Critique my proposed Stout recipe... Please.

[bmckee56]

So I have the ingredients assembled and my plan is to proceed on Tuesday morning with the following recipe. Unless of course someone sees faults or problems with my design.

SLC American Stout

Style = American Stout

Type: All Grain
Date: 09/07/2009
Batch Size: 5.5 gal
Brewer: Bmckee56
Boil Size: 6.5 gal
Boil Time: 60 min Equipment: Brew Pot (10gal) and Igloo/Gott Cooler (5 Gal)
Taste Rating(out of 50): 35.0 Brewhouse Efficiency: 75.00

Ingredients

Amount Item Type % or IBU

3.00 lb Dark Dry Extract (17.5 SRM) Dry Extract 26.28 %(Late extract boil for 30 min.)
4.00 lb Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 35.04 %
0.90 lb Barley, Flaked (1.7 SRM) Grain 7.88 %
0.90 lb Oats, Flaked (1.0 SRM) Grain 7.88 %
0.45 lb Caramel/Crystal Malt - 20L (20.0 SRM) Grain 3.97 %
0.45 lb Caramel/Crystal Malt - 60L (60.0 SRM) Grain 3.97 %
0.45 lb Caramel/Crystal Malt - 80L (80.0 SRM) Grain 3.97 %
0.45 lb Chocolate Malt (350.0 SRM) Grain 3.97 %
0.30 lb Roasted Barley (300.0 SRM) Grain 2.63 %
0.25 lb Black (Patent) Malt (500.0 SRM) Grain 2.19 %
0.25 lb Cara-Pils/Dextrine (2.0 SRM) Grain 2.19 %
1.80 oz Northern Brewer [8.50 %] (60 min) Hops 47.8 IBU
1.10 oz Williamette [4.80 %] (15 min) Hops 7.4 IBU
1 Pkgs Irish Ale (White Labs #WLP004) [Starter 750 ml] Yeast-Ale

Beer Profile

Est Original Gravity: 1.070 SG
Measured Original Gravity: 1.010 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.019 SG
Measured Final Gravity: 1.005 SG
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 6.62 %
Bitterness: 55.2 IBU
Est Color: 35.6 SRM

Mash Profile

Mash Name: Single Infusion, Full Body, No Mash Out
Total Grain Weight: 8.41 lb
Sparge Water: 4.63 gal
Grain Temperature: 72.0 F
Sparge Temperature: 168.0 F
TunTemperature: 120.0 F
Adjust Temp for Equipment: TRUE
Mash PH: 5.4 PH

Single Infusion, Full Body, No Mash Out

Carbonation and Storage

Carbonation Type: Kegged (Forced CO2)
Volumes of CO2: 2.4
Pressure/Weight: 26.1 PSI
Keg Temperature: 68.0 F
Age for: 84.0 days
Storage Temperature: 68.0 F

I appreciate any and all comments and suggestions.

Salute!

 

[bradsul]

Between the oats, flaked barley, crystal and carapils that is going to be one chewy stout! I've used the northern brewer/willamette combination in stouts before, I really like it.

 

[bmckee56]

Between the oats, flaked barley, crystal and carapils that is going to be one chewy stout! I've used the northern brewer/willamette combination in stouts before, I really like it.

Do you think I should tone down some of the ingredients or is "Chewy" a good thing?

Salute!

 

[cellardoor]

I'm not expert by any means but personally I would at least tone down the crystal malts. 3 different types totaling about 1.5lbs is a lot and may cause a higher final gravity than you would want. Also the flavor differences on 20L, 60L and 120L will probably be lost in a beer with so much darker malts making their additions pointless. If you want a crystal addition I would keep the 60L and use about a lb for some residual sweetness.

I'm a fan of very simple grain bills and when there are too many different grains I feel that they may compete for dominance and become a muddled mess rather than a complex flavor profile. When designing a recipe each grain addition should add something distinct to the beer and compliment the other flavors.

 

[bmckee56]

So I should lose the 20L and 80L and up the 60L to 1lb. I will run this through BeerSmith to see how it re-shapes the numbers and consider it seriously.

Aside from the changes above, do the other ingredients look good for an American Stout?

I will use BeerGas (70/30 mixture) for serving, when carbonation is complete. Are American Stouts typically served with BeerGas though a stout faucet?

Again, thanks for all input.

Salute!

 

[cellardoor]

If you are going to use 1 crystal malt, use whatever lovibond flavor profile you like the best. I gave 60L as an example because its my favorite. The color of crystal doesn't matter much since the dark grains will contribute most of the color. I would consider eliminating the flaked barley and upping the flaked oats. They do similar things in a beer so no need to use both unless you have a specific reason. Once again simple grainbills is something I like in beer.

For the nitro it is all preference. Since from the grain bill you want a nice creamy silky stout I think a nitro and stout faucet would aid in that mouthfeel and compliment nicely. If you already have the setup I would use it. If not no need to get one just for this beer. I think it will be wonderful whatever way it is served.

 

[StoutFan]

I agree about the barley/oats and the crystals, "too many spices and the whole dish tastes like lawrys." Is the black dehusked? You might get a bitter astringency bite from the husks, IMHO. And I would also go with a pale extract, and draw color and flavor from your grains. Just my 2¢.......
EDIT->: A creamer faucet with the BeerGas works well for me, not No2 and a stout faucet, but ten times cheaper.

 

[bmckee56]

If you are going to use 1 crystal use whatever lovibond flavor profile you like the best. I gave 60L as an example because its my favorite. I would consider eliminating the flaked barley and upping the flaked oats. They do similar things in a beer so no need to use both unless you have a specific reason. Once again simple grainbills is something I like in beer.

For the nitro it is all preference. Since from the grain bill you want a nice creamy silky stout I think a nitro and stout faucet would aid in that mouthfeel and compliment nicely. If you already have the setup I would use it. If not no need to get one just for this beer. I think it will be wonderful whatever way it is served.

So oats and barley do similar things. Ok...... Would I need to adjust the oats by the same amount eliminated by the barley? If Yes, then I may just forgo that change as I already have the grain at home and do not have additional amounts of either for this recipe.

As for the nitro set-up, I do have it all and will use it for this recipe. I used 20psi for dispensing my last Stout (Imperial), is this a typical pressure to use when dispensing such brews.

Salute!

 

[cellardoor]

And I would also go with a pale extract, and draw color and flavor from your grains.

Good point that I forgot to mention. The darker extract already has crystal malts in it this lending residual sweetness already. You have enough specialty grains to make this stout color territory without using colored extract.

 

[bradsul]

As others have suggested I would drop the crystals for a single addition. If you wanted to have a little bit of 'what is that subtle flavour?' you could go for a half pound of 120L. I've found it works quite well.

I'd probably go for either the oats or the flaked barley. Both add excellent qualities to a stout but I think they'd both shine a lot brighter on their own. But that's just my opinion.

Oh and 'chewy' is a good thing in my books. But you also don't want it to be able to stand up a spoon.

 

[bmckee56]

Good point that I forgot to mention. The darker extract already has crystal malts in it this lending residual sweetness already. You have enough specialty grains to make this stout color territory without using colored extract.

Understood, but I have the 3lbs of dark extract available and I am moving away from extract additions. So I was trying to use this up as best I could. I only have the 4lbs of Pale Malt at this time. Hence the grain bill and recipe originally presented.

The Black Patent is not de-husked. I had it crushed at the LHBS for a different brew and vacuum sealed it after it's inital use. Would reducing the amount lessen the astrigency? I assume it would also change the overall color if it were reduced, correct?

I see the point regarding Lawrys seasoning, but again, I was looking to use up what items I had sitting in my inventory, so I could go out and acquire new ingredients.

Salute!

 

[cellardoor]

Well now that know this is a kitchen sink brew that makes things different. We've all made a beer using up the bits and pieces we have laying around. Thats like my current beer biere de garde. I just threw a bunch of things I had together and used a washed biere de garde yeast I've had in my fridge since last October. Hence the name; 'Biere de Garde?'

In that case use the dark extract to get rid of it and use both the flaked oats and barley to use them up. Together they are about 15% of a grain bill which is acceptable. I would then just change the crystal malt to the one addition of your choice.

 

[StoutFan]

Using less would change the flavor and color, but to me it's a matter of preference I guess. Some people look for the bite in the loaded stouts. I like the color it adds, and use the dehusked for that. All in all, drop to one crystal, and have at it! Tell us how it pans out, and if its incredible, sign me up for doing a batch. I happen to like stouts........

 

[bradsul]

If it's a kitchen sink recipe then just have at it! You can always blend it with something else down the line if it's too over the top.

 

[Bob]

Good heavens. How shockingly complicated!

As the others have noted, if it's supposed to be a kitchen-sink brew, have at it. Otherwise, tone it down - WAY down. Pale, flaked, roasted. 70/20/10%. Done.

Since you're using Dark extract, get rid of all the Crystal. All of it, including the CaraPils.

I don't know of a single dark extract that doesn't use a large proportion of Crystal malts in the extract mash. Usually dark extracts use Black Patent malt for coloring - I know Briess and Muntons do. Briess dark extract contains Pale, 60L Crystal, Munich and Black Patent. It's already full-bodied and flavored.

Also delete the Black Patent. See above. Adding more is overkill. Too much BP and you end up with Baltic Porter, not Stout. In fact, I'd increase the Roasted Barley quota to at least a half-pound.

I like your hops schedule.

Your yeast strain is asking for trouble. Irish Ale yeasts are not appropriate for Stout. They are too underattenuative for Stout. Instead, select a clean-fermenting, attenuative strain - 1056, S05, Notty, all will get you where you need to go. You'll need an attenuative strain to get past the unfermentable-laden extract wort.

Good luck!

Bob

 

[bmckee56]

OK..... I brewed today and this is the final grain bill with extract and hops.

Amount Item Type

4.00 lb Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain
1.00 lb Oats, Flaked (1.0 SRM) Grain
0.90 lb Caramel/Crystal Malt - 60L (60.0 SRM) Grain
0.50 lb Barley, Flaked (1.7 SRM) Grain
0.50 lb Cara-Pils/Dextrine (2.0 SRM) Grain
0.50 lb Chocolate Malt (338.0 SRM) Grain
0.50 lb Roasted Barley (525.0 SRM) Grain

Boil Amount Item Type

60 min 3.00 lb Dark Dry Extract (17.5 SRM) Dry Extract
45 min 2.00 oz Northern Brewer [8.50 %] (45 min) Hops
15 min 1.00 oz Williamette [4.60 %] (15 min) Hops

I ended up with an O.G. after the boil of 1.062. A bit under what BeerSmith predicted. Based upon all my numbers, I had an efficiency of 71.5% which is good (I hope) considering it is only my 4th AG batch.

Amount Item Type

1 Pkgs Irish Ale (White Labs #WLP004) [Starter 1 quartl] Yeast-Ale

Estimated color is 37.4 and the bitterness IBU's is 57.5 per Beer Smith.

The wort was cooled to 75 degrees and I had to re-rack due to the amount of trub in the initial transfer. I have pitched the yeast and hope to H@ll my batch takes off with no problems or potential infection due to the second rack.

So any way, I toned it down a bit, but did use the oats and barley and the crystal 60L against the advice of a few members. I hope I will not regret that, but what the heck. It's my kitchen sink Stout and only time will tell, right!

Additional questions please.

Is it necessary to "secondary" this Stout prior to kegging and aging?

I intend to age it 3 months from the time it goes into the keg.

What type of pressure (CO2), if any should, I put on the keg during aging?

Thanks for all the suggestions and input. I really appreciate it.

Salute!

 

[StoutFan]

Is it necessary to "secondary" this Stout prior to kegging and aging?

I intend to age it 3 months from the time it goes into the keg.

What type of pressure (CO2), if any should, I put on the keg during aging?

Thanks for all the suggestions and input. I really appreciate it.

Salute!

1: In my experience, no. Clarity is not such an issue with a beer you can't see through. If you have already done a second racking, most of the trub and junk from the boil is gone. If you plan to age it in the keg, thats almost like a secondary(well, I guess it IS the secondary). It will be off the yeast cake and away from autolysis in the keg.
2: Aging it should make the beer more refined and less "green". More time for the flavors to really develop and shine.
3: I would not age it under any more pressure than is necessary. Dissolved Co2 might not let it get the "aged before carbed" quality your looking for.
4: And 71% is not too bad for a 4th time.
Just my 2¢
EDIT-> And if your sanitizing is well controlled, then I would not worry about the second racking.

 

[bmckee56]

Thanks StoutFan...... I checked on the primary activity this morning and it was really rocking in the air lock. My fermentation took off in less than 2 hours. I had slight bubbling going on after that period of time and covered the primary with a carboy box inverted with the bottom cut open so the airlock would be exposed. Well, nothing left to do now but wait for the fermentation process to do its thing and maybe plan my next brew day.

I appreciate all the help.

Salute!

1: In my experience, no. Clarity is not such an issue with a beer you can't see through. If you have already done a second racking, most of the trub and junk from the boil is gone. If you plan to age it in the keg, thats almost like a secondary(well, I guess it IS the secondary). It will be off the yeast cake and away from autolysis in the keg.
2: Aging it should make the beer more refined and less "green". More time for the flavors to really develop and shine.
3: I would not age it under any more pressure than is necessary. Dissolved Co2 might not let it get the "aged before carbed" quality your looking for.
4: And 71% is not too bad for a 4th time.
Just my 2¢
EDIT-> And if your sanitizing is well controlled, then I would not worry about the second racking.