Corked Champagne Bottles. Multi Purpose- Mead, Beer, Wine, Cider, Aging & Carbonated

[QuestionThat]

New to brewing and new to this forum.... 1st Post & 1st Question!

Getting ready to pull trigger on ordering my supplies for my 1st batch.
Bottles are the biggest unknown at the moment.
Have a free source of 750 ml champagne & or sparkling cider bottles (girlfriend works at a spa in a hotel).
Don't know the brand etc but thinking may not matter for my purposes.

So here's what I'm currently thinking.
I'm going to be making 1 gallon batches back to back and rotating out of a primary to fill the gallon carboys and as the primary becomes available start a new batch of something else. Probably have 4 batches in rotation at all times..... that's the current thinking anyway.

For the record, the "impetus" for this is that we have a mango tree I I just recently got some bees..... so the initial goal is mango hard cider and mango mead!
But, I'm also growing some muscadine/ scuppernong grapes.... so kinda thinking I could also make some muscato wines (girlfriend likes the sweet stuff), juices and maybe even sparkling wines/ juices and champagnes.... when I find the time to plant some Florida true wine type grapes.... still researching this. And I also like beer... and now kombucha lol. Thinking this is a slippery slope now!

Anyway, the thinking goes that I would like to have one bottle/ bottling system that could do/ bottle all these things..... and keep it relatively simple AND work with my free source of bottles!

So, I'm at, "ok, you have this free source of champagne bottles, so why not use those for everything? They can handle carbonated stuff (with a wire cage), they can handle fermenting (with a wire cage), they could handle beer (if corked.... and maybe caged), they can handle aged beer if corked (and caged), should be able to handle ciders and meads as well.

So, get a table top corker and use the bottles for everything. Right? Makes sense to me.
BUT, don't think that size bottle is going to be ideal for beer because too much (all the time anyway) for me wanting to sit down and drink a beer..... so this is kind of the loose end, along with no free clear bottles (only green (maybe brown) I think).... to display/ look at my meads and such.
Therefor, seems like I'm going to need a special solution for that.
I was originally thinking about the swing top bottles for everything (before my girlfriend told me she could get me the bottles) so, was originally kind of leaning towards those for the beer. But now I'm wondering why not just get some half size champagne bottles and cork the beer in those? Only reason I even know that this MIGHT be a possibility, is I was looking at some Chamay in the liquor store and it was corked. Did a little research and appears that higher end beer is/ can be corked..... so seems like a kinda cool idea to me.

Also had this notion that for presentation, I could do wax seals vs the heat shrink stuff.... which to me is cool also..... but kind of an aside.

So looking for some guidance here as I know zero about how all this could potentially work together.

Some questions:

• Anything special I need to consider if getting bottles that I can use the same size corks for? I mean (as example) do all champagne bottles use the same size types of corks? For uncarbonated vs carbonated? 2 different corks for the same bottle I would presume.
• I "know?" that champagne is typically going to require the special shaped champagne corks (I want to use cork rather than plastic type) but wondering if there might be a way/ a cork type that I could just use one style for everything (and "just" cage the "regular" corks) so only need to stockpile one cork type.
• Any way that I can insure that I would only need one size/ types for the half size vs 750ml bottles.... even if I need both a normal wine cork and the champagne style cork. Thinking they COULD typically have different cork type requirements.
• I understand that I could conceivably cap AND cork the carbonated bottles but think I want to stay away from that for now. I understand easier than the cages.... but right now not really a concern and would rather not have both a corker and capper.... if not necessary. That may change.... just talking for at the moment.
• Thinking I can always pick up some clear "champagne" and other colors later.... if want to see my mead etc.
• In all this light, kind of leaning towards not getting the swing tops now..... although I do like the presentation.
• Could use recommendations on:
  • Cork types/ sizes needed to make all this work
  • Cage types/ brands
  • Corkers I may want to consider that can do double duty (champagne corks and normal corks). The plan is to get a table top model that I can store and get out as needed. Willing to pay for it to get a decent one that is not going to be a pain to use long term.
  • Any wax sealing info you're willing to pass along would be helpful too.... though I recognize this is a side thread.

Bottom Line? If anyone have ANY recommendations/ insight they are willing to share with me about this path that I'm considering heading down it would be appreciated!

Thanks!

 

[QuestionThat]

One more tidbit. I like the belgian style bottles and would consider those over/ in addition to the half size champagne bottles. If all the above makes sense then wondering if I could source some belgian bottles that i could also cork (and cage) with the same size corks and cages used with the champagne bottles.

 

[MaxStout]

Look at the total "cost of ownership" for each type of bottles with their equipment/supplies.

For the champagne bottles you'll need a floor corker, corks and wire cages. Advantage: they can withstand more pressure than other glass bottles. Downside: you may not want to drink 750ml each time; gear and supplies cost more than for other bottles.
For swingtops, you'll just need to replace the rubber gaskets from time to time. Might be the easiest solution.
Belgian stubbies are nice, and can handle some pressure, more than typical 12oz bottles. Advantage: you'll only need a $20 capper and crown caps are cheap.

 

[QuestionThat]

Thanks for the reply MaxStout. Haven't started pricing anything other than swing tops and bottles yet. Just thought with the free champagne bottles that definitley lowers my first cost.
Are you saying that I'm definitely going to need a FLOOR corker if going to be using for champagne purposes (in addition to normal wine corks)? A "good" (whatever that means) table top is not going to work/ "get old" in a hurry?

Wasn't thinking the corks etc would be "too" pricey.... albeit yes, i get more expensive than caps. Any ballparks as far as how much a cork vs a cap that can hold carbonation would be?

 

[Kee]

I second the notion of small Belgian bottles. I have 750 ml Belgian bottles and a floor corker that usually gather dust, simply because I don't usually want to drink that much (my wife usually drinks wine now), they don't fit in the frig or store as easily.

Swing tops are nice, work for a lot of people but I prefer standard capping.

 

[Kee]

Any ballparks as far as how much a cork vs a cap that can hold carbonation would be?

If you have strong Belgian bottles, such as Duvel type or Oval type, you can carbonate to pretty high levels. I have to pour my Belgian blondes slowly, as you would the beers I named. I've rarely had any problem with a cap leaking. But pay extra attention to your calculations and methods if you are getting close to, say, 4 Vols. for safety concerns.

Now, if you are storing for long periods to age, I'd trust a cork more.

 

[QuestionThat]

Thanks Kee/ MaxStout-
So small belgian bottles..... at least on some level. Either capped or swing tops....
But what about the whole wine/ mead/ cider/ champagne part of the operation? I mean the mead & cider can hang out in an opened bottle better than beer. And the wine/ mead/ cider will most times be shared between the two of us regardless so 750 ml not an issue. Only issue and "need" for smaller bottles therefor is beer. So, if going to be making all this probably still makes sense to go with corker and the free champagne bottles for everything but beer right?

So, either swing tops of or capper for beer and corker for everything else? Even if FLOOR vs table top corker required?

Another option would be to go either all belgian bottles (small and large) with either swing tops or caps or belgians that are both swingable and cappable.... and just forget the whole free champagne bottle thing. No capper & no corker required and little drama.....
Truthfully, that was kind of my original plan I think.

 

[QuestionThat]

.... but then if I want to give some stuff away I've got some "pricey" bottles in that mix. So going to need to get set up to either cork or cap regardless..... probably. Don't really want to be asking for my bottles back lol.

 

[Kee]

.... but then if I want to give some stuff away I've got some "pricey" bottles in that mix. So going to need to get set up to either cork or cap regardless..... probably. Don't really want to be asking for my bottles back lol.

It's good to have the options of either capping or corking, for me. Cappers are cheap and floor corkers are well worth the price.

 

[DBerg]

You can use crown caps on American champagne bottles.

 

[MaxStout]

Here's a chart showing maximum carbonation levels for various styles of bottles. As you can see, champagne bottles withstand much more than other glass bottles, but that is overkill for beer, as I'm hard-pressed to think of a style that needs to be carbed to more than about 4 volumes.

 

[QuestionThat]

Thanks Dberg.
I'll assume for now that the champagne bottles I have access to are american made. So that gives me some options....

 

[QuestionThat]

MaxStout-
That's chart helps me get my head wrapped around this a little better. So, if I want to consider the whole corking thing then no reason why I shouldn't use the champagne bottles... especially since the are free.

 

[QuestionThat]

Another question. Swing tops. Found some swing top bottles on cheap champagne and sparkling cider.... the champagne for people who aren't drinking alcohol. Like $3.00 a bottle. If they are holding champagne can I assume they are champagne capable swing tops? These are in just random stores. But Aldi also has some sparkling lemonade with swing tops too.... around the same price and it's from "France". Would guess that the actual champagne bottles are capable but not sure of the Aldi swing tops. Interested in the Aldi swingtops because they are clear and might consider using the clear for meads and such.... with some carbonated.
Anyone have insight into the capabilities of the cheap champagne bottles vs the aldi bottles?

 

[Hoppy2bmerry]

Welcome to the forum. My first beverage fermentation was mead and I packaged in champagne splits, finished with plastic stoppers and cages. The same size cork is used for the split and the 750ml. If you want to wait on investing in a floor corker, then the plastic stoppers are a good way to start. (Not classy, nor great for aging, but works fine.) The lemonade swing tops from Aldi are nice for easy reuse and presentation of mead/wine/cider especially when they are clear and have a nice color, perhaps from fruit additions for example. For beer I’d stick with amber glass. Again, welcome.

 

[Brockness Monster]

Most bench cappers come with a 26mm and a 29mm bail to cap the standard US bottles (26mm) and European champagne style bottles (29mm). Worst case scenario is you have two different sized caps on hand and have to switch your capping bail back and forth to bottle. Then pick up some small Belgian bottles either by drinking some great Belgian beers or order these. If you are doing small batches, you won't need very many.

Corking runs an inherent risk of infection from the cork, and if you don't store them properly the cork will dry out and allow more oxygen through. Capping IMHO is superior. If you decide to go with swing tops, make sure the gasket is rubber not silicone.

 

[MaxStout]

MaxStout-
That's chart helps me get my head wrapped around this a little better. So, if I want to consider the whole corking thing then no reason why I shouldn't use the champagne bottles... especially since the are free.

If you don't mind drinking 750ml at a time, the champagne bottles will handle the carbonation of anything you'll put in it. And, they're free. As @Hoppy2bmerry mentioned, plastic stoppers are a good option.

If you are concerned about your beer getting light struck in clear bottles, just store them in cardboard cartons. Stop by a liquor store and ask for some wine cartons.

 

[QuestionThat]

Alright. Sounds like i need a capper and corker.
Bench top cappper seems fine but generally no to a bench top corker….. especially if want to do champagne corks.

Found this however and curious if anyone has experience with it. Doubtful it can use champagne corks…… but probably belgian corks. More questions!

Check out this video from this search, colonna corker capper champagne cork
https://www.google.com/search?hl=en...sc2&source=sh/x/vid/m1/3&kgs=f14532e81730d564

…. On the belgian cork thing in champagne bottles….. with BELGIAN cages. Is this going to be a viable solution with champagne bottles?

Was looking at specs for even at least one of the italian floor corkers (not a “dedicated” champagne corker) and the big box store basically acknowledged that the italian corker couldnt do champagne corks (think it was an american bottle specific thing) so they were recommending belgian corks. So if thats tge case then thinking the portugese floor corker or the colonna table top might be a viable solution as well….

One thing im not folliwing with the whole belgian cork thing is about the mushroom cap? Some random thread i was reading sbout needing yo shape the cork or something to get a dome on top to look right/ authentic for use with the belgian cages … not interested in that drama.

So now all this kind if has me thinking about just using swingtops for everything. Could do that right? Assuming for everything except champagne?

 

[QuestionThat]

Note the sparkling cider bottle image is one of the free bottles i have access to. Waiting on images of the champagne bottles. Assiming the cider bottles are american…. Right?

 

[mac_1103]

I use a Portuguese floor corker for Champagne/Belgian cork & cage. You might need to modify the plunger with a rubber washer or something to make sure you don't push the corks in too far. 750 mL of bottle conditioned beer/cider/etc is really only two 12 ounce pours, so really not an issue unless you're drinking alone.

And oh yeah BTW, my brewery's motto is "the beer is free but there's a $50 deposit on the bottles."

 

[QuestionThat]

mac-
So you use champagne bottles with the belgian corks and cage for even champagne psi?
That's actually interesting that a 750 mil is only 2 beers! Just did the math..... thought a wine bottle held way more than 2 beers of liquid!

Like that motto.

Everyone- thanks.
Still sorting all this out but think for the time being I've moved away from the true "champagne" corker. 250+ shipping I just can't rationalize for some reason right now, BUT, I would be done with purchases corker/ capper purchases... thus the freaking delimma.

Leaning towards corking the free champagne bottles..... for now.

Anyone know how I can be "certain" of a swing tops psi rating? I mean some manufactuerers out there show this number..... and some don't..... so kind of guesswork. But wondering if I can be "assured" that a bottle (think Aldi) that has a swing top with sparkling whatever in it is going to be rated enough for any kind of carbonated (2nd stage bottle fermentation etc)... because that's what is holding it.

Also, if anyone knows of a source that has free shipping on brewing bottles that would be nice to know.... the shipping is what's jacking these things up.

 

[QuestionThat]

Made up my mind. Going with a portugese floor corker and calling that decision done! Thanks!

 

[mac_1103]

Just did the math..... thought a wine bottle held way more than 2 beers of liquid!

Yeah, most people don't usually pour 12 ounces of wine at a time.

 

[Hoppy2bmerry]

Alright. Sounds like i need a capper and corker.
Bench top cappper seems fine but generally no to a bench top corker….. especially if want to do champagne corks.

Found this however and curious if anyone has experience with it. Doubtful it can use champagne corks…… but probably belgian corks. More questions!

Check out this video from this search, colonna corker capper champagne cork
https://www.google.com/search?hl=en-US&hl=en-us&client=safari&sca_esv=97d2e28a3f4a1e73&q=colonna corker capper champagne cork&docid=fl6UZ-WvYulsfM&ibp=video&shndl=41&shmd=H4sIAAAAAAAA_3VQsU7DMBBVy9ZPYLqJASlJW4GASgihINqhYoC0YnWcwwlN7NS-4qYT4msY-Ag-DdtUggGmO987v3fvDT4PBrOFqaQABqmqlZS-6hVqSFnbusIIqESYatYiMFn4TjLdRWCtjR0kPBJLpMOyJGrNJElQct21hEVEuRzGwhCjisdcNUnVMIHman3pkMn1XXEx5Rme3KRnq3ohVVMUs2fa8Xt8HOHLcDrP7Dw9Vw9iubw9LXdsu87G9sgcv_VnygIp2Bj8fXk4Odkb-O_yGLK_xmBKZQ10agPlD3lF8KQ0cEfpU7KVRMgVUY0mfOZO0gM5OsU9EPscXAw-oJCOWxR7bZ-BJ2mY54tGo3GiGQ-924oCg3skPHgwrgZrEQ_Wou-xE2jq7Uf_tffe-wL3ewwXwwEAAA&shmds=v1_AdeF8Kgar3DRyBaQH4SlaN8NVBwSInrtH60jQEF_ymv8l29gdA&shem=qiosc2&source=sh/x/vid/m1/3&kgs=f14532e81730d564

…. On the belgian cork thing in champagne bottles….. with BELGIAN cages. Is this going to be a viable solution with champagne bottles?

Was looking at specs for even at least one of the italian floor corkers (not a “dedicated” champagne corker) and the big box store basically acknowledged that the italian corker couldnt do champagne corks (think it was an american bottle specific thing) so they were recommending belgian corks. So if thats tge case then thinking the portugese floor corker or the colonna table top might be a viable solution as well….

One thing im not folliwing with the whole belgian cork thing is about the mushroom cap? Some random thread i was reading sbout needing yo shape the cork or something to get a dome on top to look right/ authentic for use with the belgian cages … not interested in that drama.

So now all this kind if has me thinking about just using swingtops for everything. Could do that right? Assuming for everything except champagne?

View attachment 879437View attachment 879438

I had the capper/corker and loved it until the nylon gears wore out and couldn’t be replaced. Out of production a few years ago when I Looked last.