Creative wort chiller ideas (trying to save on ice)

[boomtown25]

I live in an apt. and when chilling, I run a hose from my kitchen sink to the balcony, where I have one copper chiller in an ice cooler with ice and water and it leads to another copper chiller submerged in the hot wort with a hose to dump the hot water from the chillers into my bathtub inside (I am on the second floor). Every time I brew I spend about $5-10 on ice alone and would love to knock this down or out. I have bounced around the idea of "altering" my chiller which goes in the cooler to fit into a one gallon bucket (I am assuming I can simply coil it smaller and tighter) and then put it in the gallon bucket and fill with water and freeze this. Essentially creating a frozen chiller for the tap water to run through before entering the chiller in the hot wort. No money spent as it is a block of ice which I froze instead of buying bags of ice which just melt in my cooler. Thoughts? Anyone tried this or something close???

 

[ong]

Hopefully you’re not adding any ice until the wort temperature starts to approach your groundwater temp? That would be difficult with this approach. One thing I’ve done is freeze 1 or 2 liter bottles of water and use them in the pre-chiller.

 

[boomtown25]

I was not being clear enough. I have a "pre-chiller cooler full of ice around a copper coil chiller that I run water through. When the tap water leaves that chiller (which is submerged in the cold ice water) it then travels via a short hose into another copper coil chiller which is submerged in the boiling wort. Kitchen sink tap----hose----chiller in ice cooler----hose-----chiller in wort----hose------empties into bathtub.

 

[IslandLizard]

Hopefully you’re not adding any ice until the wort temperature starts to approach your groundwater temp?

This, or you're wasting lots of ice (and money)! ^

One thing I’ve done is freeze 1 or 2 liter bottles of water and use them in the pre-chiller.

Ice cube are a lot smaller than bottles, so have a much larger surface, and chill the prechiller's water faster. I use a combination of ice cubes and either ice packs or (smaller) pint size bottles. If the temperature of the water coming out of the chiller is lower than your ground water, you're better of recirculating back into the pre-chiller bucket.

I have a "pre-chiller cooler full of ice around a copper coil chiller that I run water through.

Freezing the bucket full of water with the coil in it will not provide you with a good chilling solution. You need contact with the ice cold water, not the ice itself. Good motion in the surrounding ice water speeds up the heat exchange.

 

[SanPancho]

definitely start with tap water as you're using your ice too early. once it gets down to like 100-110-120F or so you're now getting closer to ground water temp and the chilling will slow- cue the ice bath.

you have to decide which variable you want to maximize- final temp, time, or cost.

all ice water is best on temp/time, worst on cost.

tap water is best on cost, worst on time/temp. (unless you live in a frigid zone)

tap first, then ice bath is generally the happy medium for most folks.

 

[El Nino]

I brew in an apartment also, and the tap water here is pretty warm (probably mid to high 70's).

What I do is cool the wort with the wort chiller / tap water for about 25 mins, it should take the temps down to the high-mid 80s. From there I give it the ice bath in the sink, using 3 frozen gallon water jugs. Leaving it there for 90 mins takes the temp down to the mid 60's, from there i transfer to carboy and pitch, done.

Reuse plastic bottles and freeze em in your freezer to save your money from buying ice cubes. And like others said, use the tap water to take the temp down initially, then use ice for when the temp is at a place where tap water won't bring it down much.

 

[FunkedOut]

I have a large cooler (150qt) that I fill with frozen water bottles.
The night before I brew, I fill that cooler with water.
By the time I brew, that water is ice cold and the bottle are partially frozen.
I use a small pump with low flow to pump that water through my immersion chiller.

I always start with the hose (90*F ground water) at full pressure. I fill two 5-gallon buckets and the wort is down to 100*F.
I then switch to the pump/cooler and fill one more 5-gallon bucket. Wort is about 75*F at that point.
I then put the output hose of the chiller into the opposite end of the cooler and recirculate until I am a few degrees below pitching temp.
I can usually get to 50*F in about 15-20 minutes. 65*F in 5-10 minutes.

I keep a chugger pump whirlpooling the kettle during this entire time and occasionally swirl the chiller too.

I can get two back-to-back ales, no problem. The second back-to-back lager usually takes 30 minutes to get down to ~55*F and will not get any colder.
Bottles go back in the freezer when I'm done.
Plenty of hot clean up water sitting around.

 

[LittleRiver]

...Every time I brew I spend about $5-10 on ice alone and would love to knock this down or out...

If you haven't already done so, shop around for ice. Around here the convenience store price on 20lb of ice is $6+, but just down the road I get the same amount of ice for $2+ at a discount grocery store.

I have bounced around the idea of "altering" my chiller which goes in the cooler to fit into a one gallon bucket (I am assuming I can simply coil it smaller and tighter) and then put it in the gallon bucket and fill with water and freeze this.

That will save you some coin, but you'll probably take a hit on your cooling. Heat transfer is dependent on the surface area of the ice. In a solid block there is going to be less ice surface area to cool the water that will melt and surround the coil. You'll get better heat transfer with cube or crushed ice.

I think recirculation makes the best use of the cooling capacity of ice, and is efficient on water usage. It requires the use of a pump, but you don't need an expensive hot wort pump. An inexpensive water transfer pump will work just fine.

Also look into no chill, that could work well for you, dependent on the style of beer you are brewing.

 

[CarolinaMatt]

I have a large cooler (150qt) that I fill with frozen water bottles.
The night before I brew, I fill that cooler with water.
By the time I brew, that water is ice cold and the bottle are partially frozen.
I use a small pump with low flow to pump that water through my immersion chiller.

I always start with the hose (90*F ground water) at full pressure. I fill two 5-gallon buckets and the wort is down to 100*F.
I then switch to the pump/cooler and fill one more 5-gallon bucket. Wort is about 75*F at that point.
I then put the output hose of the chiller into the opposite end of the cooler and recirculate until I am a few degrees below pitching temp.
I can usually get to 50*F in about 15-20 minutes. 65*F in 5-10 minutes.

I keep a chugger pump whirlpooling the kettle during this entire time and occasionally swirl the chiller too.

I can get two back-to-back ales, no problem. The second back-to-back lager usually takes 30 minutes to get down to ~55*F and will not get any colder.
Bottles go back in the freezer when I'm done.
Plenty of hot clean up water sitting around.

Would you happen to have any photos of this setup? I need to mimic this as I'm preparing to brew a 10 gallon batch of oktoberfest and I do not want a 90-120 minute cooling session

 

[boomtown25]

Thank you everyone! Great advice. I never considered the tap water until down to around 100 before adding the ice. My tap water is around 70 degrees but now thinking about it makes a lot of sense (still colder than boiling temp). I also appreciate the step by step protocol that Funkedout provided. I am going to look into trying to copy this. Finally, the answers about heat exchange and water vs. ice is what I needed to hear as well. Love this website!

 

[ba-brewer]

When I brew lagers (5gal batch) I run tap tap water through my immersion chiller to get the temp down to the 70s. Then using a small pump I pump ice water thru the chiller and I can get the temp down to low the 50s. I think my chiller is only 3/8" tubing.

I use a pump like this one or one of the small tan solar pumps.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00JWJIC0K/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

I start with just enough water in the bucket to circulate thru the loop then add blocks of ice to the bucket and use the return water to melt the ice blocks. My ice blocks are made in 48oz round glad containers which fit into a 2gal bucket. 3 rounds gets me down about 30 degrees.

Someone posted a formula once and I believe it takes about 3.5lbs of ice to chill 6gal of wort 10 degrees F.

 

[FunkedOut]

Would you happen to have any photos of this setup? I need to mimic this as I'm preparing to brew a 10 gallon batch of oktoberfest and I do not want a 90-120 minute cooling session

Here’s the pump (24V)
https://www.ebay.com/itm/800L-H-5m-DC-12V-24V-Solar-Brushless-Motor-Water-Circulation-Water-Pump/222645665104?hash=item33d6b73d50:m:mNVdbpkhWjHMNXTAN9AfHHg&var=521495052091&_sop=15&_sacat=115710&_nkw=solar+pump&_from=R40&rt=nc

Here’s the cooler:
https://www.bjs.com/product/coleman...qt--marine-cooler---white/3000000000000156073

I use 2 liter bottles that I keep frozen in my chest freezer.
It takes a bunch, 20 or so.

DIY chiller made from 50’ of 1/2 copper.
Garden hose fittings on everything.


No pics, but I’ll take some pics next brew day.


eta: whirlpool courtesy of a tangental inlet on the kettle and a chugger pump. it's an Ss brew tech 10gal BME kettle. that's probably the biggest time saver. it's like stirring non-stop.
swirling the chiller does work a bit better but only needed every few minutes to keep the output of the chiller hot.

 

[BlueHouseBrewhaus]

First of all, to save on buying ice I saved a couple of bags from when I used to buy ice and I just fill those up from my fridge ice maker over a couple of weeks and keep them in my garage freezer. I also fill a couple of plastic gallon milk jugs with water and freeze them, too. Other than the ice, I use only about 3 gal of water to cool my brew. It helps me feel less guilty about the amount of water I use.

I fill my sink about half full of water (3+/- gal) and then put the kettle (with the chiller in it) right in the sink. I have a small submersible pump that goes in the sink to pump the sink water through the chiller. The waste hose out of the chiller goes right back into the sink. I cut the plastic off the jugs and start with the giant "jug cubes" in the sink as the pump circulates the water out of the sink and right back into the sink. This quickly gets the wort below 120F. As the ice melts, I siphon a little water out of the sink and add fresh ice from the ice bags. At first, the waste hose is feeding hot water back into the sink and melting the ice pretty quickly. But it only takes about 5 min to get to 120. After that, the siphon/add ice routine (with lots of stirring) gets the temp to 65F in 15-20 min total. It's a little more labor intensive but I don't have to buy any ice and I don't use as much water. Three gallons of water in the sink plus two milk jugs and two saved up 8 lb bags of ice get me from boiling to 65F in <20 min.

 

[SanPancho]

I have a large cooler (150qt) that I fill with frozen water bottles.
The night before I brew, I fill that cooler with water.
By the time I brew, that water is ice cold and the bottle are partially frozen.
I use a small pump with low flow to pump that water through my immersion chiller.

I always start with the hose (90*F ground water) at full pressure. I fill two 5-gallon buckets and the wort is down to 100*F.
I then switch to the pump/cooler and fill one more 5-gallon bucket. Wort is about 75*F at that point.
I then put the output hose of the chiller into the opposite end of the cooler and recirculate until I am a few degrees below pitching temp.
I can usually get to 50*F in about 15-20 minutes. 65*F in 5-10 minutes.

I keep a chugger pump whirlpooling the kettle during this entire time and occasionally swirl the chiller too.

I can get two back-to-back ales, no problem. The second back-to-back lager usually takes 30 minutes to get down to ~55*F and will not get any colder.
Bottles go back in the freezer when I'm done.
Plenty of hot clean up water sitting around.

Where in the hell are you to be dealing with groundwater at 90f?

 

[FunkedOut]

Where in the hell are you to be dealing with groundwater at 90f?

Florida summers

 

[SanPancho]

Holy moly.

I assume youve made friends with saison, brett and kveik yeasts? Our nano in baja saves alot of time and energy with those guys. Especially the kveik. 102f and works like a champ.

 

[homebrewer_99]

Ground water temps have always been an issue for many places.

I've learned to take ground water temperature readings before chilling. It's a good indicator of how low you can chill before needing to switch to your Plan B.

You'll never be able to reach the temp of the ground water, but at least you'll know when the cut off is so you can stop wasting water.

FYI: I use a 60' chiller and can below 70F in under 10 gallons (@14-15 gals in Summertime) in under 10 minutes. I collect the water in primary buckets. I use part of the hot water for clean up and the rest goes to the washing machine. No waste.

 

[FunkedOut]

Would you happen to have any photos of this setup? I need to mimic this as I'm preparing to brew a 10 gallon batch of oktoberfest and I do not want a 90-120 minute cooling session

tan hose is from the city supply:

this is the last step; recirculation.