Controller troubleshooting help

[BigJay13]

A few of you have helped me get my second hand diy 50A controller up and running. It’s done probably 8 batches without a hitch since I got it going earlier this year. I installed a hop stopper from Kal this week—moving my element slightly (I’m talking the end of it away from the TC fitting less than 1/8”). Last night when I filled up the kettle it had a slow leak so I removed the element (it has a TC fitting on it) and tightened down the port and the nut. Today my brew day went great until I got the kettle full and I noticed it wasn’t heating up (it stopped around 195). After a quick check with the multimeter I lost power through the circuit breaker before the SSR. I’ve got 240 coming in at 16 going out. I double checked the element with the HLT PID and it seems to be working right. Does the voltage drop through the circuit breaker mean that the breaker is toast or is there something else going on downstream that could cause this? Once the beer is out of the kettle I’ll try to trouble shoot some more tomorrow. Luckily I was able to hold at 195 and it’s a NEIPA so I’ll try out the no boil/hop stand technique. Thanks in advance!

 

[doug293cz]

A few of you have helped me get my second hand diy 50A controller up and running. It’s done probably 8 batches without a hitch since I got it going earlier this year. I installed a hop stopper from Kal this week—moving my element slightly (I’m talking the end of it away from the TC fitting less than 1/8”). Last night when I filled up the kettle it had a slow leak so I removed the element (it has a TC fitting on it) and tightened down the port and the nut. Today my brew day went great until I got the kettle full and I noticed it wasn’t heating up (it stopped around 195). After a quick check with the multimeter I lost power through the circuit breaker before the SSR. I’ve got 240 coming in at 16 going out. I double checked the element with the HLT PID and it seems to be working right. Does the voltage drop through the circuit breaker mean that the breaker is toast or is there something else going on downstream that could cause this? Once the beer is out of the kettle I’ll try to trouble shoot some more tomorrow. Luckily I was able to hold at 195 and it’s a NEIPA so I’ll try out the no boil/hop stand technique. Thanks in advance!

Can you provide some pictures of where you are placing the test probes when you measure 16V? If you measure between the hot pins of the disconnected element, it should read 10.5 ohms (assuming a 5500W element.) Also, if you have an electrical diagram of your controller, would you post it.

Brew on

 

[BigJay13]

Can you provide some pictures of where you are placing the test probes when you measure 16V? If you measure between the hot pins of the disconnected element, it should read 10.5 ohms (assuming a 5500W element.) Also, if you have an electrical diagram of your controller, would you post it.

Brew on

I measured it at the output of the circuit, before going to the SSR. I measured it when it should have been sending 240V to the element. I think I need to know what to test to figure out what failed. What was weird to me is the loss of power to the element without tripping the circuit.

 

[BigJay13]

So I just tested it again…works for about 20-30 seconds then loses power as tested through the circuit.

 

[BigJay13]

Upon further review I found a melted connection where the black wires come together shown in the picture. The top left wire feeds the BK circuit breaker so I am assuming this is the issue and not the breaker. I will replace those wires and the connection but what would have caused that?

 

[doug293cz]

Upon further review I found a melted connection where the black wires come together shown in the picture. The top left wire feeds the BK circuit breaker so I am assuming this is the issue and not the breaker. I will replace those wires and the connection but what would have caused that?

That looks like you have a serious wiring error. The jumper between the two hot line in the terminal strip looks to have overheated and maybe even melted. Either the terminal strip jumper is way to small for the current involved, or you accidentally connected hot1 and hot2 to the same terminal block, causing a short.

Where does each of the four wires from the affected terminal block go?

Brew on

 

[BigJay13]

That looks like you have a serious wiring error. The jumper between the two hot line in the terminal strip looks to have overheated and maybe even melted. Either the terminal strip jumper is way to small for the current involved, or you accidentally connected hot1 and hot2 to the same terminal block, causing a short.

Where does each of the four wires from the affected terminal block go?

Brew on

I took pictures of where I had them going. It does looks like I had them screwed up now that I look at my diagram. I had the two wires that should have gone from the top of each of the two pole breakers into the the terminal were actually going from the bottom of the circuit to the terminal. The other two terminal wires were feeding the panel coil and the 15a breaker. The terminal block did melt a little. It was rated for 600V and 60a.

 

[BigJay13]

Bump—could a lose wire have caused this? When I took out the wires the one going to the circuit controlling the BK element popped right out so I’m assuming that was loose.

 

[Broken Crow]

Yes. I've repaired panels and welders for the same reason; a loose wire means the full contact surface is simply not making the contact and the full current being forced through a smaller contact area generates a lot of local heat and occasionally arcs which only makes the problem worse.

 

[doug293cz]

Bump—could a lose wire have caused this? When I took out the wires the one going to the circuit controlling the BK element popped right out so I’m assuming that was loose.

Doesn't look like a typical loose terminal screw failure to me. For those, the burned zone is centered at the screw. In the photo you show the burn zone is centered at the jumper between the two terminal blocks. In general the burning takes place where the heat is being generated. So, in your case, the heat was being generated in the jumper itself, IMO.

Brew on

 

[Broken Crow]

Sorry! I should have looked at your earlier picture.. doug293cz is totally right on that.. the jumper may have been underrated.