Cost of Energy Experiment

[Dert]

We are close to $0.07/ KWH in MN.

 

[Jps101]

wow, you guys pay a lot for electricity!!!

Last bill $0.074380/kwh

You have no idea...

 

[goybar]

I actually have an Electricity Delivery Charge plus an Electricity Supply Charge...

If I add up and divide by kwh used it comes up to $0.1461/kwh.

974kwh = $142.30

Your clearly still more, but not as dramatically as it at first seemed, unless of course you have Delivery Charges on top that.

Chris

 

[Jps101]

I actually have an Electricity Delivery Charge plus an Electricity Supply Charge...

If I add up and divide by kwh used it comes up to $0.1461/kwh.

974kwh = $142.30

Your clearly still more, but not as dramatically as it at first seemed, unless of course you have Delivery Charges on top that.

Chris

Not included in this pic is the delivery charge etc. I'll have to look a little closer. I didn't include that as I figure that is not anything additional. I was simply looking at the additional marginal cost if you will. Which by the way, you can see the higher tiers are crazy.

 

[Jps101]

The pennies difference on actual energy costs are of no real significance, the time and convenience factor are the savings. My current number for the cost of my time is $200 per hour when deciding on how to use it. If I have to spend a half hour getting a propane tank filled, I just spent $100 not to mention gasoline and whatever other errand my wife will sneak in on me . Having plenty of electric power to heat up my gear whenever I want in the comfort of my shop in a fraction of the time it takes on a burner in my driveway has been well worth the money I spent building it. I now have extra time to spend on other activities, it was a no brainer for me.

I can't believe people are trying to figure out how much heat they are loosing through their power cords. That's some heavy ****. lol

At $200/hr, I am guessing the time value of the beer you are brewing pushes your cost per beer out of this world...ha ha.

 

[Jps101]

So as promised I did a brew yesterday and was pretty methodical about collecting what I thought was relevant data.

I have tried to post a pic of the excel spreadsheet below. In summary I used approximately 74,633 BTU's with my set-up. The set-up being a 10.5 gallon Polarware Kettle and a Blichmann Floor Burner. Couple of key points:

Time to heat 8 gallons of water from 59* to 160* = 29 min
Time to Heat 8 gallons from 152* to 166* = 11 min
Time to Heat and Boil ~6.75 gal for 60 min, took 80 min, raised temp from 162*

A pound of propane = 21,951 BTU's. If I leave out the boil portion for just a moment and simply calculate energy used to raise temp from point A to point B, I think I can come up with some efficiency numbers. A quick refresher. 1 BTU = energy used to raise 1 gallon of water 1* F. 1 gallon = 8.34#. Therefore, 8 gallons of water x 8.34 = 66.7#. If I do the math for the heating of strike water and mash out water, in a 100% efficient system you would only use 7,670 BTU's. Based on the weight of the tank before and after, I used 1.6# = 35,122 BTU's. Thus, heating with Propane is 21.8% efficient, right? I am pretty sure my math is correct.

So here is the comparison:

Propane @ 3.57/gallon = $2.93 for this brew
NG = $0.90 (assuming same efficiency + 15% for difference between LP and NG)
Electricity = $0.80 (using some very loose estimations)

In the end, assuming some of my estimations are correct, due to heat loss as many suggested, going all electric can save (in my case) almost $2.10 per 5 gallon batch. Needless, to say, breakeven is a ways off. However, as some suggested the bling factor alone will more than cover the cost.

Thanks to all who chimed in on this. I hope it was a bit of fun to think of our brew days in yet another way.

Cheers!


Admittedly in order to do a apples to apples comparison, I would need to conduct same experiment with an electric element.

 

[wickman6]

Very unscientifically, I've found it costs me $3per 5gallon batch of propane. Since I bank my yeast and buy grain and hops in bulk, an average medium beer costs me under $15 to brew.

Bottling or kegging works out to about the same price (co2 vs caps and sugar).

I'm under .30 a bottle for most brews. I'm happy with that.

I have considered going electric, but right now isn't the best time for me. Thanks to everyone's contributions on this thread!

 

[inhousebrew]

Holy nerd alert!

I like it. Gonna have to take some time to read through this later.

 

[BadNewsBrewery]

OP delivers! What efficiency did you assume for electric?

 

[passedpawn]

So as promised I did a brew yesterday and was pretty methodical about collecting what I thought was relevant data.

I have tried to post a pic of the excel spreadsheet below. In summary I used approximately 74,633 BTU's with my set-up. The set-up being a 10.5 gallon Polarware Kettle and a Blichmann Floor Burner. Couple of key points:

Time to heat 8 gallons of water from 59* to 160* = 29 min
Time to Heat 8 gallons from 152* to 166* = 11 min
Time to Heat and Boil ~6.75 gal for 60 min, took 80 min, raised temp from 162*

A pound of propane = 21,951 BTU's. If I leave out the boil portion for just a moment and simply calculate energy used to raise temp from point A to point B, I think I can come up with some efficiency numbers. A quick refresher. 1 BTU = energy used to raise 1 gallon of water 1* F. 1 gallon = 8.34#. Therefore, 8 gallons of water x 8.34 = 66.7#. If I do the math for the heating of strike water and mash out water, in a 100% efficient system you would only use 7,670 BTU's. Based on the weight of the tank before and after, I used 1.6# = 35,122 BTU's. Thus, heating with Propane is 21.8% efficient, right? I am pretty sure my math is correct.

So here is the comparison:

Propane @ 3.57/gallon = $2.93 for this brew
NG = $0.90 (assuming same efficiency + 15% for difference between LP and NG)
Electricity = $0.80 (using some very loose estimations)

In the end, assuming some of my estimations are correct, due to heat loss as many suggested, going all electric can save (in my case) almost $2.10 per 5 gallon batch. Needless, to say, breakeven is a ways off. However, as some suggested the bling factor alone will more than cover the cost.

Thanks to all who chimed in on this. I hope it was a bit of fun to think of our brew days in yet another way.

Cheers!


Admittedly in order to do a apples to apples comparison, I would need to conduct same experiment with an electric element.

Spreadsheet

 

[Jps101]

OP delivers! What efficiency did you assume for electric?

I used 100% efficiency. I know that is not reality as you will lose some heat to the kettle, etc. Also, hard to know exactly the amount of time to heat water and the cycle rate for maintaining a boil. It is realtively easy to calculate what energy is used to take it from one point to another. Had to make a few assumptions here and there. In the end...for me, there would be no comparision with NG...but a NG set up is not nearly as cool as your set up!

 

[AllanMar]

Has anyone gotten any actual electric data? I was planning to add one of these to my control panel just for curiosity:
http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Single-Phase...352?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item35c0ea87d0

Theres lots of them on eBay for cheap.

 

[passedpawn]

Has anyone gotten any actual electric data? I was planning to add one of these to my control panel just for curiosity:
http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Single-Phase...352?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item35c0ea87d0

Theres lots of them on eBay for cheap.

US biphase power is going to be 240VAC, not 220VAC. Warning.

Says 50Hz. Might not read RMS power correctly at other frequencies. Warning.

Appears to have a 10A limit. Warning.

 

[AllanMar]

I did not intend for someone to use that exact one, I quickly googled it to find an example to post.

If you look you can find one suited to your setup, of course it is still un-certified Chinese crap, so you have to be willing to accept that.

EDIT: Just re-read your last line. 10(50A) does not mean it has a 10A limit. This is how power meters are rated Basic Current (Max Current). It has to do with different regulations/standards and how the performance/accuracy of the meter is rated.

 

[BadNewsBrewery]

So by your numbers, even if you assumed only 50% efficiency on electric, which I think is way low, you'd work out to $1.60 per batch in power cost, which is still less than half of Propane. That's good to know, I suppose, not that I was considering going back to propane!

 

[Wynne-R]

I get weekly reports with a graph from the electric company (smart meter) Brew days are about $1.50 more in the summer and about a dollar in the few weeks we call winter.

Kitchen brewing on a stove top.

 

[Jps101]

The reality is we are talking about a few bucks difference at most for the power. In the end NG is going to be cheapest. Let's face it, all-electric is way cooler and propane is just not that good of a deal unless you buying in bulk. However, don't be naive to think the upfront cost for all-electric is going to pay for itself anytime soon. Again...who cares, it is about simplicity and repeatability...right?!!

 

[acefaser]

So all this really shows is that living in California sucks.

 

[Rickochet]

We all would brew beer at home no matter what the cost. My wife is happy that I have this "inexpensive hobby" now. The last one I had was vintage aircraft. Brewing is much less costly than flying. Safer too.

 

[clintopher]

Brewing is much less costly than flying. Safer too.

Yeah, but screaming machine gun sounds at your intended target has got to be more fun with aircraft controls in your hand vs. holding a mash paddle.

 

[lschiavo]

What does BMC heat with? We should find out because it will undeniably be the cheapest way.

 

[helibrewer]

I'm in a rental house with no access to 220 so it's propane for me for awhile...plus in Ca I think I'm paying through the A$$ for electricity

 

[BadNewsBrewery]

What does BMC heat with? We should find out because it will undeniably be the cheapest way.

If I recall correctly, they brew with high temperature steam and jacketed kettles. Great for a large scale brewery, not so great for a small home setup.

 

[lschiavo]

If I recall correctly, they brew with high temperature steam and jacketed kettles. Great for a large scale brewery, not so great for a small home setup.

Yes, I'm sure scale has a lot to do with it. I would guess that NG boilers create the steam.

 

[jeffmeh]

Yes, I'm sure scale has a lot to do with it. I would guess that NG boilers create the steam.

That would be the most cost-effective option now and for the foreseeable future.

 

[beaksnbeer]

While my Kw is only .06 per. My elements do not draw the full term of the boil. The total use on my dual element 220/5500watt is only 1hr and 46 mins total. so the math is: 5500 x2=11,000 x 1.75hrs=19,250 divided by 1000=19.25Kw @.06 cents per = $1.16 per 5gallon batch.

 

[rvklein]

I'm lucky enough to have 400 AMP service & natural gas. Went electric because I brew in a confined space. I may add a NG instant water heater however.

Just wishing I had 3 phase now!