Cost vs. Labor - Before I do anything!

[jjones17]

That last post is self contradictory. You think factoring in labor is silly, but you agree that if you don't enjoy the process, you shouldn't brew. Well, if the labor is free, there would be no reason to discount the process as a way to get cheaper beer.

Pardon my french, but.... HUH? I read this like 3 times and I still have no idea what you are trying to say. (Disclaimer: I have seen many of your various posts and happen to LIKE all the very helpful info you bring to the table, so do not take this as a personal jab).

I think I have commented before, but the logic on this just is weird. I guess this means when I buy a six-pack, I need to factor in the following:
- Prorated time & money it took me to buy my car that drove me there
- Prorated gasoline to drive my car
- The MONEY I used to buy the beer - I need to factor in the time it took me to earn that money, while I am at it
- The time it took me to drive to the store, and buy it, then drive home. I must factor this in or I am cheating I guess
- Prorated price of the bottle opener if not twist off
- Factor in the time it takes me to dispose of the bottles that I cannot reuse
- Prorated cost of the shoes, pants, shirt, jacket (if winter), sunglasses (if summer), and my stained hole ridden ginch. ALL of which I had to wear in order to get to the store

Did my point drive home yet? Probably not, since I am being a bit silly and I just drank a fullers ESB. I mean its just basic accounting - If you do not use the item on the balance sheet to make the company money in some way, you do not discount its cost!

FYI the ESB, It cost me $3.99 in canadian dollars. When I factor in alllll of the above - It actually cost me $27 for one beer. Ouch!

 

[jjones17]

Fly fishing from a stream in your backyard with a pole made from a branch blown off of a tree using butterflies that land on your head as bait.

Hey, you asked.

FYI This sounds like an ideal day!

 

[shagger]

tastybrew.com has heaps of recipes

 

[AnOldUR]

If you do not use the item on the balance sheet to make the company money in some way, you do not discount its cost!

Correct, but in this case the company is you and the money (profit) is your personal enjoyment. Since all the things you listed were used in leading you to the enjoyment of the beer, yes, they all should be factored into the cost.

Either ignorance (ignoring something, not being stupid) or low self-esteem may be causing some brewers to discount their labor, but personally, I value my time. (Might be because I’m old and can see it running out.) I’d much rather use it doing something that I enjoy (like brewing), but regardless, it has value. Putting a dollar amount on that time may seem arbitrary, but it is an effective way of judging worth. If you say your time is worth $30/hr and you spend three hours watching TV, did you make good use of that $90? If you enjoyed the show and you can afford it, sure, it was worth it. So, sleeping 8 hours cost you $240, but it an unavoidable cost of living expense.

Not sure where I’m going with this argument, but I have to get some work done so that I can pay for my brewing time. :cross:

 

[remilard]

I think I have commented before, but the logic on this just is weird. I guess this means when I buy a six-pack, I need to factor in the following:
- Prorated time & money it took me to buy my car that drove me there
- Prorated gasoline to drive my car
- The MONEY I used to buy the beer - I need to factor in the time it took me to earn that money, while I am at it
- The time it took me to drive to the store, and buy it, then drive home. I must factor this in or I am cheating I guess
- Prorated price of the bottle opener if not twist off
- Factor in the time it takes me to dispose of the bottles that I cannot reuse
- Prorated cost of the shoes, pants, shirt, jacket (if winter), sunglasses (if summer), and my stained hole ridden ginch. ALL of which I had to wear in order to get to the store

You double counted at least one thing there, so I question how hard you really worked on this.

Unless you have some sort of device that I don't have, there are 24 hours in a day. If you spend an hour going to buy a beer, is it not clear to you that you had to give something up to do that? An hour of TV, an hour with your kids, an hour of masturbation, whatever it is that you would have done. In order to spend an hour buying a beer, you must implicitly decide that buying the beer has some utility and there is no other use of that hour that has higher utility. If you are like me and at least for certain parts of the year can work as much as you want (and have variable compensation based on how much you work) then you obviously think the value of spending a marginal hour buying a beer is higher than the marginal wage you would earn for a marginal extra hour of work.

I have a feeling that if you ranked people in this thread by their opposition to the basic economic arguments being advocated and then separately ranked them by income you would see a very strong negative correlation.

 

[Bobby_M]

The "labor must be factored in to any make vs. buy equation" is so difficult to understand when the labor itself is considered by some as leisure time/hobby. It's even harder when the person doing the figuring is one of those people. I think many of the folks who "get it" have really exhausted all the arguments and changing anyone's mind is inconsequential because none of us is going to argue against homebrewing. It's awesome.

 

[CarsonCE]

... an hour of masturbation...

Coincidence that this is the length of my mash? I think not!

 

[springer]

I didn't think anyone was employed here since this is business hours and everyone is posting





If you go into this as a cost saving measure you will be disappointed. I do it as everyone else who homebrews for the enjoyment and relaxation it gives me. A few hours not thinking about work. I ride too, While yes the Harley gets great mileage it in no way saves me money. Its a money pit and so is this hobby.

 

[cvstrat]

Mathematically speaking you absolutely could save money. If you bought ingredients in bulk you could save a lot if you drink a **** ton of beer.

Realistically though I doubt just about anyone really saves any significant money. Expect to put in probably 3 hours per brew session of work and weeks of waiting for the beer to be ready. Also factor in the known fact that everyone and their brother is going to want free beer when they find out what you are doing. Nobody minds taking a sixer off your hands but they sure as hell won't be willing to donate cash for the next brew.

I'd say that's where most of my potential savings goes, to friends and roomies who drink my beer for free.

 

[DavidSteel]

Just as an insight, I buy a 55lb bag of 2-row for 40 dollars, bought 4lbs of hops for about 46 dollars, I harvest my yeast, and my specialty grains cost about 4 dollars per recipe on average. I only get about 4-5 batches from one 55 bag. So, if you buy, say, 4 bags worth to use up all the hops, that'd run you about $64 (specialty grains), $160 (2-row), and 46 (hops). That makes about 16 five and a half gallon batches (not including yeast). So, only 270 dollars for 88 gallons of beer. That's about 915 bottles of beer. Let's say you buy a 24 case every two weeks. This would cover about be about 38 cases of 24 (76 weeks). If you pay about 13 dollars on average for that case of 24, you'd pay 495.73 on beer. Total saved (minus yeast and equipment): $225.73 (probably about 50%). Just know that you'll have to factor in equipment, time, and yeast to those equations and you'll probably break even in the first year or two of brewing (IFF you buy in bulk). After two years, assuming you don't buy equipment, I'm sure you'd save about 50% with those numbers. Keep in mind that the 4lbs of hops I bought were probably the 4 cheapest, so you'd probably have to add another 20-30 bucks in there, meaning you would only save about maybe 45% after two years. Add yeast in and it's probably be around 30-40% depending on what you are brewing and if you harvest your yeast. Hope this helps.

Moral of the story: yeah, sure you can save some money, but you have to buy in bulk and you really don't save money with all the stuff you have to buy. After two years, I'm sure you'd buy more equipment and replace old things. Your lucky if you break even.

Edit: this is also just assuming you buy cheap BMC beer, which is not the case for most brewers.

 

[Hang Glider]

I'm trying to search the forum but can't seem to find what I'm looking for.

I would like to brew my own beer, personally I favor something like a Newcastle nut brown ale.

I am curious what it would cost for me to do a typical brew like this and how much beer it would produce. I can buy a 12 pack at a local grocery store for $15-$16. If the cost difference isn't much to brew my own I'm not sure I have the time nor the funds to get started right now. If the cost difference is substantial then I am highly interested in home brewing!

Thanks for any info!

Ahh - the ORIGINAL POST - Not really a Cost v Labor question -
more a homebrew ingredient cost v storebought cost question


StarCity - hope you had a fun time reading all the opinions and humor here. In the end, we all LOVE brewing beer, or we wouldn't be here. I think you get the win for one of the LONGEST threads in the Beginner section!:rockin:

So, forget the cost and start brewing!

 

[StarCityBrewMaster]

Thought I'd bring one of my first ever threads (and one of the longest ever beginner threads) back to life just to thank everyone who expressed their views and opinions on this site!

I am now over 30 batches into my home brewing process! I went all grain by my 3rd batch, I am making beers that people can't believe are coming out of my basement and not a store, I think about and design recipes daily and brew about once a week. I am getting ready to start washing yeast and hope to upgrade my system to brew 10+ gallon batches soon as well as keg.

What all started as a "let's see how little we can spend to make good beer" has turned into "how can we start our own brewing company!?" The latter of the two is kind of a joke but that is literally how much I now enjoy the process and how much I enjoy trying all kinds of different beers in the world so that I can compare my creations to those that are making profits.

What once started as cost vs labor reasoning has turned into a "how can I continue to improve my efforts and make the highest quality beer?" Notice cost and/or labor are not anywhere in the second part of that sentence nor are they considered in our equation anymore.

 

[BigTexun]

Very cool end to this thread! Thanks for closing the loop and for the return to sanity!