Corny keg fermenting

[guyg]

After breaking my second carboy on a tile floor, I knew I had to do something different. I’d fermented in glass for nearly 20 years, but this new house has drawbacks: Lots of tile and concrete, and not much water. Profligate water use for cleaning carboys is undesirable, and if you’ve broken a full carboy full of wort on a hard surface floor you understand. If you haven’t, well, you will.

I’ve half a dozen Corny kegs, and no desire to grow in volume. How about converting a corny to a fermenter? No breakage, small footprint, and potential transfer from primary to secondary/serving keg by gas…less infection risk.

I’d lagered in cornys for years: an in-fitting serving as airlock tube in my fridge for lagering. How could we primary ferment in cornys?
I converted a lid into a primary fermenter lid. The photo illustrates the necessary parts: a lid, a bulkhead fitting with a ½” NPT out-side, a ½ inch NPT elbow, and a ½ NPT x ½ inch tubing fitting.


First, drill out a corny keg lid using a suitable holesaw. Mine is 15/16”, just right for the bulkhead fitting. The holesaw pilot drill fits quite well and centered in the hole for the corny keg poppet valve, and the bulkhead fitting threads on nicely (see photos).

Once done, put your cooled wort and yeast in the corny just like you’d pitched into a carboy. Blowout through your newly modified lid and a ½ inch ID blowoff tube into a suitable container, I use a milk jug half full of sanitized water. I’ve done this several times now, and not yet had a problem clogging the blowoff hose.

I did cut ½ inch off the dip tube of the corny, so I wouldn’t pick up too much primary fermentation debris.

To transfer to the secondary, replace your modified lid with a regular one. Attach an out to out hose, and push in on the primary fermenter. I push the first several ounces out of an out fitting, just to make sure I get the beer mostly off the primary sludge. Once transferred, use an in-fitting to hose, led into a jug of sanitized water, as an airlock. In a few days, just take off the airlock and force carbonate, wasting the first few ounces removed.

So now, I’ve not expanded my brewing equipment space. I’ve got a setup I can brew ales or lagers in, and I need not fear broken carboys.

 

[myntz]

Although I haven't tried it for Primary fermentation, I use the following method for Secondary/bright tank, but can't see why it wouldn't work for primary.(It will also save you the hassle of drilling into anything)


Unscrew the gas in post+poppet, and remove the diptube. Store these somewhere clean or in sanitizer until you're ready to carb or transfer. Slide a 1/2"ID vinyl hose over the threads of the gas in post and zip tie it in place. Run the other end of the hose into a 1/2 gallon growler filled with sanitizer.

(Note it helps to have a keg that will seal perfectly with just the lid latch)


When you're ready to carb/transfer, slide in the sanitized gas dip tube and screw on your sanitized gas post+poppet. Either pour out a few pints of sludge, then carbonate in the same keg, or transfer under pressure into another keg.

 

[GreenMonti]

Check out the fermentation under pressure thread. There's a few folks out there doing this plus adding pressure into the fermentation process. Self carbonation

 

[guyg]

For secondary fermentation, especially lagers, I just use a gas-in fitting fitted with a 3/8 inch ID hose into a jar of sanitized water as illustrated below. No blowoff issues, and it fits nicely in the beerfridge/fermentation chamber. The effort above is simply meant to accomodate blowoff using 1/2 ID tubing from a primary fermenter. It works great. You could make it out of all-plastic for probably less than two dollars, stainless is a bit more (but it's stainless, man) and I freed up a lot of room previously devoted to glassware.

 

[MT2sum]

I think what you did is similar to these -
http://www.homebrewing.org/Cornelius-Keg-Lid-for-Secondary-Fermenter_p_999.html
https://www.kegglebrewing.com/products/fermenting-lid-for-corny-keg

They look like a steal at $10 each, so I have been planning to buy one or two of these, but I was curious about what might happen when you have to remove the fermenter lid after the primary and/or secondary, and replace it with a regular lid (allowing Oxygen/bad yeasties in the air, etc., in?), in other words, would you be potentially infecting your beer? I would guess it's not any different than racking your beer to a bottling bucket .... (I'm not a kegger, I'm a bottler, so I'm looking in to kegging for primary and secondary use, and using a beer gun to bottle, hopefully reducing the chance of oxygenation a bit.). Am I correct in this assumption?
Right now, I use a Big-Mouth Bubbler that I bought from NB and I love it! That being said, I've never broken a carboy yet, and really would rather not in the future, so since I have 4 or 5 old 5 gallon Coke kegs that are sitting out in the shop, doing nothing for now, I thought I could use a couple for fermenters.
Any thoughts?

 

[jmcquesten]

I think what you did is similar to these -
http://www.homebrewing.org/Cornelius-Keg-Lid-for-Secondary-Fermenter_p_999.html
https://www.kegglebrewing.com/products/fermenting-lid-for-corny-keg

They look like a steal at $10 each, so I have been planning to buy one or two of these, but I was curious about what might happen when you have to remove the fermenter lid after the primary and/or secondary, and replace it with a regular lid (allowing Oxygen/bad yeasties in the air, etc., in?), in other words, would you be potentially infecting your beer? I would guess it's not any different than racking your beer to a bottling bucket .... (I'm not a kegger, I'm a bottler, so I'm looking in to kegging for primary and secondary use, and using a beer gun to bottle, hopefully reducing the chance of oxygenation a bit.). Am I correct in this assumption?
Right now, I use a Big-Mouth Bubbler that I bought from NB and I love it! That being said, I've never broken a carboy yet, and really would rather not in the future, so since I have 4 or 5 old 5 gallon Coke kegs that are sitting out in the shop, doing nothing for now, I thought I could use a couple for fermenters.
Any thoughts?

Yes, use them as fermenters.

 

[Sniderzj]

Dude, don't drill out the top of your keg for a blow off! Just unscrew the gas side, remove the poppet and pipe that to the bubbler.

 

[SeeMont]

I had a club member give me a 10 gallon Corny keg, It holds a little over 11 gallons. I use this as my fermenter for big beer as well a 10 gallon brews. I did shorten the long dip tube about 1/2 inch. For a blow off tube, I just hook the gas connector. Works great.

 

[patthebrewer]

For secondary fermentation, especially lagers, I just use a gas-in fitting fitted with a 3/8 inch ID hose into a jar of sanitized water as illustrated below. No blowoff issues, and it fits nicely in the beerfridge/fermentation chamber. The effort above is simply meant to accomodate blowoff using 1/2 ID tubing from a primary fermenter. It works great. You could make it out of all-plastic for probably less than two dollars, stainless is a bit more (but it's stainless, man) and I freed up a lot of room previously devoted to glassware.

This is exactly what I do. Cornelius kegs are so versatile there is almost no need to drill holes. About the only thing I've ever had problems with fermenting in one, was a time I was brewing a hefeweizen using white labs Bavarian Hefe. I didn't leave enough head space for the extremely vigorous ferment, which clogged the blow off tube and caused krausen to spray from the pressure valve on the keg head:smack: like the head on an industrial fire suppression unit. Wife was not happyipe:

 

[MT2sum]

Yes, use them as fermenters.

Thanks, that's what I'll do! Like I've said on a couple of threads/posts, I'm a bottler, NOT a kegger, so I don't know a whole lot about kegging, but I'm researching and learning.

I see a couple of posts after yours (SeeMont, guyg and patthebrewer), that seem to say to use the gas fitting on the 'gas-in post' and run that to the jug of water.

I just want to make sure that I understand .... IF I just put a 'gas in' fitting onto the post, that will automagically depress the poppitt valve, which allows gas to flow in (or out), right? If that is right, (and I think it is), then I've got quite a few red and yellow fittings that will fit on these coke kegs. They've been sitting in the shed with the kegs, and a cold plate, for as long as I've owned this place. I'm sure that they will need some o-rings, or something, but that's OK too. I could just use one or two of those with some silicone hose (instead of the 15 or 20 year old hose that's on it now), and run that into a gallon wine jug with some water for an airlock?

The next question is, since the posts are not marked, which one is the 'gas in' post and which is the liquid out, the two pin, or the three pin post? I'll mark them as soon as I find out, but I don't remember which color is 2 pin and which color is 3 pin, and it's snowing outside tonite, and I don't want to go all the way out to the shed to find out! I'll go out tomorrow during the day and see .....

 

[guyg]

I drilled mine so I'd have no worries about clogged blowoff. It works great. I always thought the gas in fitting was just too small to risk clogging with goop. Of course, YMMV.

Beats hell outa carboys, though.

 

[MT2sum]

I read recently, that someone mentioned that you could prevent the clogging by just removing the poppet and/or removing the post and getting a hose that fits over the threads so you use it in 'blow-off' fashion .... IDK! I haven't got that far into it yet ;>) - still working on my brewroom .... takes time when you get my age !! You know what Charlie says ..... "relax, have a homebrew!"

 

[jmcquesten]

Thanks, that's what I'll do! Like I've said on a couple of threads/posts, I'm a bottler, NOT a kegger, so I don't know a whole lot about kegging, but I'm researching and learning.

I see a couple of posts after yours (SeeMont, guyg and patthebrewer), that seem to say to use the gas fitting on the 'gas-in post' and run that to the jug of water.

I just want to make sure that I understand .... IF I just put a 'gas in' fitting onto the post, that will automagically depress the poppitt valve, which allows gas to flow in (or out), right? If that is right, (and I think it is), then I've got quite a few red and yellow fittings that will fit on these coke kegs. They've been sitting in the shed with the kegs, and a cold plate, for as long as I've owned this place. I'm sure that they will need some o-rings, or something, but that's OK too. I could just use one or two of those with some silicone hose (instead of the 15 or 20 year old hose that's on it now), and run that into a gallon wine jug with some water for an airlock?

The next question is, since the posts are not marked, which one is the 'gas in' post and which is the liquid out, the two pin, or the three pin post? I'll mark them as soon as I find out, but I don't remember which color is 2 pin and which color is 3 pin, and it's snowing outside tonite, and I don't want to go all the way out to the shed to find out! I'll go out tomorrow during the day and see .....

I'm going to be fermenting in kegs, but I'm going to be using a spunding valve so I can ferment under pressure. In my case, I will not be removing the gas post or poppet, but instead attaching the spunding valve to the gas post. Towards the end of fermentation, I'll disconnect the spunding valve and allow the beer to carbonate itself. I'll transfer to a clean purged keg for serving. I'll be linking multiple kegs together allowing me to use just 1 spunding valve. I'll probably ferment a 12 gallon batch split between 3 kegs, leaving plenty of headspace to avoid blow-off, which really shouldn't be a problem when fermenting under pressure.

I use ball lock kegs, so I'm not sure what post is what. Also, with pin locks I think you need a special socket or wrench to remove the posts. I would definitely change all the o-rings and thoroughly clean and sanitize everything before use.

 

[pocketmon]

I use the pre-drilled lid from AIH and change to spunding valve after about five day or gravity is under 1.020. It usually work fine, but my spunding valve got stuck by yeast in my last brew.
I was glad that I have another spunding valve.

 

[Cavpilot2000]

I don't have a pic (I'm not home), but I'm using a setup just like this (pardon the hasty sketch). The ony thing you can't see is a shortened (cut) gas dip tube to raise the opening to near the top of the headspace.
It should be fairly self-explanatory. No special lid needed.
Now if you felt the risk of clogging with gunk, you may need another solution or try using Fermcap to reduce the foam

 

[MT2sum]

I use ball lock kegs, so I'm not sure what post is what. Also, with pin locks I think you need a special socket or wrench to remove the posts. I would definitely change all the o-rings and thoroughly clean and sanitize everything before use.

Yeah, I looked at what was online and they were upwards of $25.00, so I just took an old 13/16 deep socket and my angle grinder and made my own - I think it will work as well as those commercially machined ones - it's nice and tight on the pins .... I just haven't actually taken any of them apart yet, so that's how i'll figure out which is gas and which is liquid. Thanks for the response!
MT2sum

 

[MT2sum]

I don't have a pic (I'm not home), but I'm using a setup just like this (pardon the hasty sketch). The ony thing you can't see is a shortened (cut) gas dip tube to raise the opening to near the top of the headspace.
It should be fairly self-explanatory. No special lid needed.
Now if you felt the risk of clogging with gunk, you may need another solution or try using Fermcap to reduce the foam

Thanks for that drawing ... that's a great idea!
I've got a lot of fittings with old reinforced coke hose attatched, so I'll have to remove the hoses (probably 10 or 15 years old, it's been quite a while since my old broke-down saloon has been in operation, and the coke kegs, fittings, and a cold-plate came with it - I plan to use the cold plate in series with my chiller, OR, if it has double in/out, I may use it to recycle the water thru the cold plate a couple of times! I'll just have to freeze some ice ahead of time! I haven't tested the cold plate yet, I've got so many irons in the fire, I hardly have time to brew - still finishing the remodel on the brew-room, still figuring out the control panel, still running the water, sewer and electric to the brew-room, etc., etc., etc., ..........
Thanks again, that looks like a plan I can fit in for fermenting. As I said somewheres, I have a big-mouth 6.5 gal that I love for primary fermenting, so as long as that lasts, I'll use it for primary, and use the kegs for secondary, or for long-term brews that have a 3 month to 18 month primary fermentation/maturation period (using the blow-off and then your idea for the airlock).
I'm supposing, of course that as long as I carbonate with gas, rather than in-keg conditioning, I can let it mature for long periods without having to worry about excessive pressures (?). I'd most likely have to buy a second regulator set so I could monitor the pressures ..... BTW, from what I've seen there are no bleed-off valves on these keg lids, so is it advisable to drill them and install an aftermarket bleeder?

 

[patthebrewer]

Just removing the post and jamming a blow off tube on the threads...I've done this with 1/2 tubing and a zip tie. Cost...$0.00. (had the zip tie already). Another way to do it, and the way I sometime still do it when my Stout Tank is full(or I don't feel like brewing at least 15 gal). I just to removed the poppet valve from the post, and plunger from the quick connect. Attach tube run, to blow off bottle, call it a day. Cost Also...$0.00

 

[snowman_fs]

I just started running secondaries in my soda kegs. I always "conditioned" in them but this last batch I racked from glass into the keg just after high krausen, 3-4 days. Don't know why I didn't figure this out years ago. My general plan to get into using kegs for primary is to use two. Each keg 2/3 full, allowing plenty of headspace and then transfer into 1 keg for secondary/conditioning/serving with a single gas transfer.

It's the transfer off primary I'm still wishing there was an adjustable racking cane down the beer out port for a sealed and sediment free transfer. I'll just have to play with bent dip tubes and tipping kegs. I will also need to fill the final keg on a scale to prevent overfilling but thats pretty simple.

Bonus for adding a spunding valve that allows natural carbonation to stay in the beer, save tank CO2 and time.

 

[Weezy]

Ghetto version:. Lock open the pressure relief valve, put a grocery bag over the top of the keg to keep the floaties from getting in. Done.

Fancy pants version: put together or buy a spunding valve.

 

[MT2sum]

I don't have a pressure relief valve, so that's out ..... I haven't looked into a "spunding valve??" ---- I don't even know what that is or what it does; so I don't know what that will do for me .... I like the idea of using my 'Big-Mouth Bubbler' for the early-primary/high-krausen and then using kegs from that time on to prevent too much oxygenation, if it takes too much in financial investment for these other ideas/advice, I'll just have to do it the 'poor-boy's way' -
(whatever I can figure out with whatever we can afford)! Thanks for all the advice, and I will be looking into all suggestions until I figure out the best for me. Any other suggestions and the ones already submitted are sincerely appreciated!

 

[jmcquesten]

..... I haven't looked into a "spunding valve??" ---- I don't even know what that is or what it does; so I don't know what that will do for me ....

A spunding valve is basically an adjustable pressure relief valve. It allows you to set the pressure that you want to ferment (maybe 5-9 psi), and will open up and release the pressure if it gets over what it's set at. Most that I've seen just connect to the gas in post on the keg.

Some of the benefits of fermenting under pressure are quicker fermentation, and higher fermentation temps without the off flavors that the yeast can produce at those temps normally (with no pressure).

 

[snowman_fs]

Sorry I didn't describe the picture of the Spunding valve I just rigged up.

What I have is the gas post connected with tubing to a Tee, a pressure dial and a pressure regulator out of the Tee. The dial lets me watch the keg pressure while the relief valve lets me vent to a specific pressure.

If there are tangible benefits to fermenting at pressure I don't know yet. At the very least I save CO2 (and hop aroma) by naturally carbonating, I'm in SS vs glass and can server sooner (maybe).

 

[dcbc]

I run about 11 gallons into a 15 gallon corny. Gas QD to some tubing dropped in a mason jar of iodophor solution. No blow off issues. Ferments great.

Down side, have to put it in the chest freezer and pump wort into it (otherwise too heavy). Easy transfers out under CO2 via a split line to 2 five gallon cornys. Soak in PBW and enough room to get a brush in to clean the scum line if need be.

 

[Weezy]

Did you bend your dip tube or do you just force out any trub that gets picked up?

 

[dcbc]

Did you bend your dip tube or do you just force out any trub that gets picked up?

I cut about an inch off the dip tube. I cold crash, then fine the primary with gelatin at least 24 hours before I transfer. When I transfer, I rack off about two pints through a picnic tap (it runs clear during the second pint before I put on my jumper to transfer to the two serving kegs. There's still a little junk in the bottom of the serving kegs, but any residual gelatin clears then pretty quickly.

 

[Weezy]

I ferment in kegs once in a while (3-4g batch in 5g corney) but I just can't bring myself to modify the tube. I should just do it. That one keg is all it's ever used for.

 

[oujens]

I ferment in kegs once in a while (3-4g batch in 5g corney) but I just can't bring myself to modify the tube. I should just do it. That one keg is all it's ever used for.

I just recently modified a tube by bending it towards the side wall of the keg to collect beer above the trub. This particular keg is the type that picks up in the center so the tube was already bent towards the bottom. Was very easy to do by hand and I can just as easily bend it back if necessary. However, I believe this will be a fermenter only going forward. Maybe bending is a better solution if you don't want to cut it.

 

[dcbc]

I ferment in kegs once in a while (3-4g batch in 5g corney) but I just can't bring myself to modify the tube. I should just do it. That one keg is all it's ever used for.

Just buy an extra diptube. They're pretty inexpensive.

 

[Weezy]

Good points. Thanks. LHBS has spare dip tubes, now that you mention it.

 

[MT2sum]

I cut about an inch off the dip tube. I cold crash, then fine the primary with gelatin at least 24 hours before I transfer. When I transfer, I rack off about two pints through a picnic tap (it runs clear during the second pint before I put on my jumper to transfer to the two serving kegs. There's still a little junk in the bottom of the serving kegs, but any residual gelatin clears then pretty quickly.

I need to research more into fining with Gelatin .... we can buy Kosher, Organic beef gelatin online, is the same kind of gelatin that we would need for fining?

 

[dcbc]

I need to research more into fining with Gelatin .... we can buy Kosher, Organic beef gelatin online, is the same kind of gelatin that we would need for fining?

I use store brand unflavored gelatin. 1 packet per 11 gallons is probably overkill, but that's what I use.

1. 1 cup of filtered tap water in a pyrex measuring cup at room temp.
2. Slowly add gelatin.
3. Cover and let it sit for about 20 minutes so gelatin can bloom.
4. Uncover, and put the measuring cup with mixture into the microwave.
5. Heat on high and watch carefully. As soon as you see the first bubble or two indicating boiling, stop the microwave (you don't want to boil it).
6. Dump the mixture into a chilled keg. There's no need to shake the keg.
7. Leave the keg for at least 24 hours.
8. Rack off whatever has settled around the dip tube and either transfer to serving keg or carb and serve if you are fining the serving keg.

You can do it on the stove top, too. You are shooting for about 180 F. Microwave works fine and is just as effective.

 

[MT2sum]

Thanks! Since I haven't had any problems with cloudy beers, (most of mine are dark, so that isn't an issue), I haven't really looked into the gelatin fining - heard of it a couple of times, seen people mention it in posts, but that's about all. I've only made a pale ale or two, but plenty of IPA's, (usually dark or amber) and dark beers, once did a wheat beer which wasn't a bit cloudy - but most of mine are either Cascadians, IPA's, Stouts, and Porters, which are the beers I like the most! I just recently did a partial mash kit from NB that's supposed to be a Belgian Dubbel, but it wasn't cloudy either. I am going to do a smash beer soon, so I will try out the Gelatin on that - thanks for your directions/list!

 

[Weezy]

Does anyone have any tips on collecting yeast from a corney? That's like the only downside of using these things. It's a messy job.

 

[pocketmon]

How about top cropping? I found a layer of white clean yeast in the bottle for blowoff in my last brew. Top cropped yeast is said to be healthier and maybe cleaner.
Cropping from starter seems to be another good idea.

 

[jmcquesten]

-

 

[SeeMont]

I ferment in a 10 gallon corny, I have boiled water stored in 1/2 gallon growlers. I clean and sanitize the top of the corny, depending on how much yeast I want to save, I will add the clean water, seal up the keg and give it a good shaking. I then pout the slurry into the now empty growler. It's not to bad.

 

[Weezy]

I ferment in a 10 gallon corny, I have boiled water stored in 1/2 gallon growlers. I clean and sanitize the top of the corny, depending on how much yeast I want to save, I will add the clean water, seal up the keg and give it a good shaking. I then pout the slurry into the now empty growler. It's not to bad.

i'll give it a go. thx