Cost of 240v 30a outlet

[augiedoggy]

In response to the comment above a 50a gfci breaker with a spa panel is $60..... A 50 or 30a gfci breaker alone at the same store is 100 bucks..... For me it was a no brainer since I like having the spa panel mounted in the brew room with a master kill switch...
And as far as a three wire gfci it doesn't matter....since the neutral has nothing else wired to it there is no difference between it and a ground... Its plenty heavy enough to carry a ground since nothing is using that wire for for anything but a ground (no 120v loads on it the way I understand) and its the same gauge as a ground would normally be...considering the size of the hot wires and amps being supplied its still matched to the system as far as I understand.

 

[augiedoggy]

I missed that post...... With a $100 GFCI the spa panel becomes redundant...... I basically object to mounting a spa panel inline...... in the middle of a power cord. I do not agree with using 3 10 gauge conductors.........L1,L2,and Neutral on a 30 amp sub panel without at least having a good ground rod as some folks have suggested to be proper. For $100 (for a GFCI breaker), I wouldn't even consider a spa panel..... What's the point? The dollar figures I'd seen previously for a 30 amp GFCI breaker were far higher...

There have been many posts reiterating the same idea of mounting a spa panel in line...... so many that I have not read them all. The spa panel in line with a cord on each end is a poor solution....... a cobble job worthy of a 12 year old....... that is what I object to. It's simply not a good idea. The cost of doing this as compared to doing it right makes it a pointless exercise.

I apologize for breezing by this....... I clearly wasn't paying enough attention.

H.W.

The only difference between these and a spa panel with sjoow cords wired to it are cosmetic, sleek compact design vs bulky metal box...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/24140-002-T...850?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item417e46da42


http://www.ebay.com/itm/GFCI-In-Lin...112?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item58b60e6e58


http://www.ebay.com/itm/HUBBELL-WIR...650?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4d2551ffaa

And this one would be what you may consider "cobbled together" since it built by a member here and not commercially made and it resembles a spa panel box in size...


http://www.ebay.com/itm/BRU-matic-2...uit_Breakers_Transformers&hash=item3393c74d47

 

[h22lude]

So I got the brew system in today. Went to HD to get the spa panel and the 3 prong plug. Wired it all up. Took about 30 minutes. Hardest part was cutting the rubber without cutting the wires and getting it off nicely.

Using PJs diagram, is this correct? Remember, I have 3 wires going in and 3 going out. The left grey wires are the power in (the middle one is the neutral, in this case the ground). The right group (black, white and green) is the power going to the brew system. Maybe hard to see what I did so I'll explain.

The two outside grey wires are going to the two hot terminals. The middle grey wire is going to the neutral terminal under the neutral bus. The neutral bus has a wire (which I just used extra wire from my 3 prong cable) going to the ground bus to the right. The white curly wire came with the spa panel which I left. The black and white wires went to the two hot terminals on the breaker. The green neutral wire went to the ground bus. Using PJs diagram, since I don't have neutral, I left out the yellow wire going from the breaker. How does this look to everyone? Hopefully PJ has been lurking and can comment too. Oh and the dryer plug came with that metal holder to stop the wire from being plugged. I figured I would use it.

 

[h22lude]

A few things I noticed.

1) The clamp is inside out. I am going to change that.
2) I need a clamp for the red out wires.
3) This is a question, do I need to use the bonding strap? I figured no but wanted to make sure. I would think since the neutral/ground from the dryer outlet is connected to the neutral bus, the neutral bus is connected to the ground bus, then the ground from the brew system is connected to that; everything would be grounded. Am I wrong?

 

[h22lude]

Deleted.

 

[P-J]

Another post.

I just saw this PJ diagram. Is this what I should do instead? Basically connects the two hots from the outlet to the breaker then to the brew system. The neutral/ground is connected to the ground bus and then out to the brew system.
...

That is not my diagram. A dryer outlet is hot - hot & neutral ... not hot - hot - ground.

 

[reynolds5520]

What you did is correct.

Yes, add a clamp to your other cable.

I can't tell from the picture whether the ground bus is electrically connected to the enclosure. If no, then you do want to use the bonding strap to ground the enclosure. Otherwise, no need.

 

[reynolds5520]

One more detail, put a cover on that large opening on the top of the panel so nothing can fall or splash in. If it didn't come with one, you should be able to find one - it's a standard part.

 

[h22lude]

That is not my diagram. A dryer outlet is hot - hot & neutral ... not hot - hot - ground.

I'm sorry I thought I saw you post it in a thread a while ago. It looks like something you would make but then someone changed it. I'm going to delete that diagram as I don't think it is correct.

Do you have any input on my wiring? Trying to get HHN to HHG with spa panel correctly before plugging it in. Thanks

What you did is correct.

Yes, add a clamp to your other cable.

I can't tell from the picture whether the ground bus is electrically connected to the enclosure. If no, then you do want to use the bonding strap to ground the enclosure. Otherwise, no need.

Great, thanks. It was so hard finding info on HHN to HHG spa panel. All of it was either HHNG to HHNG or HHN to HHNG.

The ground is attached to the panel. The bus itself is on the panel and the metal screws holding it done also make contact with both. I will doubt check though.

One more detail, put a cover on that large opening on the top of the panel so nothing can fall or splash in. If it didn't come with one, you should be able to find one - it's a standard part.

Yes I do have a cover. I tried before and the screws weren't going in and got frustrated so I left it until I'm finished lol

 

[P-J]

I'm sorry I thought I saw you post it in a thread a while ago. It looks like something you would make but then someone changed it. I'm going to delete that diagram as I don't think it is correct.

Do you have any input on my wiring? Trying to get HHN to HHG with spa panel correctly before plugging it in. Thanks

Great, thanks. It was so hard finding info on HHN to HHG spa panel. All of it was either HHNG to HHNG or HHN to HHNG.

The ground is attached to the panel. The bus itself is on the panel and the metal screws holding it done also make contact with both. I will doubt check though.

Yes I do have a cover. I tried before and the screws weren't going in and got frustrated so I left it until I'm finished lol

h22lude,

The dagram best suited for a dryer outlet is this one:

(Note: A dryer outlet is hot-hot & neutral)

Neutral feeds into the Spa Panel and ground is independently developed within the panel. Anyway, it's my way of thinking through a complex electrical issue.

Hey, I spent 60 years studying and working with electical components and devices and as a Service Manager for years in New York City. (Blame that one on IBM Corp. NO.!!! They were great for me and MY life.!!) I can easily say that as I'm retarded now. (?? Hmmm.. Retired ????)

Wishing you the very best. If I can help you in your mission, Please let me know.

P-J

EDIT:
Another thought for you: If you do not need the neutral in your setup just don't wire it on the output side of the Spa Panel. No problem.

 

[h22lude]

h22lude,

The dagram best suited for a dryer outlet is this one:

(Note: A dryer outlet is hot-hot & neutral)

Neutral feeds into the Spa Panel and ground is independently developed within the panel. Anyway, it's my way of thinking through a complex electrical issue.

Hey, I spent 60 years studying and working with electical components and devices and as a Service Manager for years in New York City. (Blame that one on IBM Corp. NO.!!! They were great for me and MY life.!!) I can easily say that as I'm retarded now. (?? Hmmm.. Retired ????)

Wishing you the very best. If I can help you in your mission, Please let me know.

P-J

EDIT:
Another thought for you: If you do not need the neutral in your setup just don't wire it on the output side of the Spa Panel. No problem.

Thanks P-J. You are a great asset to this community. A lot of us would be using propane without you...

That is exactly what I did. My dryer is 3 prong (HHN) which I wired the same as the above diagram. I put in the neutral bus to ground bus wire. My controller is 240V with 3 wired (HHG) so I wired the two hots off the breaker and the ground from the ground bus. I left the neutral on the breaker empty.

 

[P-J]

Thanks P-J. You are a great asset to this community. A lot of us would be using propane without you...

That is exactly what I did. My dryer is 3 prong (HHN) which I wired the same as the above diagram. I put in the neutral bus to ground bus wire. My controller is 240V with 3 wired (HHG) so I wired the two hots off the breaker and the ground from the ground bus. I left the neutral on the breaker empty.

Absolutely awesome.!
Your response and understanding makes this very old man happy with you and your success in your adventure.

Thank You.!
THANK YOU !!!!!

P-J

 

[dcbw]

Totally off topic PJ, but I wouldn't be happily brewing away in my basement without your help and diagrams. My diagram was a bit complicated but you stuck with me, for which I'm eternally grateful!

 

[scottyb710]

You guys could start using camping boxes they come with a 50,30, and120 volt plugs

 

[scottyb710]

Gfci the breaker and your set for everything

 

[h22lude]

You guys could start using camping boxes they come with a 50,30, and120 volt plugs

This is 240V 30A.

Gfci the breaker and your set for everything

That is one solution however 1) I wanted it portable 2) it is cheaper going the spa panel route (not sure why but 50A gfci spa panel is cheaper than 30A gfci breaker) 3) I use the outlet for my dryer still and dryers can trip gfci (so I've read).

 

[scottyb710]

Yeah the spa panels are pretty cheap

 

[augiedoggy]

This is 240V 30A.


(not sure why but 50A gfci spa panel is cheaper than 30A gfci breaker) 3).

Supply and demand.
The issue here is most of us think pricing has more to do with manufacturing costs and in todays economy that's just not the case.
In my profession I often see parts that cost under $50 to make marked up in the hundreds and even thousands price range.

 

[TinTurtle]

Show me a $100 30A 220 volt GFCI
If you can get a GFCI breaker for your panel for $100 as you claim

Since there was some confusion apparently.

Siemens for $71.93