Crabapple "Lambicky" Ale Help

arctic_blizzard · Sep 13, 2014

I just want to start off saying that this forums has been a great help over the past year as I started delving into this world - you guys are pretty awesome.

So - I found this interesting recipe suggestion in Randy Mosher's "Radical Brewing" that I picked up recently - it is a crabapple "lambicky" ale that I am hoping to brew. I mostly want to brew this because I have access to homegrown chesnut crabapples. I haven't really seen anything definitive about this brew online, aside from few forum posts for group brews (where unfortunately this brew never made it out to the groups).

The author's directions were to brew a simple wheat ale, mash long and low, secondary over 4# crabapples with a package of lambic culture, and then age in a tiertiary to clear it up.

I was hoping to put a beer like this together and have some questions I was hoping this community could help answer:

Question 1: Mr. Mosher says to use a pale wheat ale as a base. I thought a honey wheat ale would combine great with the crabapple, so I found/adapted a wheat recipe and was hoping to get some feedback on it.

Code:

HOME BREW RECIPE:
Title: Honey Wheat

Brew Method: Partial Mash
Style Name: American Wheat or Rye Beer
Boil Time: 60 min
Batch Size: 5.5 gallons (fermentor volume)
Boil Size: 3.5 gallons
Boil Gravity: 1.104
Efficiency: 75% (brew house)

STATS:
Original Gravity: 1.057
Final Gravity: 1.014
ABV (standard): 5.57%
IBU (tinseth): 19.25
SRM (morey): 5.93

FERMENTABLES:
6.6 lb - Liquid Malt Extract - Wheat (68.8%)
1 lb - Flaked Wheat (10.4%)
1 lb - American - Pale 2-Row (10.4%)
0.5 lb - American - Caramel / Crystal 10L (5.2%)
0.5 lb - Canadian - Honey Malt (5.2%)

HOPS:
1 oz - Cascade, Type: Pellet, AA: 7, Use: Boil for 60 min, IBU: 14.92
1 oz - Tettnanger, Type: Leaf/Whole, AA: 4.5, Use: Boil for 15 min, IBU: 4.33

OTHER INGREDIENTS:
4 lb - Chesnut Crabapples, Type: Flavor, Use: Secondary

YEAST:
Wyeast - American Ale 1056
Starter: No
Form: Liquid
Attenuation (avg): 75%
Flocculation: Med-Low
Optimum Temp: 60 - 72 F
Fermentation Temp: 65 F

NOTES:
2 months in secondary over apples with lambic yeast, another 2 months in tertiary to clear.

Question 2: Mr. Mosher noted that the mash should be low (145deg) and slow (120 min). Does this have any significant effect on a partial mash, or can I just ignore it in favor of the usual 150/60min?

Question 3: I plan on coring and cutting the crabapples and then freezing them to break the cell walls. Should I peel them as well? The books describes the tannins in the apples would bring the tart, lambicky flavor - so to get the tannins I would need to keep the skins, correct?

Question 4: Do I need to take any additional steps beyond a good cleaning and freezing of the apples to prevent bad yeasties? They are being added to a secondary with a projected ABV above 5%, this could inhibit their growth correct?

Question 5: Should I filter the beer when transferring to the secondary to remove the yeast used in primary?

Question 6: Is there a specific lambic strain I should use in the secondary? I have never added yeast to a secondary, should I watch out for anything in particular?

Thanks for all your help!

Broham1 · Sep 14, 2014

http://www.themadfermentationist.com/2009/11/brewing-sour-beer-at-home.html?m=1
This guy wrote the book (literally).

#1: your recipe looks fine, except lose the late hops. They'll just fade with age.

#2: MF actually favors a hotter mash, leaving more residual sugars for the microbes and Brett.

#5: no need to filter.

#6: pitch 1056 and lambic together in primary. Give the bugs the full 4 months (preferably longer) to do their work.

arctic_blizzard · Sep 15, 2014

Thanks for the awesome reference, lots of good info in there!

Based upon your post and reading the MF post brought up a few more questions...

Q6.1: If I pitch both the American Ale and Lambic together, do I increase the risk of needing a blowoff tube? In all of my previous brews, I haven't had much trouble with excessive fermentation.

Q7: MF suggests a high FG brew - is the 1.014 from my recipe sufficient, or do I need to add more fermentables?

Q8: MF suggests reyeasting at bottling time, something that Mr. Mosher did not add to his recipe. Any opinions on which method may be the one to follow? If I plan on bottling after 4 months like what Mr. Mosher describes, I would think that there would be enough yeast active enough to carbonate as well (and I have even seem some express opinions that this is a recipe for bottle-bombs).

arctic_blizzard · Sep 21, 2014

Anyone have any additional insights on this one? We are set to brew this week.

Thanks

youreanimpulse · Sep 22, 2014

I would be worried about using a lambic culture and expecting gravity to be stable at 4 mos. Pedio could impede that by working very slowly and also causing off flavors (or viscosity) that the Brett has to clean up. Gravity will keep dropping throughout. I have a sour with a similar culture that wasn't anywhere near ready for 8 months (still not bottled because I don't have consistent month to month gravity, which is your guide). Most say a year or more. If you want a quick sour try the current private collection yeast blend from Wyeast, De Bom (WY3203 I believe) which I have now used twice to awesome results in ~8 weeks (ok the second isn't done yet so it could be sooner on that one). Or you could pitch separate lactobacillus and Brett cultures to make sure it could even possibly be done in 4 months. Mash high for the bugs (156 was good for one of mine).

Regarding specific questions:
-Blowoff tube is only necessary if you have insufficient head space. I use 8 gal fermenters for 6 gal batches, no problem.
-Ignore your recipe's final gravity. It is an estimate. Bugs will eat further than that most of the time, thus high mash temp as stated above.
-Re-yeasting will not create bottle bombs. Too much sugar will, which is the issue with bottling a lambic at 4 months, when it hasn't fully fermented. Thus the other suggestions.

Good luck!