Saison Cottage House Saison

[mikeol]

Brewed this today OG came out to be 1.042 which bums me out a bit because everyone seems to be hitting 1.055 plus. Not sure where I went wrong followed directions exactly.

 

[azscoob]

Was the grain crushed fine enough? Also did you batch sparge? Was it split into two separate sparges? How long did you let it sit before draining each sparge? Did you stir the heck out of it at each sparge water addition?

I mill my grain at .022" to .024", I also condition my grain and have no issues with stuck sparges even when brewing a hefeweizen.

I drain my sparge additions after a 10-15 minute rest and I drain a little slow, less than half open on my valve.

With my tight crush, my split sparge, and the stirring/resting I am consistent in hitting 85% efficiency.

Post your process and maybe there is something that can be tweaked to improve your results.


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[mikeol]

I used the crusher at the store I'm not sure what it was set to the grain didn't look all that different. I'm not sure of what split spare is, but I mashed at 148 let it sit the hour then added 212 and let it sit 10 minutes and drained. I then added 3.5 gallon of 169 degree water and ran it through sloww. Took about the minutes to drain. I then took the whole 6.5 gallons and ran it through again. I didn't stir the heck out of it but poured it viciously into the cooler aND gave it a light stir.

 

[azscoob]

Store mills are commonly set fairly loose so the grain may not have been crushed very well, my grain is very fine bits, almost to a powder with the husks intact, the finer the grain is crushed the better to extract the sugars.

After the hour mash you added the volume you lost to absorption back at 212 degrees, let it rest for 10 minutes and drain into your kettle, then you added the final water amount to the grain and stirred and drained, that was your sparge addition... I split the volume into two seperate steps, so I would add in 1.75 gallons stir the heck out of it and let it sit for 10-15 minutes, vorlauf until it's running clear, and drain into the kettle, repeat with the second sparge volume of 1.75 gallons, stir, rest and drain....

Running the volume through the grain again was likely counter productive, you are trying to extract the sugars from the grain into the water, (think osmosis to an equalibrium between sugar level in grain and sugar level in the water. Which is why I do multiple sparge steps to continue to extract sugars) by adding back your full volume of wort to the grain you were taking high sugar level water and adding it to the grain that had most of the sugar leached out of it, so you were adding sugars back into the grain.

 

[mikeol]

Thank you for that information. When my other fermenter is free I'll use same ingredienty and technique you described and let you know the difference. As well as crush the grain finer. Also since I missed the mark quite a bit will it greatly effect the out come?

 

[azscoob]

Thank you for that information. When my other fermenter is free I'll use same ingredienty and technique you described and let you know the difference. As well as crush the grain finer. Also since I missed the mark quite a bit will it greatly effect the out come?

You should still have a great beer, but a tick low from what I intended it to be

Practice makes perfect!

 

[NuclearRich]

Looking to brew this soon! How prominent is the pepper flavor? Also I think I might dry hop with some Nelson savuin to give it a bit more juicy flavor. What's everyone think?

3711 isn't bad with pepper flavor, unless you use fresh crack black pepper, that addition should be fine (maybe half that if fresh ground IMO). The white labs saison II, on the other hand is a peppery beast. Im cutting all pepper out next time I use that yeast.

I did a split batch of this recipe before. Rrplaced the fuggles additions. Half with nelson, half with citra. I really didn't love the nelson half, as the winegrape/gooseberry flavor gave it a perceived sweetness that I disliked. Citra was great though.
Dryhopping. .. your going to get something a bit different but I dont love hoppy Belgians so I cant exactly comment specifically.

 

[serum]

I made this on Saturday so I'm looking forward to tasting it. I did it exactly as per the guide except I used East Kent Goldings instead of fuggle.

I didn't get the efficiency I was hoping for but I'm quite new to AG brewing so I'm working on that.

One thing I noticed was that the yeast didn't seem to really have a krausen when making the starter. I left it on the stir plate for 24 hours and usually all the other yeasts I've used will be pushing out the top of the flask by then.

I pitched it anyway and I've saved a little bit which I'm building up for bottling plus I have a sachet of belle saison if it goes horribly wrong. The airlock seems to be bulling away on the brew and from what I've read this yeast doesn't foam up loads.

How did everyone else get on with it?

 

[govner1]

You didn't specify what yeast you used. Was it 3711? If so, I've not had a thick krausen the several tomes I've used it but it does like 75F sometimes more.
Why are you making a yeast starter for bottling?



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[serum]

You didn't specify what yeast you used. Was it 3711? If so, I've not had a thick krausen the several tomes I've used it but it does like 75F sometimes more.
Why are you making a yeast starter for bottling?



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I used 3711. I didn't explain what I did very well sorry! I just saved a bit of the original starter for bottling but then grew that up in case I need to re-pitch. All I got from either starter was just a little clump of bubbles.

I'm going to get it to a warmer room now I'm a few days into the ferment. I wanted to try starting at around 19-20C and then getting it to a room that's around 23-24C. The airlock is bubbling away nicely so something must be happening. I think I was just a bit worried because I didn't know what to expect from this yeast.

 

[mikeol]

Rebrewed this again today with pointers you suggested grain reaper. OG 1.054 thanks for the tips!

 

[azscoob]

Rebrewed this again today with pointers you suggested grain reaper. OG 1.054 thanks for the tips!

Any time! Glad I could be of assistance!!

 

[mikeol]

Any time! Glad I could be of assistance!!

I'll surely let you know how they turn out since I have two 5 gallon batches with only slight variations. Almost went for the blueberry honey for the second batch but everything I ever have with blueberry tastes bad. Kind of sort of wish I tried it.

 

[govner1]

Brewed my 4 the batch of this but used Belle Saison yeast. It spent almost a month in primary but finished at 1.002!
Dropped out very well after I gradually upped the temp to 74-75F.
Hydro sample was awesome. Added fresh cracked pepper corns to the secondary since I left out of the boil.
Will move to keg for conditioning in 10 days or so.


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[ShottyJohnson]

I brewed this in October last year and used wlp565 Saison I Yeast. It fermented aggressively to 1.003 but came out with a cough syrup flavor. I put both cases at the back of the fridge until last week. I am amazed at how well this beer conditioned and how amazing the flavors are. Time fixed my yeast off flavors, and I have two cases of amazing Saison for the Fourth. Thanks for the recipe OP!

 

[azscoob]

I brewed this in October last year and used wlp565 Saison I Yeast. It fermented aggressively to 1.003 but came out with a cough syrup flavor. I put both cases at the back of the fridge until last week. I am amazed at how well this beer conditioned and how amazing the flavors are. Time fixed my yeast off flavors, and I have two cases of amazing Saison for the Fourth. Thanks for the recipe OP!

You are very welcome!

 

[roger_tucker]

I brewed this a few weeks ago. I used an Omega Labs Hybrid Saison yeast. This is the beer that may turn me into an alcoholic. Been brewing for about a year and this is the best of all the batches I created yet. I had brewed another saison earlier this year and the used the wyeast belgian saison 3724 and got some pretty strong esters off of it. This one is much smoother with some milder fruity notes. Well done.

 

[govner1]

Where did you get the Omega Labs yeast?


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[roger_tucker]

LHBS here in Chicagoland, Chicagoland Winemakers. I was actually looking for the French Saison yeast and they recommended the Omega Labs yeast. This was the first time I've used their yeast. If you're not familiar with them, Omega labs is local here to Chicago. I'm not sure what their distribution is like.

http://www.omegayeast.com/

 

[azscoob]

I brewed this a few weeks ago. I used an Omega Labs Hybrid Saison yeast. This is the beer that may turn me into an alcoholic. Been brewing for about a year and this is the best of all the batches I created yet. I had brewed another saison earlier this year and the used the wyeast belgian saison 3724 and got some pretty strong esters off of it. This one is much smoother with some milder fruity notes. Well done.

Glad you like the recipe!

Having recently moved back to Illinois, I need to look into joining a local brew club and get back into competitions and homebrew gatherings and tastings.

 

[roger_tucker]

Having recently moved back to Illinois

I just noticed you were in Lake in the Hills. You're about 30 miles from me. In a former life I was a pretty avid runner an used to make an annual pilgrimage to Cary to run the March Madness Half Marathon

 

[46binder]

Brewed this today, even the yeast starter smelled great!

 

[Damoxemus]

Wanting to brew this but I also have a lot of 2-row left and would like to use it up. How different would the taste of the beer be if I used 2-row in place of the pilsner?

Would splitting it be ok(4 lbs 2row, 4.5 pilsner)?

Also, for the starter - If I brew this on Monday would making a starter Sunday be ok or should I start it on Saturday then cold crash it and decant it Monday morning, then allow it to warm up to pitching temp?

 

[govner1]

Moving my fourth batch to kegs for conditioning tomorrow.


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[timdsmith72]

Wanting to brew this but I also have a lot of 2-row left and would like to use it up. How different would the taste of the beer be if I used 2-row in place of the pilsner?

Would splitting it be ok(4 lbs 2row, 4.5 pilsner)?

I've brewed this with both. The difference isn't noticeable enough to matter to me. I'm going to my Local store today to get stuff to make this one again. Thinking about splitting the Pilsner and 2 row 50/50.

Also, for the starter - If I brew this on Monday would making a starter Sunday be ok or should I start it on Saturday then cold crash it and decant it Monday morning, then allow it to warm up to pitching temp?

To each his own, but I usually make a starter 24 hours before I want to pitch. Let it ride a stir plate until 3 or 4 hours before pitching. Put it in the fridge to crash cool for a couple of hours. Then decant and set on counter for a couple of hours to bring back to room temp.

 

[Damoxemus]

I've brewed this with both. The difference isn't noticeable enough to matter to me. I'm going to my Local store today to get stuff to make this one again. Thinking about splitting the Pilsner and 2 row 50/50.



To each his own, but I usually make a starter 24 hours before I want to pitch. Let it ride a stir plate until 3 or 4 hours before pitching. Put it in the fridge to crash cool for a couple of hours. Then decant and set on counter for a couple of hours to bring back to room temp.

Awesome, thanks for the feedback on both my questions! Still trying to understand "proper" protocol when it comes to starters.

Stoked to make this!

 

[timdsmith72]

Awesome, thanks for the feedback on both my questions! Still trying to understand "proper" protocol when it comes to starters.

Stoked to make this!

You're welcome!!
To be honest, in my experience, it's pretty hard to mess up a starter provided you make it at the right OG.

I've made a starter and had to keep it in the fridge for a week because I didn't get to brew on the day I thought I would...

I've realized the day I was going to make one that I was out of DME. In that case, I took some wort out of the boil and diluted it a bit with RO. Cooled it. Added yeast and stuck it on the stir plate and pitched it first thing the next morning. (Didn't need to chill and decant that time. Starter was made out of the same wort as the beer. )

You get the idea.
Personally, I just make it at the correct OG. Then pitch it as close as I can get it to the same temp as my wort. Eg. If I'm fermenting at 68. I like to have my starter as close to 68 as I can get it.

 

[millhouse9]

I brewed 10 gallons of this yesterday. Ended up using two different yeast strains, 3711 and 3724, that's all that the brew store had and I didn't get around to making a starter. Hit all of my numbers and now it's fermenting away in my new fermentation chamber at 68. Interested to see the difference between the yeast flavors.

Thank you for this recipe. The hydrometer sample tasted great!

 

[azscoob]

You are quite welcome! Enjoy the recipe!

 

[millhouse9]

I have a question for you azscoob. Have you ever used 3724 with this recipe? I've read that it has a problem with attenuating and I'm wondering if I should remove it from the fermentation chamber and just leave the 3711 at 68 for the first couple weeks. The 3724 would be at room temp which is 78. Thoughts?