Creature Comforts Tropicalia Clone

[gbarron]

There appears to be a huge difference in color between the two of those beers in the picture you posted. Not sure many people would agree that it looks only a "little" darker.

I think the lighting, glassware, and lack of head (it sat out awhile) on the real thing are distorting the color difference between the two in the picture. The homebrew is noticeably darker, yes, but not by as large a margin as one might conclude from the photo. Keep in mind also that I used red wheat instead of white in this instance.

 

[mbbransc]

Glad you enjoyed it.

I know for a fact that 1968 is their house yeast, so that would be a good one to use here. Haven't really asked for any info about Trop though. They have changed a few things process wise recently to get the beer to market fresher. I think its around 3 weeks from brewing to store now. They likely use a water profile more similar to some of the IPA brewers in the NE than those out west.

I believe they recently bought a centrifuge as well.

 

[burninator]

Here is a side by side. The homebrew is a little darker. Hop aroma and bitterness are much higher in the homebrew, but similar aromas/flavors. Just more intense. The real thing is more restrained in terms of hop flavor, aroma, and bitterness. As I said before, I would cut back on hopbursting and go with a traditional hop schedule on a re-brew. Maybe even throw in some Nelson in lieu of some of the Galaxy.View attachment 304708

Looks nice. Is that a Monday Night glass?

 

[tadkays]

I substituted Mosaic for Galaxy and Pacman yeast for London ESB.
Malt: Pale, Munich, Wheat, C-20
Hops: Citra, Centennial, Mosaic
65 IBU hopburst & hopstand
1.060 OG
Hoping to get 1.012 or below.
#cravecuriosity

I just kegged mine. 1.060 to 1.011. It's not carbonated yet, but initial observations are that it is overly bread-crusty, so I plan to decrease the Munich a bit. I like the hop flavor though, so I think that's going in the right direction with the tropical fruit/citrus and the combination of Citra, Centennial, and Mosaic worked well, though I know they use Galaxy instead of Mosaic. The wheat may be a little too aggressive as well, so I might lower or drop it and replace it with Carapils. I used Rogue Pacman yeast and that is quickly becoming my favorite for American Ales. I haven't used London ESB in an IPA yet.

I hope to score a 6-pack of the real deal this weekend and will be able to do a side-by-side comparison soon.

 

[atom]

guys from CC were on the the session recently...

http://www.thebrewingnetwork.com/the-session-creature-comforts-brewing-co/

 

[tadkays]

Mine is nearly carbonated and it tastes real good.
I used Rahr 2-row instead of pilsner at 78%, Munich at 10%, Wheat at 8%, and C-20 at 4%. Apollo to bitter, then Mosaic instead of Galaxy, Citra, and Centennial with hop burst and double dry hop. I used Pacman yeast instead of their Fullers strain. I like where this recipe is headed. Next time I will try pilsner malt, Galaxy, and their London ESB yeast.

 

[BamaPhil]

So here's my attempt. I used the feedback from here for the grain bill and yeast. I broke down what they said on the podcast to get close to the hop schedule (rounding a bit, because I hate having leftover hops). I used RO water and Bru'n water for my water chemistry (this was my first time manipulating the water).

I will say it's damn good after 2 weeks in the bottle. It may have turned out a bit too bitter, but I'm still definitely happy with my decision to forgo any crystal malt. Aroma is there but it's been so long since I've had the real thing it's hard to say much else. Anybody have a few cans of Trop in the Cumming or Alpharetta area and want to get together for a tasting after Christmas?!

(Sorry for the less than formal recipe format. The version I have in Brewer's Friend isn't exactly what got brewed so this is just from my notebook)

Tropicalia clone

Water: Treated RO: 0.5 gram/gallon each of gypsum and calcium chloride (mash and sparge treated equally)
68 ppm Ca
75 ppm SO4
68 ppm Cl

Fermentables:
12 lbs German Pilsner
2.5 lbs Light Munich
.5 lbs Flaked wheat

Mash:
148F, 60 minutes, 1.5 thickness, no mashout, stirred every 20 mins

Boil:
:60 1.0 oz Warrior
:10 Whirlfloc
Whirlpool: 1.25 oz each Centennial & Citra, .5 oz Galaxy
Begin at flameout, chill to 170F, then hold temp 15 mins

Yeast: WLP002, 2.5L starter, .75 pitch rate

OG: 1.069
FG: 1.015 (7.1%)
IBU: 55-75 (depending on hopstand utilization)
SRM: 6

Primary: 60 secs O2. Pitched 66. 67-68 2 days. 69-70 days 3-6. Dry hopped day 9 through day 19. 69F day 10-14. Crashed to 45 over days 14-19.
Dry hop: 1.75 oz each Centennial & Citra, .5 oz Galaxy

 

[BamaPhil]

Tropicalia clone

Water: Treated RO: 0.5 gram/gallon each of gypsum and calcium chloride (mash and sparge treated equally)
68 ppm Ca
75 ppm SO4
68 ppm Cl

Fermentables:
12 lbs German Pilsner
2.5 lbs Light Munich
.5 lbs Flaked wheat

Mash:
148F, 60 minutes, 1.5 thickness, no mashout, stirred every 20 mins

Boil:
:60 1.0 oz Warrior
:10 Whirlfloc
Whirlpool: 1.25 oz each Centennial & Citra, .5 oz Galaxy
Begin at flameout, chill to 170F, then hold temp 15 mins

Yeast: WLP002, 2.5L starter, .75 pitch rate

OG: 1.069
FG: 1.015 (7.1%)
IBU: 55-75 (depending on hopstand utilization)
SRM: 6

Primary: 60 secs O2. Pitched 66. 67-68 2 days. 69-70 days 3-6. Dry hopped day 9 through day 19. 69F day 10-14. Crashed to 45 over days 14-19.
Dry hop: 1.75 oz each Centennial & Citra, .5 oz Galaxy

Alright I went to Athens yesterday to visit Creature Comforts and scored a 6 pack on the way out of town. Here's my notes:

Appearance: Real trop is decidedly lighter in color, but some of that may be attributed to some chill haze in the HB version. Head and lacing were similar.

Aroma: I'm not very good at picking out individual hop aromas, but citra is one I feel I can pick out. Real trop has decidedly more "citra" aroma, while my version is a bit fruitier and sweeter.

Taste: Real trop has a more citrusy flavor and softer bitterness, my version has a little more residual sweetness and sharper bitterness.

Mouthfeel: Very comparable, with my version perhaps being a bit "fuller."

When I do it again, I'll drop the munich a good bit. I might also up the amount of citra a bit, even though that would be contrary to what they said about the hop bill in the podcast.

 

[BigAlex]

Any word on progress of a clone?

 

[clint404]

So here's my attempt. I used the feedback from here for the grain bill and yeast. I broke down what they said on the podcast to get close to the hop schedule (rounding a bit, because I hate having leftover hops). I used RO water and Bru'n water for my water chemistry (this was my first time manipulating the water).

I will say it's damn good after 2 weeks in the bottle. It may have turned out a bit too bitter, but I'm still definitely happy with my decision to forgo any crystal malt. Aroma is there but it's been so long since I've had the real thing it's hard to say much else. Anybody have a few cans of Trop in the Cumming or Alpharetta area and want to get together for a tasting after Christmas?!

(Sorry for the less than formal recipe format. The version I have in Brewer's Friend isn't exactly what got brewed so this is just from my notebook)

Tropicalia clone

Water: Treated RO: 0.5 gram/gallon each of gypsum and calcium chloride (mash and sparge treated equally)
68 ppm Ca
75 ppm SO4
68 ppm Cl

Fermentables:
12 lbs German Pilsner
2.5 lbs Light Munich
.5 lbs Flaked wheat

Mash:
148F, 60 minutes, 1.5 thickness, no mashout, stirred every 20 mins

Boil:
:60 1.0 oz Warrior
:10 Whirlfloc
Whirlpool: 1.25 oz each Centennial & Citra, .5 oz Galaxy
Begin at flameout, chill to 170F, then hold temp 15 mins

Yeast: WLP002, 2.5L starter, .75 pitch rate

OG: 1.069
FG: 1.015 (7.1%)
IBU: 55-75 (depending on hopstand utilization)
SRM: 6

Primary: 60 secs O2. Pitched 66. 67-68 2 days. 69-70 days 3-6. Dry hopped day 9 through day 19. 69F day 10-14. Crashed to 45 over days 14-19.
Dry hop: 1.75 oz each Centennial & Citra, .5 oz Galaxy

Thanks for breaking down those ratios from the podcast

Do you think adding some cara-pils would help with the mouth feel a little bit?

Heres what i built in brewsmith2 for my 3.80 gallon brew (i cant boil more than 5 gallons)...

Tropiclonia

M.I.A.B. (Mash in a bag in a cooler) - 65-70 efficiency
Mash @ 150f - 60mins
Batch Sparge @ 170f - 10mins

1tbsp - PH 5.2
7lbs Pale 2 row - 78.9%
12oz Crystal 20 - 8.5%
12oz Cara-Pils - 8.5%
6oz Flaked Wheat - 4.2%

Boil
60mins

.5oz Warrior - 60mins - 31.5ibus
.2tsp Irish Moss - 10mins

Hopstand/Steep
Adding the hops just after flameout and going to ice bath and slow cool for 30mins-45mins before i whirlpool and transfer to a cold kettle to continue cooling.

.75oz Centennial - Steep/Whirlpool- 12.1ibus
.75oz Citra - Steep/Whirlpool- 14.5ibus
.25oz Galaxy Steep/Whirlpool- 5.7ibus

Fermentation

1 Smack Pack 1968 London ESB

4.3 gallons into my carboy for 2wks at 68-70f

Dryhopin the secondary for 3-4 days with the same amount of steeping hops at the 1 week mark.

Let me know what you think.

I see your in alpharetta. Thats not to far away from Dublin so maybe ill send you one

 

[skeezerpleezer]

Thanks for breaking down those ratios from the podcast



Do you think adding some cara-pils would help with the mouth feel a little bit?



Heres what i built in brewsmith2 for my 3.80 gallon brew (i cant boil more than 5 gallons)...



Tropiclonia



M.I.A.B. (Mash in a bag in a cooler) - 65-70 efficiency

Mash @ 150f - 60mins

Batch Sparge @ 170f - 10mins



1tbsp - PH 5.2

7lbs Pale 2 row - 78.9%

12oz Crystal 20 - 8.5%

12oz Cara-Pils - 8.5%

6oz Flaked Wheat - 4.2%



Boil

60mins



.5oz Warrior - 60mins - 31.5ibus

.2tsp Irish Moss - 10mins



Hopstand/Steep

Adding the hops just after flameout and going to ice bath and slow cool for 30mins-45mins before i whirlpool and transfer to a cold kettle to continue cooling.



.75oz Centennial - Steep/Whirlpool- 12.1ibus

.75oz Citra - Steep/Whirlpool- 14.5ibus

.25oz Galaxy Steep/Whirlpool- 5.7ibus



Fermentation



1 Smack Pack 1968 London ESB



4.3 gallons into my carboy for 2wks at 68-70f



Dryhopin the secondary for 3-4 days with the same amount of steeping hops at the 1 week mark.



Let me know what you think.



I see your in alpharetta. Thats not to far away from Dublin so maybe ill send you one

I would say decrease crystal malts by about 13-14% and increase the late hops.

 

[clint404]

I emailed Blake at CC today and he confirmed that both crystal and wheat are in the beer at small amounts.

Beer smith gives those IBU values for the hops at the end based on a 30min steep time. The water will be 175-200 degrees for at least 30mins so that should impart the flavor and aroma I'm looking for. Tropicalia is 65ibus.

With the ESB and keg carbonation this beer will be ready to drink in 2.5-3weeks and if something needs to change it will. This is just my jumping off point.

 

[skeezerpleezer]

I emailed Blake at CC today and he confirmed that both crystal and wheat are in the beer at small amounts.



Beer smith gives those IBU values for the hops at the end based on a 30min steep time. The water will be 175-200 degrees for at least 30mins so that should impart the flavor and aroma I'm looking for. Tropicalia is 65ibus.



With the ESB and keg carbonation this beer will be ready to drink in 2.5-3weeks and if something needs to change it will. This is just my jumping off point.

I don't think you'd get those IBUs from the whirlpool/steeping hops, but I could be wrong. Trop isn't really bitter anyway, so may be fine. 1.75oz is pretty light for flameout/whirlpool IMO, I'd at least double that, if not more.

17% isn't a small amount of crystal malts, that's why I said I'd scale that back in my last post.

 

[clint404]

The cara pils is there for body. It's barely a crystal malt at all.

I'm pretty sure putting in those high alpha hops at near boiling for 30mins is gonna bring the IBUs up to the 60+ I'm looking for. The warrior gives it 30 alone.

As I said Tropicalia is a 65 IBU beer and creature comforts do one bittering hop and whirlpool and dry hops.

BTW this isn't a 5 gallon batch. The boil is 5.2g and bottling is just under 4g.

 

[skeezerpleezer]

The cara pils is there for body. It's barely a crystal malt at all.

I'm pretty sure putting in those high alpha hops at near boiling for 30mins is gonna bring the IBUs up to the 60+ I'm looking for. The warrior gives it 30 alone.

As I said Tropicalia is a 65 IBU beer and creature comforts do one bittering hop and whirlpool and dry hops.

BTW this isn't a 5 gallon batch. The boil is 5.2g and bottling is just under 4g.

You can certainly do as you wish; I'm sure it will make a good beer. I was just providing some of my thoughts based on the regular conversations that I have with Blake about brewing (he's a friend of mine)

 

[mbbransc]

Blake's very approachable as I've reached out to him a couple times working on a Trop recipe.

I'm brewing another Trop-ish beer on MAR12. I'm actually going to try (2) whirlpools; one at 170° and another at 140°. 3oz in the first and 6 oz in the second (10gal batch). I'm also throwing in a small 20m addition and warrior to bitter. Three separate dry hops; first as fermentation is finishing (around day 5), a second will be done with a pump for recirculation and then a third in the keg (2.5oz, 10oz, 4oz respectively). Swapped centennial for columbus and sticking with galaxy and citra for the rest.

 

[clint404]

I actually made a decision to not dry hop but instead do the same thing with 180f whirlpool addition and 140f whirlpool addition in equal parts.

 

[Doctor_M]

I actually made a decision to not dry hop but instead do the same thing with 180f whirlpool addition and 140f whirlpool addition in equal parts.

Why?

I've only had this beer one time (matter of fact it was @skeezerpleezer who gave it to me during DLD weekend) but I just can't see this beer not being dry hopped.

 

[skeezerpleezer]

It's definitely dry hopped.

 

[clint404]

Getting hop oils in before you rack to primary or during dry hop. Basically the same thing if your below isomerisation (sp) temp. Maybe up the amount on the -140f whirlpool...

 

[skeezerpleezer]

Getting hop oils in before you rack to primary or during dry hop. Basically the same thing if your below isomerisation (sp) temp. Maybe up the amount on the -140f whirlpool...

So fermentation doesn't have any effect? Seems like if a 140f whirlpool provided the same effect as dry-hopping then breweries would just do that and avoid the time and trouble of dry hopping post fermentation, sometimes multiple dry-hopping stages.

 

[Doctor_M]

Getting hop oils in before you rack to primary or during dry hop. Basically the same thing if your below isomerisation (sp) temp. Maybe up the amount on the -140f whirlpool...

No its not the same. You blow off aromatics during active fermentation. Yes I know certain well respected brewers add their First dry hop addition when primary fermentation is drawing near. I've spoken with them one on one. That's not the same as what your talking about doing.

I'm sure your beer may taste good but Tropacalia is definitely dry hopped going on nose from the can alone.

 

[clint404]

Cool. Thanks for the info guys. I may dry hop after all. Maybe I'll whirlpool addition around 150-160.

 

[Pumblechook]

Just wanted to jump in and offer a few things I learned after talking to one of the brewers.

The malt bill and yeast mentioned here are correct - CC uses pilsner as a base malt in all their beers, and Tropicalia in particular is just pilsner and a small amount of crystal and wheat. I could've sworn he said White Labs yeast (WLP013 maybe?) as their house strain, but it is definitely an ESB/London ale yeast.

As far as hops, Galaxy, Centennial, and Citra are used in BOTH the boil and dry hop. I didn't get the exact schedule, but judging by the aroma I'd guess Citra is the late addition in both the boil and dry hop. I'm going to try a clone with Galaxy as FWH, Centennial at flameout, and Citra in the whirlpool, with the same dry hopping order.

 

[skibb]

CCB is on an episode of The Session and they give quite a few details out about this beer. Like lb/bbl hops etc.

http://www.thebrewingnetwork.com/the-session-creature-comforts-brewing-co/

 

[howephillip]

This is what info could get from Blake. I know it's vague but at least it gives you an idea of where to start.

60-65 IBU
6.6% ABV

Citra
Centennial
Galaxy - Just a little
Apollo - Small Bittering addition
Ratios are about the same from Whirlpool to Dry Hop

Amount for a Batch:
~4oz per 5gal Dry Hop
~3.2oz per 5gal Whirlpool

Grain:
Pilsner
Crystal 40
Wheat

Yeast:
1968

 

[Pumblechook]

Interesting! So with the exception of the small Apollo bittering addition, are the hops just whirlpool and dry? I wouldn't be surprised - Tropicalia has a very smooth bitterness.

Here is the recipe I'm going to try:

Estimated OG: 1.068 SG
Estimated Color: 8.2 SRM
Estimated IBU: 61.7 IBUs

12 lbs 8.0 oz Pilsner (2 Row) Ger (2.0 SRM) Grain 1 89.3 %
1 lbs Caramel/Crystal Malt - 40L (40.0 SRM) Grain 2 7.1 %
8.0 oz White Wheat Malt (2.4 SRM) Grain 3 3.6 %
0.30 oz Apollo [17.00 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 4 16.7 IBUs
1.50 oz Centennial [10.00 %] - Steep/Whirlpool Hop 5 18.9 IBUs
1.50 oz Citra [12.00 %] - Steep/Whirlpool 30.0 Hop 6 22.6 IBUs
0.20 oz Galaxy [14.00 %] - Steep/Whirlpool 30.0 Hop 7 3.5 IBUs
1.0 pkg London ESB Ale (Wyeast Labs #1968) [124. Yeast 8 -
1.75 oz Centennial [10.00 %] - Dry Hop 5.0 Days Hop 9 0.0 IBUs
1.75 oz Citra [12.00 %] - Dry Hop 5.0 Days Hop 10 0.0 IBUs
0.50 oz Galaxy [14.00 %] - Dry Hop 5.0 Days Hop 11 0.0 IBUs

 

[skeezerpleezer]

Interesting! So with the exception of the small Apollo bittering addition, are the hops just whirlpool and dry? I wouldn't be surprised - Tropicalia has a very smooth bitterness.

Here is the recipe I'm going to try:

Estimated OG: 1.068 SG
Estimated Color: 8.2 SRM
Estimated IBU: 61.7 IBUs

12 lbs 8.0 oz Pilsner (2 Row) Ger (2.0 SRM) Grain 1 89.3 %
1 lbs Caramel/Crystal Malt - 40L (40.0 SRM) Grain 2 7.1 %
8.0 oz White Wheat Malt (2.4 SRM) Grain 3 3.6 %
0.30 oz Apollo [17.00 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 4 16.7 IBUs
1.50 oz Centennial [10.00 %] - Steep/Whirlpool Hop 5 18.9 IBUs
1.50 oz Citra [12.00 %] - Steep/Whirlpool 30.0 Hop 6 22.6 IBUs
0.20 oz Galaxy [14.00 %] - Steep/Whirlpool 30.0 Hop 7 3.5 IBUs
1.0 pkg London ESB Ale (Wyeast Labs #1968) [124. Yeast 8 -
1.75 oz Centennial [10.00 %] - Dry Hop 5.0 Days Hop 9 0.0 IBUs
1.75 oz Citra [12.00 %] - Dry Hop 5.0 Days Hop 10 0.0 IBUs
0.50 oz Galaxy [14.00 %] - Dry Hop 5.0 Days Hop 11 0.0 IBUs

I would scale that c40 back to a half pound or less.

 

[Doctor_M]

I would scale that c40 back to a half pound or less.

Agreed. A pound is wayyyy to much.

Anyone know if Creature comforts is on a direct fire system or do they have a boiler?

Edited to add: I forgot how dark tropicalia is. A pound is still too much but as Heath mentioned start with a half pound or a bit less.

 

[skeezerpleezer]

Agreed. A pound is wayyyy to much.

Anyone know if Creature comforts is on a direct fire system or do they have a boiler?

Edited to add: I forgot how dark tropicalia is. A pound is still too much but as Heath mentioned start with a half pound or a bit less.

I would guess around 2.5-3% C40, then maybe some Munich to get a little more color as needed.