Controller question

[P-J]

P-J, would it work if I switched both PID's off switch #1 instead of feeding them from 15 15 amp CB? For emample, HLT PID power is switched on pin 10 or 4 and BK PID is switched on pin 6 or 12.

The issue that I see is how to deliver the power to the element pairs and prevent both sets being powered at the same time. With one power source that was accomplished in the last diagram. With a second PID, the power now becomes 2 sources that are independently controlled. With that said, I'm at a loss on how to interlock them. I don't believe shutting the PID down is a viable solution.

It would be far easier to use the single PID and install a second temp probe in the boil kettle. Then use a switch to swap probes as needed.

 

[bowhuntah]

The issue that I see is how to deliver the power to the element pairs and prevent both sets being powered at the same time. With one power source that was accomplished in the last diagram. With a second PID, the power now becomes 2 sources that are independently controlled. With that said, I'm at a loss on how to interlock them. I don't believe shutting the PID down is a viable solution.

It would be far easier to use the single PID and install a second temp probe in the boil kettle. Then use a switch to swap probes as needed.

My Dad always did tell me that the KISS method is the best method.

 

[gibbsdoc]

You may wish to use relays after the PID to direct the current. For example a double pole relay could be used to send the current to one of the kettles or to the other and never to both at the same time.

 

[P-J]

You may wish to use relays after the PID to direct the current. For example a double pole relay could be used to send the current to one of the kettles or to the other and never to both at the same time.

That is exactly what it is set up to have happen with the switch. Now with 2 elements in each kettle and 2 independent power sources (actually it's 4 sources wth a second PID), it becomes a little more complex.

 

[LakewoodBrew]

Well, after a lot of brain storming over this, I've not been able to come up with a wiring solution incorporating 2 PIDs and have it so that only 2 elements can be energized at any time.

Sorry.

it's a little different from your usual homebrew wiring setup, but you can do it with logic gates. You need four AND gates and a double pole 3 position on-off-on switch.

 

[P-J]

P-J, I decided to go with 2 PID's. I was thinking of switching the through switch #1 along with the elements. Do you see any issues with this?

Well, after a lot of brain storming over this, I've not been able to come up with a wiring solution incorporating 2 PIDs and have it so that only 2 elements can be energized at any time.

P-J, would it work if I switched both PID's off switch #1 instead of feeding them from 15 15 amp CB? For emample, HLT PID power is switched on pin 10 or 4 and BK PID is switched on pin 6 or 12.

The issue that I see is how to deliver the power to the element pairs and prevent both sets being powered at the same time. With one power source that was accomplished in the last diagram. With a second PID, the power now becomes 2 sources that are independently controlled. With that said, I'm at a loss on how to interlock them. I don't believe shutting the PID down is a viable solution.

It would be far easier to use the single PID and install a second temp probe in the boil kettle. Then use a switch to swap probes as needed.

This whole thing has been driving me crazy. (Not that I'm not there already.) I've spent many many hours trying to conger up a simple method to accomplish what you want to do. No dice.!

Last night I woke up at about 3AM with my mind running in over drive. I got it.!!! It's really so damn simple.!!!

Check out the diagram and see if it fits the bill. I added a DPDT relay to the mix and some wire. That is all there is (OH: Plus the second PID and second temp probe that you wanted to use.) The circuit works as you wanted it to. Each PID controls the kettle asigned and monitors the temperature in that kettle. When power is switched from HLT to BOIL the control is handed over to the proper PID. However each PID full time monitors the temp in its associated kettle.

Job is done.!!!

(Usual drill - Click on the image to see a full scale image that is printable on Tabloid paper 11" x 17")



I sure hope this is of some help.
Please let me know.

P-J

 

[bowhuntah]

P-J, that's awesome! I can't thank you enough! Sorry to wake you up at 3AM Though.

 

[bowhuntah]

http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail...=sGAEpiMZZMtSzCF3XBhmW7nRSRDOvRrSyjLaAqDnUng=

Is this the correct relay?

 

[bowhuntah]

Never mind....found it in the legend.

 

[P-J]

Relay:
http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/OMRON-Square-Base-General-Purpose-Relay-5ZJ04
Relay Socket:
http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/OMRON-Relay-Socket-4KN18

It is my understandng that the socket can also be DIN rail mounted like the breakers.

 

[P-J]

Never mind....found it in the legend.

Yea, I try to give the info when I put diagrams together. Just posted the links as it's easier to click it than type it out.

 

[bowhuntah]

P-J, the relay is energized via switch #1 pin #6? If so, doesn't the diagram show the HLT PID controlling the boil and vice versa?

 

[P-J]

P-J, the relay is energized via switch #1 pin #6? If so, doesn't the diagram show the HLT PID controlling the boil and vice versa?

No. The diagram is shown with no power being delivered to it. The relay is shown in it's normally closed position. Switch #1 is shown in the "boil" position as that is how I drew it.

HTH

 

[P-J]

Just a tidbit of info on how I do things in my drawings to avoid some of the confusion:

An example - A switch drawing and explanation that I did a few years ago for someone that didn't understand how I did an illustration:

And then switch #1 in your diagram with all of the bits and pieces before I put it together:

Which ends up as this in the drawing:

Yea, Sometimes I go crazy in the detail and accuracy I try to achieve. I guess I could have illustrated it in the center off position to avoid some confusion.
Sorry for that - my bad.
Mea culpa.

P-J

 

[P-J]

Getting old sucks.

Just for my peace of mind with this whole thing, I redrew Switch-1 so that it is shown in the Center Off position. This way the entire diagram is shown with all of the switches in the off position. So, now it does not matter if the plan is visualized with power on or off.

Not to break the progress of the changes within this thread, it is a new drawing with a different name.

Click on the image to see the full scale diagram printable on Tabloid paper (11" x 17"):



P-J

 

[beermac]

I have a 30 gal boil pot with two 5500 watt/240V ULD heat elements and found it to be very economical and quiet !! When analyzing what a PID does you may wonder what will it do to control boil overs. A PID with a PL 100 or equiv thermocouple controls the temp of a process (PV) and not the energy input (rate of boil). The PV temp will be 212 and will stay at 212 until all the wort is boiled away. Mother nature guarrantees that. Temp control is not needed, however, energy input to the heaters will control boil overs. I use PID's for my HLT and Mashtun. For the boil tank I use a 80 amp Crydom random switching (as aposed to a zero-crossing) SSR, available at Newark Electronics controlled with a SSRMAN-1P control board which attaches directly to the SSR. A potentiometer or PID, if you need to get real precise, can be used to control the SSRMAN-1P which in turn controls the SSR which controls the amount of energy sent to the heating elements. Sounds complicated but simpler and more effective than a PID. I turn up the heat, get thru hot break and turn down the heat to maintain the rolling boil you like and let it go. The heat element does not cycle from full-on to totally-off as the PID would do and greatly reduces any chance of scorching.

 

[bowhuntah]

I'm making some progress on my controller. It's about 90% complete.

 

[jsguitar]

Looking good bowhuntah. That's a beastly system you're working on. Looking forward to seeing the rest of it.

 

[bowhuntah]

This project has been a lot more work than I expected...rewarding though.

Kettles finally arrived!

 

[Ppeg34]

I am following this schematic loosely for my own brewery.

The three way switch is rated only for 9 amps at 250v though. It is rated for 25 amps at 125 v. Since we are running 240 v through the heating elements will this be a problem?

 

[bowhuntah]

I am following this schematic loosely for my own brewery.

The three way switch is rated only for 9 amps at 250v though. It is rated for 25 amps at 125 v. Since we are running 240 v through the heating elements will this be a problem?

Hopefully P-J will see this and address your concerns.

 

[Ppeg34]

I am following this schematic loosely for my own brewery.

The three way switch is rated only for 9 amps at 250v though. It is rated for 25 amps at 125 v. Since we are running 240 v through the heating elements will this be a problem?

Bump

 

[P-J]

The switch is A-OK for the application that I used it. There is NO problem what so ever.

 

[bowhuntah]

A huge thank you to P-J for all his help and guidance! Just testing the system with water right now but seems to be working flawlessly.

 

[Ppeg34]

Thank you P-J. That is quite a relief.