Cooling Wort Clarification

[bnutting]

OK, I currently have a batch in the primary and a batch in the secondary but I still have a question on why cool the wort to 80 or so degrees as fast as possible when you are going to be pouring the wort into the primary which has cool water in it? Won't the cool water cool things down?

Do I really need a wort chiller when I'm pouring my partial boil into cool water anyway?

Sorry if this sounds like a stupid question, but we have only brewed two batches so far.

Thanks in advance,
Bryan

 

[Ize]

Not a stupid question in the least bit. The idea is to cool it as fast as possible so you are able to get it locked down in a fermenter faster, and better avoid the risk of contamination. Wild yeast floats around everywhere, and you want to try to avoid getting that in your brew as fast as possible. So cooling it faster cuts back on your exposure time.


Ize

 

[Orfy]

If you are only boiling one of the 5 gallons then you don't need an immersion chiller.

You only really need a chiller if you're doing full or near full boils.

 

[Ize]

If you are only boiling one of the 5 gallons then you don't need an immersion chiller.

You only really need a chiller if you're doing full or near full boils.

oops. Missed the partial boil part. Yeah an ice bath should do nicely.

Ize

 

[bnutting]

If you are only boiling one of the 5 gallons then you don't need an immersion chiller.

You only really need a chiller if you're doing full or near full boils.

OK so if I'm going to be pouring my partial boil into a primary that has cool water in it, then I really do not have to get my wort to 80 degrees prior to pouring it in, right?

So if I got my wort to like say 150 or so then pour it into cold water in the primary then as long as the end result is 80 or less then I'm fine to pitch right?

 

[Yooper]

Yes, that's right. When I did partial boils, I did that all the time.

Lorena

 

[FlyGuy]

One thing to keep in mind, however -- rapidly cooling your boil will give you a better cold break so that you can separate out the precipitates in your wort (helps avoid chill haze later). There may also be a small risk associated with hot-wort aeration if you dump your boil into a bucket of cold water (accentuated if you ferment at warmer temperatures).

Here is a great link on the topic:

http://www.howtobrew.com/section1/chapter7-4.html

 

[Adam's Apples]

In reference to that last piece of advice, is it a bad idea to dump a litre or so of ice into your fermentor with the boiling wort then? I thought this would be a good way of cooling things, but would this cause probs with aeration then?

Cheers

 

[Yooper]

Some people have done the ice thing with good results. Things to keep in mind, though:
Use boiled water and feeze it in sanitized containers. Don't use bagged ice from the store, or ice that's been open in your refrigerator. Someone (I can't remember who, though) said they sanitized the outside of milk jugs, filled them with water and used them as "ice cubes" to cool their wort.

( I don't boil my water, I just use regular tap water, so the choice is yours). But the sanitized container is crucial! We talk about hot side aeration alot, but I don't think I've really had anyone say it was a big problem for them.

When I was doing partial boils, I put my boiling wort pot into an ice bath in the sink to cool it fast, to 80 degrees or less. I got a good cold break, and then strained the wort into my primary fermener. Then I added my tap water. My tap water is icy cold, so that cooled it fast to 60 degrees.

Lorena

 

[boo boo]

If you mix 150 degree water with 70 degree water I don't think you are going to get 70 or 80 degree water. Mixing cold water with cold wort makes the most sense as the resulting wort will be yeast pitchable.

In a nutshell. you won't cool the wort much by mixing it with cold water in the primary. It will still retain enough temperture to be a bit on the high side.

 

[NM68657]

I put my pot of boiling wort in an ice bath until it gets to 120 or 110 degrees. It takes about 20 minutes to cool that much. Then I dump it into the primary fermenter and add two gallons of water which are around 50 degrees each. Then I see what temp it is. I try to shoot for 70 degrees with my ales and stouts. If its at or near 70, the last gallon of water is room temp at 70. If not, I'll use water that is cooler for the last gallon. If it's below 70, I'll add water that is warmer to get it to 70. I've had good luck with this.

 

[lostnfoam]

i do partial boils and i have always used and immersion chiller. yeah a it over kill but it work s great and i dont have to go crazy with ice and such. i would say look into one if you dont already have becasue some day you will need it. thats the way i look at it.

 

[thenatibrewer]

IMHO, if you are doing a 1 to 1.5 gal boil, just put the wort in a ice bath. if you are doing a larger boil a "wortcycle" works great. remember, boil water and sanitize container FIRST!!!! if you take you time the results are well worth it. good luck.

 

[Yuri_Rage]

Don't worry about hot side aeration when pouring a partial boil extract batch onto ice or into cold water. I'd recommend the ice blocks made from boiled water frozen in milk jugs as the cheapest, fastest solution.

 

[MariaAZ]

i do partial boils and i have always used and immersion chiller. yeah a it over kill but it work s great and i dont have to go crazy with ice and such. i would say look into one if you dont already have becasue some day you will need it. thats the way i look at it.

I'm hoping to go AG someday but plan on doing partial boils for awhile. I bought an immersion chiller anyway and plan on breaking it in with the hefe I'm brewing today.

 

[cwb124]

After reading this thread, I'm a little concerned with my method. The night before, I boiled 2 gallons and let it sit in the garage at near 32 degrees. By morning a tiny film of ice formed so I know it was cold.

I boiled my wort, then dumped the 2 gallons of cold water into the primary, then dumbed the 3 gallons of hot wort in the primary and submerged the primary in an ince bath.

Will I have any problems? From now on I'm just going to chill the wort in it's boiling container, and then top off with 2 gals of cold water, but I hope this batch comes out ok. I racked it to a secondary last week and it looks and smells ok.

 

[boo boo]

It's not the ideal thing to do as the cool water put in your garage could, and I do say could, pick up an infection which could be transfered to your beer. Also it is better to cool the boiled wort before topping up with cold water.

 

[cwb124]

It's not the ideal thing to do as the cool water put in your garage could, and I do say could, pick up an infection which could be transfered to your beer. Also it is better to cool the boiled wort before topping up with cold water.

I put tin foil over the pot and the lid on top of the tin foil in the garage so the water is not exposed and is highly unlikely to pick up any type of infection. I do it the night before so it's cool by morning and brew time.

I would think that dumping near freezing water on 200 degree wort would produce an immediate cold break. Am I wrong? Next time I will chill the stainless steel pot and then top off in the primary.

 

[DAAB]

OK, I currently have a batch in the primary and a batch in the secondary but I still have a question on why cool the wort to 80 or so degrees as fast as possible when you are going to be pouring the wort into the primary which has cool water in it? Won't the cool water cool things down?

Do I really need a wort chiller when I'm pouring my partial boil into cool water anyway?

Sorry if this sounds like a stupid question, but we have only brewed two batches so far.

Thanks in advance,
Bryan

As mentioned already, crash cooling forces more proteins out of suspension resulting in a more stable beer.

Cooling must be done when the wort is in an undillute state, as fast cooling of the beer by adding cold water will not force the proteins out of suspension, the increased volume will actually encorage them to remain in suspension.

A higher temperature gradient will result in a more efficient cooling so you will get better results by using somesort of chiller when the wort is still very hot. Even if this is just putting the vessel of hot wort in a sink of cold (or iced) water.

Ideally, cooling to pitching temperature should be done within 1hr or less (easily achievable) although you would be better off allowing the wort to cool over night rather than adding cold water (as long as you cover it and have good sanitation proceesures).

If time is short and or your chilling method isn't that great, as long as you cool you wort to around 104-113 deg c before topping up with cold, you will get pretty good results.

For 5L batches I cool the boiler (stock pot) in a sink of cold water chilled with bottles of ice from the freezer, this produces very bright beer even when chilled.

 

[Adam's Apples]

As mentioned already, crash cooling forces more proteins out of suspension resulting in a more stable beer.

Cooling must be done when the wort is in an undillute state, as fast cooling of the beer by adding cold water will not force the proteins out of suspension, the increased volume will actually encorage them to remain in suspension.

A higher temperature gradient will result in a more efficient cooling so you will get better results by using somesort of chiller when the wort is still very hot. Even if this is just putting the vessel of hot wort in a sink of cold (or iced) water.

Ideally, cooling to pitching temperature should be done within 1hr or less (easily achievable) although you would be better off allowing the wort to cool over night rather than adding cold water (as long as you cover it and have good sanitation proceesures).

If time is short and or your chilling method isn't that great, as long as you cool you wort to around 104-113 deg c before topping up with cold, you will get pretty good results.

For 5L batches I cool the boiler (stock pot) in a sink of cold water chilled with bottles of ice from the freezer, this produces very bright beer even when chilled.

Ok DAAB, you've now changed my mind for me

After my first brew I decided one of the process changes I was gonna introduce was to add my wort to the fermenter, before adding ice on top of this to bring the temp down quicker. From what you say above, this isn't really the best way of going about it. You recommend actually chilling the wort before it has been diluted, while it's still in the boil pot, right? Maybe I will just surround the wort with ice after all..

Regarding your comment '.. as fast cooling of the beer by adding cold water will not force the proteins out of suspension, the increased volume will actually encorage them to remain in suspension.'

What problems will the remaining proteins cause? This is above my head at this stage, but would be interested to know.

Cheers

 

[DAAB]

This is above my head at this stage, but would be interested to know.

No it's not, you just think it is

An excess of proteins can cause haze in a beer, sometime this haze is always present, others it is only present when the beer is chilled.

A good rolling boil and hot break will cause these proteins to come out of suspension, collide, coagulate and become too large to go back into suspension.

A good cold break (caused by rapid chilling) will cause more proteins to come out of suspension and settle with the rest of the hot break material. It's collectively known as trub. (which you can remove before or after primary fermentation by racking or decanting the beer off of it).

You can assist the coagulation of these proteins during the boil by adding copper finings, this is the general term for Irish Moss, Whirlfloc or Protofloc. (if you dont have any dont worry, not everyone will use them).

You recommend actually chilling the wort before it has been diluted,

Definately...Put your pot/boiler (with the lid on) in an ice bath or even just a bath of cold water, swirl the icy water occasionaly or if you arent using ice, change the water a few times. Lift the lid without disturbing the pot and take a look inside, you will see the proteins coagulate. Check out the picture below of my 7.5L stock pot in the kitchen sink.

I have some pictures of the hot break on my website , i've added the hops before the hot break in the example on the web page, some say it improves the hot break, to be honest I just think it makes more mess if you let the wort boil over

Protein hazes are purely cosmetic.

You might find this article on the different types of finings helpfull...i'd print it out and use it as bathroom reading reading material

 

[Adam's Apples]

Thanks, that's helpful stuff.

Cheers

 

[DAAB]

I forgot to add the link

http://www.murphyandson.co.uk/BrewingArticles/AllBright.htm

 

[Orfy]

Don't forget if you are using LME or DME then it should of been preboiled in the manufacturing process and has already been through the hot and cold break. Some kits should no be boiled due to being prhopped and you'll loose the hop aroma.