Cream Ale Cream of Three Crops (Cream Ale)

[msa8967]

Did using pilsen have similar/comparable results to using the pale ale malt? (ie, was there a noticable difference?)

 

[DavesNotHere]

Has anyone tried making with beer with White labs cream ale yeast? I have been thinking of trying this with BIAB on a my stove top for a 2.5 gallon recipe.

I have made this recipe with both Safeale-05 and WhiteLabs cream ale yeast. The grain bill/recipe was exactly the same, save for the yeast. The WhiteLabs one has a noticeable cleaner taste, even during the fermentation process. However, it does take longer than the 05 dry yeast, so plan accordingly. Also, so far...appears to leave the beer a bit cloudier. I'm hoping this can be cleared up in a secondary with gelatin. Either way, this is such a good, clean, easy drinking beer, it won't really last long enough to make too much of a difference.

I'm probably going to let this run a 3-week primary instead of the 2 week, because it is taking longer. Then cold crash in a 2ndary w/ gelatin for 48 hours before kegging. Making this for a party, and will have to transport the keg, so I want it as clear as possible before transporting and shaking it all up.

 

[pkincaid]

I surfed through some of the pages, because I thought for sure someone had posted about what a decent trade off was for the flaked corn...I didn't come across it though. SO with that said, what's an alternative for flaked corn? Please and thanks guys.

 

[rossi46]

I surfed through some of the pages, because I thought for sure someone had posted about what a decent trade off was for the flaked corn...I didn't come across it though. SO with that said, what's an alternative for flaked corn? Please and thanks guys.

Some people have used corn starch and others have used corn meal which would need to be cooked. I think on page 71 you will find some info.

 

[pkincaid]

Thank you muchly! We will be brewing this next weekend!

 

[Quaker]

Currently boiling away. Slight adjustments for what I have available here. Used cracked corn and rice prepared in a rice cooker and mashed together with Chinese malted Australian grown pilsner malt instead of 2-row. Adjusted for a 90 minute boil due to the pils. Hopping with Hallertau. Still hit my numbers perfect so far. Brewing it up specifically to have a keg on hand for my boss' under developed tastes.

 

[Woodbury419]

Currently boiling away. Slight adjustments for what I have available here. Used cracked corn and rice prepared in a rice cooker and mashed together with Chinese malted Australian grown pilsner malt instead of 2-row. Adjusted for a 90 minute boil due to the pils. Hopping with Hallertau. Still hit my numbers perfect so far. Brewing it up specifically to have a keg on hand for my boss' under developed tastes.

nice! I never understood why people fear pilsner malt so much from DMS. As long as you boil vigorously w/o the lid you don't need to boil for 90 mins. I use pilsner malt as my base malt of choice for all of my beers. I love it when my brew sessions go according to plan! =D

 

[Quaker]

OK, I jinxed myself. With 25 minutes remaining, I took a volume and gravity reading. Clearly ignoring what I know and neglecting to account for temp accurately. I thought I was coming in high, so I added water to correct my gravity. Surprise, surprise that once chilled my OG is low. I'm off by exactly the amount of water I added. Never dilute while boiling. That's easily done later if needed. Second time I've done so. I need to trust my formulations which are proving themselves correct. Oh well. It'll keep my boss from getting drunk as quickly.

 

[msa8967]

Currently boiling away. Slight adjustments for what I have available here. Used cracked corn and rice prepared in a rice cooker and mashed together with Chinese malted Australian grown pilsner malt instead of 2-row. Adjusted for a 90 minute boil due to the pils. Hopping with Hallertau. Still hit my numbers perfect so far. Brewing it up specifically to have a keg on hand for my boss' under developed tastes.

Can you provide any more detail on how you used the cracked corn and rice in your rice cooker to make a cereal mash?

 

[Quaker]

I had scaled the recipe up, consistent with the volumes used by CYBI or Brewing Classic Styles. So I had 2.33 pounds cracked corn and 0.56 pounds plain white rice. I put them together in our rice cooker with about 1.5-2 L of water leaving about 1.5" of space in it. I was afraid it would swell too much and create a mess, but it didn't. It cooked on the normal setting for rice. Once cooked, I mixed it in with 6.7 lbs of pilsner and broke up the balls as much as possible. It stabilized at 122 deg F. I used Beer Alchemy to calculate my strike water temp considering a 122 F grist at roughly 12 pounds when the water was factored in. That actually enabled me to hit my mash temp on the nose. I had forgot to turn the burner on to heat the strike water until the cereal was almost done. So the rice, corn, and pilsner mixture rested in a fairly dry state at 122 for almost 30 minutes. Since it was relatively dry, I doubt it acted as a protein rest, activating the enzymes. But I really don't know for sure. I mashed for 90 minutes to give plenty of time for full conversion.

 

[msa8967]

I had scaled the recipe up, consistent with the volumes used by CYBI or Brewing Classic Styles. So I had 2.33 pounds cracked corn and 0.56 pounds plain white rice. I put them together in our rice cooker with about 1.5-2 L of water leaving about 1.5" of space in it. I was afraid it would swell too much and create a mess, but it didn't. It cooked on the normal setting for rice. Once cooked, I mixed it in with 6.7 lbs of pilsner and broke up the balls as much as possible. It stabilized at 122 deg F. I used Beer Alchemy to calculate my strike water temp considering a 122 F grist at roughly 12 pounds when the water was factored in. That actually enabled me to hit my mash temp on the nose. I had forgot to turn the burner on to heat the strike water until the cereal was almost done. So the rice, corn, and pilsner mixture rested in a fairly dry state at 122 for almost 30 minutes. Since it was relatively dry, I doubt it acted as a protein rest, activating the enzymes. But I really don't know for sure. I mashed for 90 minutes to give plenty of time for full conversion.

Thanks for sharing this. I plan to try it on my next brew of this recipe.

 

[jtakacs]

Did using pilsen have similar/comparable results to using the pale ale malt? (ie, was there a noticable difference?)

i'll let you know - brewing an imperial version of this using 8 lb. german pilsen (1.7), 2 lb corn, 2 lb rice and 1 lb. of sugar added at the end of a boil... (5 gal) - should be uber light w a kick. mashing it low and long to keep it dry.

not for me but i'm brewing it for my business partner - he's a big BMC guy but likes higher alcohol beers so he's hard to please... using tettnang to bitter and a hop burst of saaz at the end - no dry hopping. i'll ferment with us5 to make it clean... i'll also ferment it lower than my normal beers and for longer but i'm pretty sure this beer could go from brew to glass in 3 weeks. we'll see..

 

[msa8967]

Another thing I have been wondering about this recipe is has anyone tried a blend of 2-row and 6-row instead of straight 2 row/pale malt? Would replacing a few pounds of 2 row with 6 row help in the conversion of the corn and rice in the mash?

 

[shadows69]

Won't hurt the add 6 row but I never did more then a pound.

 

[Brewskii]

Another thing I have been wondering about this recipe is has anyone tried a blend of 2-row and 6-row instead of straight 2 row/pale malt? Would replacing a few pounds of 2 row with 6 row help in the conversion of the corn and rice in the mash?

It would, although all you need is enough enzymes to do the conversion so, in this case there is no need. There is an infinitesimal cost savings adding 6 row and a slightly higher protein amount in comparison to 2 row. If you want to do it I'd say knock yourself out. The most you'll see in a difference is maybe a little better foam stability; .... maybe.

 

[biggc1]

Well I don't know how I managed this seeing as I've brewed 11 gallon batches of this like 5 times but I forgot the rice. Went into the fermentor 2 days ago. Thoughts? Lol

 

[BierMuncher]

Well I don't know how I managed this seeing as I've brewed 11 gallon batches of this like 5 times but I forgot the rice. Went into the fermentor 2 days ago. Thoughts? Lol

Perhaps a little lighter ABV, but should be just fine. If I am without the rice, I will sub in about 3/4 pound of cane (table) sugar for every pound of rice I would have used.

 

[edmanster]

Well I don't know how I managed this seeing as I've brewed 11 gallon batches of this like 5 times but I forgot the rice. Went into the fermentor 2 days ago. Thoughts? Lol

Edit: ^^ Dammit! BM beat me ^^
You can add sum table sugar to make up for the rice!! it doesn't add anything but empty fermentables..

 

[biggc1]

Lol thanks guys!!!! Should i dissolve it in hot water and add it now?

 

[edmanster]

Lol thanks guys!!!! Should i dissolve it in hot water and add it now?

If you've got a strong fermentation right now, I would wait a couple (2) days then add the dissolved sugar.. It will start to ferment harder so you want to let the first part subside a little before dumping in simple sugar.. kinda like a triple with candi sugar even though it's not alot it might be better for the batch and even clear faster

 

[Starderup]

I have my third batch of this in the fermenter right now, and just finished off batch #2. Great recipe!

 

[Quaker]

After 11 days in primary, the yeast finally dropped out and it cleared up. However, day after day it's had a very strong yeast aroma. I decided to rack to secondary, which I normally forego. I sampled a glass, and yeast is the wrong label. The taste is all corn. Had a very healthy fermentation. I doubt it's DMS. I think it's obviously from the cracked corn. We'll see what a few weeks more will do for it.

 

[mlyday]

Mine was the same thing, too much corn taste, if I were to do it again I would drop the corn way down. I let it sit for a few month and it didnt change, so I dumped it. With the long mash and long boil this one takes a long time to brew, I wont be doing it again for a while.

 

[shadows69]

Same here as far as the corn taste. I dropped mine to 1.25 lbs per 6 gals.

 

[Brewskii]

If your looking for a cleaner tasting brew up the rice percentage and dial back the corn.

 

[BierMuncher]

Mine was the same thing, too much corn taste, if I were to do it again I would drop the corn way down. I let it sit for a few month and it didnt change, so I dumped it. With the long mash and long boil this one takes a long time to brew, I wont be doing it again for a while.

mlyday - Properly brewed, a slight residual, yet crisp sweetness is all you should detect from using pre-gelatinized flaked corn as an adjunct.

V V V V

Well I think ive created a dumper. This turned out really bad. Im sure with all the good reviews this gets, it was something I did wrong. I carbed this up this week and took a test yesterday. It was really really light, moreso than alot of the pictures Ive seen here…

After 11 days in primary, the yeast finally dropped out and it cleared up. However, day after day it's had a very strong yeast aroma. I decided to rack to secondary, which I normally forego. I sampled a glass, and yeast is the wrong label. The taste is all corn. Had a very healthy fermentation. I doubt it's DMS. I think it's obviously from the cracked corn. We'll see what a few weeks more will do for it.

Quaker - Sounds like you ended up adding cooked corn to your mash. Next time use brewers pre-gelatinized flaked corn…

V V V V

I had scaled the recipe up, consistent with the volumes used by CYBI or Brewing Classic Styles. So I had 2.33 pounds cracked corn and 0.56 pounds plain white rice. I put them together in our rice cooker with about 1.5-2 L of water leaving about 1.5" of space in it. I was afraid it would swell too much and create a mess, but it didn't. It cooked on the normal setting for rice. Once cooked, I mixed it in with 6.7 lbs of pilsner and broke up the balls as much as possible. It stabilized at 122 deg F. I used Beer Alchemy to calculate my strike water temp considering a 122 F grist at roughly 12 pounds when the water was factored in. That actually enabled me to hit my mash temp on the nose. I had forgot to turn the burner on to heat the strike water until the cereal was almost done. So the rice, corn, and pilsner mixture rested in a fairly dry state at 122 for almost 30 minutes. Since it was relatively dry, I doubt it acted as a protein rest, activating the enzymes. But I really don't know for sure. I mashed for 90 minutes to give plenty of time for full conversion.

 

[mlyday]

mlyday - Properly brewed, a slight residual, yet crisp sweetness is all you should detect from using pre-gelatinized flaked corn as an adjunct.

V V V V

I used flaked corn on mine.

Im sure it was something I did wrong. It was freezing out the day I brewed, so although I got a biol going, it wasnt as vigorous as I would have liked. It ended up really light, and really crisp, just too much corn taste for my liking. Im sure Ill brew it again, all these people cant be wrong.

 

[kapbrew13]

Follow the recipe then start experimenting. I laugh when my friends cook and says it turned out awful. Did you follow the recipe? Well no because I like this and didn't have that. Blah blah blah.

 

[Quaker]

Can't exactly run down to the LHBS and fetch some flaked corn here. So it's a matter of improvising.

 

[Quaker]

Went back and watched the BBVideo on using corn in a pilsener. I flipped things a bit. I should have done a protein rest with the corn and some base malt first, then sacc. rest, then cook it.

Funny thing is, I expect my Chinese colleagues will love it. A common drink is basically a slightly diluted creamed corn.