Cooling question Worm?

[ShineOn]

Hi folks
New here but not to the fermenting arts

My question is mostly about re-purposing some family know how for brewing

How would a worm and flake stand work as a wort chiller?
For those that don't know what that is, it's basically a coil of copper pipe in a bath of cold water. This is not the same as a counter flow chiller in that the cooling water doesn't really move. Most basic would be a 3/8 or 1/2 OD wound inside a 5 gal bucket filled with icewater. My thinking is Worm is submersed in the water not just relying on a small flowing water jacket. Worms are VERY easy to build, no "moving parts" like in a IC or CFW and VERY efficient....they can knock down steam to warm liquid in the span of about 10 - 15 feet

Thoughts?

Shine On!

 

[WayFrae]

I would just convert the worm into an immersion chiller. It sounds like that is what it is already but you would pump your wort through the coil instead of cold water and that you would use an ice bath in place of your wort. I would just use it as an immersion chiller.

 

[Raybz]

I don't see why it wouldn't work and kinda like the idea of not dealing with as much if any water pressure issues like a hose clamp or solder joint failing. MY concern would be cooling too fast or it being too cold on the output...is that even a valid concern?

 

[JimRausch]

You would be circulating the hot wort through the piping, correct? I don't see why it wouldn't work, although because of the heat transfer you might have to change the ice water at some point. The only thing I would wonder about is the cleanliness and sterility of the inside of the copper coil. Maybe it's not an issue, after all people do use counterflow chillers and plate chillers that have wort flowing through them. Maybe people that use those systems could pipe in with their techniques of keeping internal diameters clean and relatively sterile.
If you do set this up, it would be interesting to get your times to pitching temps.

 

[ShineOn]

I would just convert the worm into an immersion chiller. It sounds like that is what it is already but you would pump your wort through the coil instead of cold water and that you would use an ice bath in place of your wort. I would just use it as an immersion chiller.

Why convert? It's a LOT easier to cool what's in the pipe than what's in the pot using the pipe


Jim---You would be circulating the hot wort through the piping, correct?
Yes wort thru pipe pipe in bucket

Jim-----The only thing I would wonder about is the cleanliness and sterility of the inside of the copper coil.
You run a mild vinegar solution thru it to clean the copper, then rinse with very hot to boiling water, then rinse with starsan to be sure

 

[LandoLincoln]

The problem would be that your cooling water is going to heat up and the longer you cool the less cool the wort's going to get. Your idea could work by recirculating the wort through the system back into the BK and once the entire volume of wort hopefully will be down to pitching temps, then transfer into the fermentor..

Putting together a CFC is very easy and it's pretty cheap. It's a very worthwhile investment in time and money. If you're not wanting to solder any pipes together, you could use compression fittings.

I sterilize my CFC by running close-to-boiling wort through the pipe for a few minutes while the cooling water is turned off. When brew day is over I run water through the system. Done.

 

[sudsstud]

Just like you need to stir or otherwise agitate the wort when using an IC, I think you would need to stir your ice water to keep it moving across the coils. Unless you brew larger than 10 gallon batches, I would just make an IC.
I have an IC and a CFC. The IC is definitely a simpler tool to use and clean.

 

[patthebrewer]

Similar concept to a jockey box......it'll work as long as you keep your water real cold (ice water bath), and keep your flow of wort slow.

Nice handle BTW ;o)

 

[WayFrae]

Why convert? It's a LOT easier to cool what's in the pipe than what's in the pot using the pipe

It's a lot easier to clean the outside instead of the inside of a tube. Also, I think it would take more than 5 gallons of ice water to cool 5 gallons of hot wort. But these are all just our opinions. If you want to use it how you describe, then go for it.

 

[ShineOn]

It's a lot easier to clean the outside instead of the inside of a tube. Also, I think it would take more than 5 gallons of ice water to cool 5 gallons of hot wort. But these are all just our opinions. If you want to use it how you describe, then go for it.

Ok...I buy that in regards to the cleaning (however I doubt I'd even TRY to clean the worms laying around my Dad's place ), didn't mean to sound snarky in my question to you if I did, just looking for pros and cons to my hair brained idea . Cooling water shouldn't be a real issue, there are tons of ways to keep cooling water flowing easly

 

[WayFrae]

Ok...I buy that in regards to the cleaning (however I doubt I'd even TRY to clean the worms laying around my Dad's place ), didn't mean to sound snarky in my question to you if I did, just looking for pros and cons to my hair brained idea . Cooling water shouldn't be a real issue, there are tons of ways to keep cooling water flowing easly

No worries. If you are uncertain of the cleanliness inside the tube then I would use them as ICs but you could always test it with a hot cleanser solution to test the effectiveness of your idea and clean the inside of the tube in one go. Two birds with one stone!

 

[brew_ny]

is yours like this ? I do not see why it would not work pretty well

all the best

S_M

 

[patthebrewer]

Ok...I buy that in regards to the cleaning (however I doubt I'd even TRY to clean the worms laying around my Dad's place ), didn't mean to sound snarky in my question to you if I did, just looking for pros and cons to my hair brained idea . Cooling water shouldn't be a real issue, there are tons of ways to keep cooling water flowing easly

Starsan cleans copper SHINY!!! A quick run with star san ought to clean it

 

[GarageDweller]

3/8" is going to be small for an IC.

I have a cfc and really like it, but I like your idea of just using it as you have previously. keep lots of ice handy and recirculate back to your BK til the wort comes out of the worm at pitching temps, then runoff to your fermentation vessel. easy as pie

 

[WayFrae]

is yours like this ? I do not see why it would not work pretty well

all the best

S_M

I guess I should have looked up how it would work. I didn't realize it had a cold water in and a warm water out. I originally thought the worm would be in a bucket of water/ice with no flow. I like it!

 

[ShineOn]

Yeppers, that's a classic flake stand. The ones I have access to aren't nearly as fancy as that one

 

[ShineOn]

3/8" is going to be small for an IC.

I have a cfc and really like it, but I like your idea of just using it as you have previously. keep lots of ice handy and recirculate back to your BK til the wort comes out of the worm at pitching temps, then runoff to your fermentation vessel. easy as pie

That's what my train of thought was, although I kinda doubt it would need to recirculate to the BK (based on pure speculation!) Might have a chance to do up a test run this weekend (if I get out to the folks house and scrounge one outa the barn or get to the store to get some tube ) If I build a new one I'll snap some pix and post progress and test

I'm almost worried it will drop the temp BELOW pitching temp
How terrible would that be?

 

[masonsjax]

Not a probem at all if you have proper fermentation temp control. Just wait until your wort gets to pitching temp before pitching.

 

[brew_ny]

I'm almost worried it will drop the temp BELOW pitching temp
How terrible would that be?

better cold then too hot

 

[JimRausch]

Interestingly enough, just before I logged on to this site today, I took a look at the 'Beer and Wine Journal' blog. Chris Colby posted an article about using and cleaning CFCs.

 

[Ajb19]

I built a wort chiller this way with a five gallon bucket and 20 feet of 1/4 inch copper tubing. I run star San through and allow to dry to clean the worm and always run water through after use. I put in a 20 lb bag of ice, salt, and then fill near to the top with water. From my experience it cools the wort to 75 F in one pass through the worm. It works great for five gallons but you will need a larger ice bath if you want to do larger batches.

 

[MaryB]

Basically a counter flow chiller on a larger scale...

is yours like this ? I do not see why it would not work pretty well

all the best

S_M

 

[littleguy]

Hey ShineOn???

I have been wondering the very same thing??? So I'm very curious how did this work for you???? My reason for asking is cause I'm new at this and want to do the very same thing.... and if you did have issues what were they???