Cooling 5 gallons without chiller.

[Ron_Blackhurst]

Any ideas on how long 5 gallons will take to chill in a sink with ice? I don't have the money for a chiller right now and want to start doing full boils. I just bought a burner to help me do so.

 

[govner1]

There are a lot of unknowns in your question. Is the wort in a bucket or carboy? If carboy, glass or plastic? How big is the sink? How much ice/water can you get in the sink w/ your wort?


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[Ron_Blackhurst]

I'm trying to cool my brew pot after my boil. I can fit just over a 10lb. Bag of ice in the sink with water. I just don't want to cause any problems by having a really long cooling time before pitching.

 

[Yooper]

I'm trying to cool my brew pot after my boil. I can fit just over a 10lb. Bag of ice in the sink with water. I just don't want to cause any problems by having a really long cooling time before pitching.

10 pounds of ice won't cool 5 gallons of boiling wort. The ice will melt and the water bath will warm.

I have a friend who buys several big bags of ice (about 4?) but I don't know how many pounds that is exactly. It won't fit in a sink, but it puts the ice in a huge cooler (maybe 60 quarts?) and then drops the boil kettle into that. He stirs both the ice bath and the wort and it is pretty cool in about 20 minutes, at least cool enough that he can pitch shortly thereafter.

He puts the boil kettle in that cooler, then keeps the kettle in there and siphons the beer out of it, after draining off some of the warm water. I wouldn't have thought it would work so well- but I've seen it with my own eyes and know it works great for him. But it's probably more like 40 pounds of ice, and not 10.

 

[TheCanisDirus]

In my opinion, the quality you'll get from a slow cooled full-boil 5+ gallons of wort will be of lesser quality that a proper, diluted partial-boil that is chilled much quicker. From time to time i still do a few 2.5 gallon high gravity batches that i'll dilute to 5-6 gallons with sanitary ice (boiled few days before and frozen at -5F) and RO water (water profile tuned)... these turn out just as good as most of my full 5-7gallon batches. It all comes down to proper hop utilization and proper water dilution.

A 5gal full boil that takes over an hour to get to 64 won't be as good (objectively) as a diluted to 5gal partial boil that takes 20 minutes to get to 64. (Again... just my opinion... but i'm sure there are others on here that will share it.)

I suggest keeping to partial boils until you save for some method of wort chilling. Best of luck!

 

[rodwha]

I boil 4 gals and end up with maybe 3.25 gals after a 60 min boil. I stop up the sink and put cold tap water and stir my wort. I do this 3 times for maybe 5 mins each time. Then I get a gallon jug of refrigerated tap water and 3 ice trays of ice and do the same twice. This gets my wort close to 72* in that timeframe.

Of course my volume, being much less, will be easier to cool down, but were you to use more chilled tap water and/or ice I'd think you could get close.

 

[Ron_Blackhurst]

It's not really the price of the chiller I'm worried about. I just hate the idea of wasting 20 gallons of water to chill 5 gallons of beer.

 

[lousbrews]

You could try looking into the Aussie method of cooling with is called no chill. ( hard getting water in some parts) Basically you take the hot wort and put it on a cube that can withstand the heat and cool it using the ambient temperature. The key is use up all the volume in the cube and leave very very little headspace to prevent oxidation from air. Look into it, my girls friends father does this and his beers taste good. You wouldn't even know that he didn't chill them the "proper" way which is relative. Personally I use a plate chiller but I don't see any issue with this method.

 

[TheCanisDirus]

10 pounds of ice won't cool 5 gallons of boiling wort. The ice will melt and the water bath will warm.

I have a friend who buys several big bags of ice (about 4?) but I don't know how many pounds that is exactly. It won't fit in a sink, but it puts the ice in a huge cooler (maybe 60 quarts?) and then drops the boil kettle into that. He stirs both the ice bath and the wort and it is pretty cool in about 20 minutes, at least cool enough that he can pitch shortly thereafter.

He puts the boil kettle in that cooler, then keeps the kettle in there and siphons the beer out of it, after draining off some of the warm water. I wouldn't have thought it would work so well- but I've seen it with my own eyes and know it works great for him. But it's probably more like 40 pounds of ice, and not 10.

Yup this. Years ago in college id do the same in our bath tub... the bottle shop was downstairs and wed grab 2-3 20lb bags of ice. It takes a MINIMUM (at least for us it did in a ~25quart pot) of 50lbs of ice to get to the 20 minute mark. The first immersion cooler i bought was one of the best brewing investment i ever made!

 

[jro238]

I do full 7-7.5 gal boils on my stove split between two pots (definitely a little ghetto, but it works nicely for now). I cool by placing both pots in a bathtub filled with cold water. I have to cycle the water a couple times because it warms up quite a bit but once it gets down to a reasonable temp I toss some ice packs into the tub to bring it down to fermentation temp.

I can bring all of the wort down below 90F within 20 minutes and then I let it cool overnight (I brew late so this is usually only 6 hours or so) with ice until I get into the mid 60s. I do cover my pots with their (tight fitting) lids as soon as I kill the flame and I don't remove the lids until the next morning to avoid any contamination.

 

[SteveHeff]

I usually fill my bathtub, average sized tub, with cold water. I place my pot with the 6-6.5 gallons of wort in to the tub. I allow the cold water to crash the temp down to about 130-140 F. Then I'll drain some water, add in more cold water and dump about 20 lbs of ice in the tub. This method usually takes about 45 minutes. I think that's about the limit for a 5-6 gallon batch if you don't use an immersion chiller.

 

[Spookgolds]

It's not really the price of the chiller I'm worried about. I just hate the idea of wasting 20 gallons of water to chill 5 gallons of beer.

Harvest the water. Use it for cleaning, watering plants, gardening, washing the car... I could go on and on here

 

[ph0ngwh0ng]

It's not really the price of the chiller I'm worried about. I just hate the idea of wasting 20 gallons of water to chill 5 gallons of beer.

Whirlpool the wort slowly (no splashing, you don't want to oxydize the wort) with a grout mixer attached to a drill or a sanitized spoon every now and then while the immersion chiller is in the wort. Also, people often open the faucet at full capacity. This is not efficient at all. If the water comes back cold out of the chiller, you're doing something wrong: either the water flows too fast or you should be gently stirring the wort.

I haven't done any measuring but it hardly takes more than 5 gallons of water to cool the wort to pitching temps.

Like others have said, there are solutions for the environmentaly conscious brewer. I hate "wasting" water too, I'm thinking about collecting rain in a barrel and gravity it through the chiller. I could easily use it to water my garden or plants after that. Or flush the toilet

 

[dsaavedra]

By the time you buy 10 bags of ice you could have bought yourself the materials to make a wort chiller.

 

[Ron_Blackhurst]

Any thoughts on using this pump in an ice bath to circulate through a chiller. It is rated for 158 gph

 

[freisste]

Make a wort chiller and use a pond pump to recirculate water. That makes it a closed system so you don't have a any water going down the drain.

Then freeze water in bags to get big ice cubes. Use these ice cubes to cool the water that goes through the chiller. Once you are at pitching temperature, you can collect the water in bags and re freeze for next time. No waste.

Edit: Mr. Blackhurst beat me by about 30 seconds...I believe that's actually the same pump I used. I think it was like $7.50 from Harbor Freight.

 

[MikePote]

Make a wort chiller and use a pond pump to recirculate water. That makes it a closed system so you don't have a any water going down the drain.

Then freeze water in bags to get big ice cubes. Use these ice cubes to cool the water that goes through the chiller. Once you are at pitching temperature, you can collect the water in bags and re freeze for next time. No waste.

Edit: Mr. Blackhurst beat me by about 30 seconds...I believe that's actually the same pump I used. I think it was like $7.50 from Harbor Freight.

Sounds to me like the best option for your concerns.

I went super cheap on my immersion chiller - only 20' of 3/8" copper and a few fittings. Said and done I was at like $23 and it was the best $23 I have spent on beer. I used to use 2 22lb bags of ice to cool 5 gallons of wort in my utility sink meaning it only took about 4 batches to break even on my chiller. Aside from money it is sooooo much easier than stupid ice baths. If your not sure on building a chiller search the forum for build threads. It really is as easy as it gets and an absolute no brainer to make your brewing life better.

 

[Ron_Blackhurst]

Copper prices are just ridiculous right now

 

[rodwha]

This certainly perked my ears up!

I enjoy building things, and like the idea of it recycling the water.

Found a link...

 

[poptarts]

I "waste" only like 5 gallons of water on chilling and that is if it is a hot day. All the rest goes to cleanup and I store the water for reuse next brewday in a brute trashcan.

 

[rodwha]

I don't mind wasting a little as it's inevitable to some degree. But if I can recycle some if it I'm good with it, and can easily spend some $$$ on something such as that.

My question is how do you properly clean it? Seems you'd need pipe cleaners to get in-between the coils.

 

[Ron_Blackhurst]

Well after being an iron worker for 8 years and now a diesel mechanic for the past 7. I'm sure I can coming up with some kind of chiller design. I may just use all the water for ice bags and my Swamp cooler. That way I will have zero waste.

 

[rekoob]

My question is how do you properly clean it? Seems you'd need pipe cleaners to get in-between the coils.

It's pretty easy to clean up, after I pull it out of the Keggle I drop in the bucket I keep it in that I filled with warm/hot water that I collect, give it a few shakes and rinse with clean water, done. I haven't had any issues keeping it clean, it's been good for years now.

 

[freisste]

My question is how do you properly clean it? Seems you'd need pipe cleaners to get in-between the coils.

If it's an immersion chiller, put it in your boiling wort. This will sanitize it. When you finish cooling, go straight to the sink with it and make sure you get it rinsed well. It will be pretty clean. Shouldn't be any need to do more than that.

If you do need to do more than that, it isn't too difficult. The copper isn't so stiff that you can't separate the cools. Unless you wire them together, which I don't think is necessary. The copper is stiff enough to easily hold its shape under its own weight.

 

[BigRock947]

You could try looking into the Aussie method of cooling with is called no chill. ( hard getting water in some parts) Basically you take the hot wort and put it on a cube that can withstand the heat and cool it using the ambient temperature. The key is use up all the volume in the cube and leave very very little headspace to prevent oxidation from air. Look into it, my girls friends father does this and his beers taste good. You wouldn't even know that he didn't chill them the "proper" way which is relative. Personally I use a plate chiller but I don't see any issue with this method.

If I was to go back to doing 5-gallons batches - I'd do "no chilling" in the brew kettle....

Don't just take my word for it:

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f13/exploring-no-chill-brewing-117111/

 

[WayFrae]

Also, people often open the faucet at full capacity. This is not efficient at all. If the water comes back cold out of the chiller, you're doing something wrong: either the water flows too fast or you should be gently stirring the wort.

It is actually more efficient for heat removal if the water comes out of the chiller cold. If the water comes out hot then it is less efficient because the water has absorbed all the heat it can, possibly only half way through your chiller, thus only utilizing 50% of your chiller. If the water comes out cool, then you can guarantee that every inch of your chiller is being utilized to cool the wort efficiently.

 

[jekeane]

http://www.harborfreight.com/264-gph-submersible-fountain-pump-68395.html

I use this pump which was on sale for $13 I use my hose water to run about 5 gallons into a bucket threw the chiller and I use that water for cleaning. Then I connect the the pump to my chiller and recirculate into a 5g bucket filled with water and ice packs made from 20oz soda bottles. Cools the wort to 65-70 in 30 minutes max outdoors in florida. Uses 8 - 10 G water max of which 5 is for cleaning and rinsing.

I have a 50ft 3/8 in copper chiller I built in about 45 minutes for about $65

 

[dyqik]

Fill the sink with water from the cold tap and stir both the wort and water until they get close to equilibrium. Dump the water (or transfer the warm water to a bucket for cleaning). (if desired: refill the sink, repeat). Then refill the sink and add the ice. This will use far less ice and energy than trying to cool 210F wort with ice directly.

This also works if you are using a pond pump with an immersion chiller (which is just a fancy way of stirring and increasing the surface area to speed up reaching equilibrium - you need to stir the wort as well though) - don't add any ice until you can't cool the wort any further with tap water, and use your first batch of cooling water for cleaning.

 

[freisste]

It is actually more efficient for heat removal if the water comes out of the chiller cold. If the water comes out hot then it is less efficient because the water has absorbed all the heat it can, possibly only half way through your chiller, thus only utilizing 50% of your chiller. If the water comes out cool, then you can guarantee that every inch of your chiller is being utilized to cool the wort efficiently.

It is more EFFICIENT to move the water slowly, but more EFFECTIVE to move the water quickly.

 

[skw]

No chill brewing will do the job just fine. If your fermenter can handle it (HDPE will), rack the hot wort straight from the brew kettle into the fermenter. The hot wort will pasteurize the surfaces that it touches (but your fermenter is clean anyway, right). Put it somewhere cool until the temperature is ready to pitch.