Control Panel Build/ Rig upgrade

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de3isit

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Let me start by saying thank you to everyone who has posted their projects. I rarely come up with my own great ideas, most of them are crafted from what others have done. So thank you all.

I currently have a single tier rig with 3 BG14 burners. 2 are controlled by Honeywell electronic ignition and one is by a ball valve.

18 final.jpg

I have been drooling over other peoples control panels and wanted to take my set up to the next level. Here is what the plan is.

  • Add a RIMS tube
  • Add electronic ignition on BK
  • Add control panel w/ 2 PIDs
  • Add a second pump for fly sparging

So first off I wanted to find a schematic for the system that fit the bill, which was pretty tricky since my system will be a cross between an electric RIMS system and a gas direct fire system. P-J was kind enough to create a drawing that got me going. Here is the basis of the design.

Honeywell-gas-controller-setup-wiring4-a3-2.jpg

As you will see when I start showing the actual panel, I changed it up a little as the build started. P-J's schematic really helped a ton as I haven't done much electrical work since electronics class in high school over 20 years ago.

My skills do not allow me to make changes to P-J's schematic so I will just list them.

  • Removed the PID on the BK and just made it a push button
  • Added a push button to direct fire the MLT via electonic ignition
  • Added a second Pump
  • Removed the power button
 
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de3isit

de3isit

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de3isit

de3isit

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Here is a quick update before I head out to a few of the local breweries.

Here is nearly all of the components to start the build. I got most of the parts from EBrew Supply and Auber.

20130819_171735 (1).jpg

First off I laid out all of the controls using cut out templates to make sure it all fit properly.

20130822_130502.jpg

I used a spring loaded punch to mark the pilot holes for the 1/2" knock out.

20130823_135809.jpg

The 1/2" knock out tool made quick work of all the holes. Definitely worth every penny I spent on it.

20130823_142719.jpg

The holes on the bottom were made with a step bit and a hole saw. I had to go back and cut out the two outlet holes for the pumps.

20130824_125956.jpg

Now that the grunt work is done the fun part begins.
 
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de3isit

de3isit

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UPDATE

20130824_164320.jpg

I got all of the holes drilled and mounted the components. I had to go back and add the two pump outlets not in the picture. I also had to turn the door lock 90 degrees to make it fit properly. I did not take the size into account when laying out the boil switch. oops.

20130825_155626.jpg

The panel is only 5" deep so it took a little time to get all of the interior components to fit without touching the the PID's and switches. You can see the two pump outlets that were added in this picture.

So far so good. Next up is to start wiring.
 
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de3isit

de3isit

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Update
So I tried my hand at wiring today. I made quite a few errors along the way, but ultimately got it all worked out without letting the smoke out.

20130827_111551.jpg

20130827_111657(0).jpg

This is the first wiring attempt before working out all of the bugs. Once the testing is competed I will clean it up to make it a presentable wiring job. More pictures to follow.
 
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de3isit

de3isit

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Update

Not a huge update. It has been over 100 degrees for the last week, so working in the garage hasn't been very appealing, but I did get a few small things completed.

20130906_161223.jpg

I got the RIMS tube element installed as well as the cord built. I looks super cool.

20130906_161330.jpg

The temp probes are built as well. I followed the instructions on Kal's site, with a few modifications. I used the 1/16" cable from Lowes instead of ordering 100' of the recommended cable.(smallest qty available) So I used 1/4" sleeve to fit over everything. Turned out pretty nice.

20130906_163428.jpg

Everything powered up nicely. I found that a number of the switches and outlets were crossed. Since I didn't mark them on the inside of the panel I visually mixed them up. Nothing that swapping a few wires on the switches couldn't fix. I also boiled a pot of water to check that the probes worked properly. So far so good.

Hopefully the heat will let up and I can start reworking my old control panel. The plan is to make it a sub panel mounted under the rig to house the ignition controls. This will eliminate any issues with interference with the PID's.
 
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de3isit

de3isit

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Ran into a small issue this past week. My kegerator died! I spent a few days in Vegas on business and came home with food poisoning.

I got a 15 cubic feet chest freezer on CL for $200, and it is only a year old. Now I can get back to rebuilding my rig.

Kegerator.jpg
 

Bigscience

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Looking great. How'd you cut the holes for the PID? For the outlet at the bottom, did you tap the holes for the screws or use nuts on the inside?
 
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de3isit

de3isit

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I used a jig saw for the PID and a hole saw for the large outlet on the bottom. A step bit was used for the smaller probe holes.
 
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de3isit

de3isit

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Update

It is finally cooling off enough to get some work done.

So I took the old control panel off the front of my rig and removed all of the guts from it. Then I mounted a third ignition module it it so that all three burners will be turned on and off at the main control panel. I sealed up all of the holes with metal tape to make it semi-waterproof and mounted it below the gas valves on the right side.
Ignition Sub Panel.jpg

Once All of the testing is done The sub panel will be covered with a piece of Diamond plate that I cut to fit over it, so you won't even know the panel is there.

I built three ignition cables to get power from the control panel to the sub panel. They were built in a similar fashion as the temperature probe leads. I didn't use the braided cable on them since the wire is 14 gauge and I ran out of it. Truth be told.
Ignition Cables.jpg

I did a quick test to make sure everything works the way it is supposed to and we got fire.

Next is to finish the gas plumbing on the new BK gas valve, mount the RIMS tube and control panel.

I am really struggling on coming up with a good way to mount the RIMS tube and control panel. If anyone has any good suggestions and possible pictures that would be awesome.
 
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de3isit

de3isit

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Update

Got quite a bit done today. I got the new BK gas valve plumbed in and leak tested. All three ignition module are wired up in the sub panel.

Hidden Ignition Panel.jpg

I drilled a hole in the diamond plate and put a 3/4" plastic conduit fitting to feed all of the wiring into the sub panel without any potential abrasion.

Wire Feed.jpg

Ran a quick ignition test on all of the burners through the control panel. Also got the pump wired as well. Everything worked perfectly.

Burner Test.jpg

The only thing left is to mount the RIMS tube and the control panel. Still looking for a good way to mount them both.

Rig.jpg
 

MDhokiehb

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Hey thanks for posting all the pictures and diagrams this is similar to what I'm trying to do with my sculpture. What kind of gas valves did you use? I'm having trouble trying to pick out the right ones and the price variance is ridiculous. Thanks and keep the updates coming!
 

P-J

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...

My skills do not allow me to make changes to P-J's schematic so I will just list them.

  • Removed the PID on the BK and just made it a push button
  • Added a push button to direct fire the MLT via electonic ignition
  • Added a second Pump
  • Removed the power button
I discovered your thread this morning so I went and modified the drawing so that it fits your description a little better.

I didn't include a push button for the MLT as the PID SYL-2342 has a manual mode built in so a separate switch for direct fire is not needed.
(Just saying).

And as always - click on the image to see and save a full scale diagram that is printable on Tabloid paper (11" x 17")



Anyway, I hope this helps you.

P-J
 
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de3isit

de3isit

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Hey thanks for posting all the pictures and diagrams this is similar to what I'm trying to do with my sculpture. What kind of gas valves did you use? I'm having trouble trying to pick out the right ones and the price variance is ridiculous. Thanks and keep the updates coming!
I used the Honeywell VR8345M4302 with the S8610U3009 ignition module and the Q3451U1000 intermittent pilot burner. Let me know if you need any other info.
 
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de3isit

de3isit

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I discovered your thread this morning so I went and modified the drawing so that it fits your description a little better.

I didn't include a push button for the MLT as the PID SYL-2342 has a manual mode built in so a separate switch for direct fire is not needed.
(Just saying).

And as always - click on the image to see and save a full scale diagram that is printable on Tabloid paper (11" x 17")



Anyway, I hope this helps you.

P-J
Thanks. The reason for the MLT having a separate push button is because there is a gas valve for the HLT and the MLT. The HLT goes through the SLY-2342 and the MLT is just on/off to preheat water. I figured since I had three burners already why not use them all.
 

P-J

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Thanks. The reason for the MLT having a separate push button is because there is a gas valve for the HLT and the MLT. The HLT goes through the SLY-2342 and the MLT is just on/off to preheat water. I figured since I had three burners already why not use them all.
Ok - I understand now. I didn't realize that you had set up a 3 vessel system (HLT, MLT & BOIL - plus the RIMS). I thought you were wanting 2 separate control methods for a single vessel HLT/MLT

I'll see what I can do to come up with a new version of the diagram for you. Just give me a day or two.

P-J
 
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de3isit

de3isit

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Update

Today I performed a boil test and an auto tune on the PID's. This is my first tome using PID's, so it took a little research to understand the needed settings to get them to work correctly. The RIMS tube auto tune was super easy and quick. The HLT gas valve auto tune, on the other hand, took a quite a bit longer. I had to run it twice before it worked. It kept over shooting the set value by about 3 degrees, but eventually dialed it in.

Boil Test.jpg

After the boil test I cut a piece of flat stock to mock up the RIMS tube placement. Currently it is held in place with a c-clamp. I have a brew scheduled for next Sunday. After that I will weld the a bracket in place if everything works well.

RIMS Tube Mock Up.jpg
 

P-J

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de3isit,

I modified the drawing and hope it now fits your desired result a lot better.
Please let me know.

And as always - click on the image to see and save a full scale diagram that is printable on Tabloid paper (11" x 17")



Anyway, I hope this helps you.

P-J
 
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de3isit

de3isit

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de3isit,

I modified the drawing and hope it now fits your desired result a lot better.
Please let me know.

And as always - click on the image to see and save a full scale diagram that is printable on Tabloid paper (11" x 17")



Anyway, I hope this helps you.

P-J
That would be it exactly. Thanks for all the help. Your drawings made it much easier to get it all up and running.

I am doing the first brew next weekend to celebrate my new set up and the new gift I got from my wife.

Whiskey Barrel.jpg

Going to brew an imperial Irish Red to put in it.
 

owentp

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Does anybody have a PDF or WORD document of that wiring diagram? Whenever I try to print it from here it is too fuzzy to read the detail?
 

P-J

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Does anybody have a PDF or WORD document of that wiring diagram? Whenever I try to print it from here it is too fuzzy to read the detail?
I just set it up as a Microsoft Word document but I am fairly sure that it will not help you as the document specifies my printer which I'm sure you do not have. Also the document is set to print on 11" X 17" paper. It prints perfectly on my system.

Is your printer capable of printing 11" X 17" documents (Tabloid Paper)? If it is, you can easily print the picture straight out as the JPG image I posted. The image also prints as a JPG file perfectly on my system.

BTW - You get to the large image file by clicking your mouse on the image that is displayed in my forum post. The large image will open in a new Windows display frame on your computer. Save it from there.

Please let me know.

P-J
 

owentp

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I think I have it figured out but will let you know when I start my build.


Thanks!
 
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de3isit

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I haven't had an update in a while. I am ordering labels this week to finish off my panel. still struggling with the mounting arm design, I am thinking about ordering a TV mounting arm instead of building one.

Any thoughts?
 
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de3isit

de3isit

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I still haven't decided on a mounting system for the RIMS tube or the control panel. Tomorrow is the first test brew to figure out if everything is dialed in. hopefully I will get an idea on the kind of mounts as well. Doing an Imperial Irish Red that will be barrel aged in a Rye whiskey barrel.
 
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de3isit

de3isit

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So the first run with the new system went really well. We shaved nearly an hour off of the brew process by using the RIMS tube and the MLT burner to get up to mash temperature. We did the same process when we were getting up to the boil.

Pilot Run.jpg

Boil.jpg

The RIMS tube placement was perfect. The only issue is the wort loss when moving the hoses around.
The overall efficiency went from 75% to 98%. The OG was supposed to come in at 1.063 and came in at 1.087.
 

scarnera

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It appears to me that you do not have a light go on and off on the 2342 to indicate when you have a call for heat. Is this correct?

I have a very similar build and am using the 2342's and HW valves. I am using 7 and 8 to control the valves and thought I could use those as well to control a light for each PID to indicate the call for heat. Unfortunetly the lights are turning off on the call for heat and on when there is no call for heat. 24V is running through 7 and 8 when there is no call for heat and 0V when there is a call for heat.

The remainder of the system is working perfectly inclding the values. Just this one little "feature" that is driving me nuts.

Very nice build!
 
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de3isit

de3isit

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You're correct. I am only using a light on the RIMS tube as I want to make sure it doesn't fire dry. The HLT makes an audible spark so you know it is coming on, and once it is at temperature it doesn't come on very often. Maybe once every 10 or 15 minutes.

As for your lights, I would run a leg direct to neutral and the second leg to 7. That should give you the result you are looking for.
 

scarnera

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You're correct. I am only using a light on the RIMS tube as I want to make sure it doesn't fire dry. The HLT makes an audible spark so you know it is coming on, and once it is at temperature it doesn't come on very often. Maybe once every 10 or 15 minutes.

As for your lights, I would run a leg direct to neutral and the second leg to 7. That should give you the result you are looking for.
Let me know the next time you are in the DFW area, You will have several cold one's waiting for you.

Thanks for the help! Worked as you suggested.

Seve
 
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de3isit

de3isit

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That's awesome to hear! Glad to help as I have received much of the same help.
 

luhrks

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So the first run with the new system went really well. We shaved nearly an hour off of the brew process by using the RIMS tube and the MLT burner to get up to mash temperature. We did the same process when we were getting up to the boil.

The RIMS tube placement was perfect. The only issue is the wort loss when moving the hoses around.
The overall efficiency went from 75% to 98%. The OG was supposed to come in at 1.063 and came in at 1.087.
That's how I run it on my system. And I've learned to make all my recipes at 95%
 

walte1fr

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Wow I definitely need to build a new system. I'm getting 57% but with my upgraded system I am thinking about moving it to my basement which would cause me to go electric. Been debating about herms or rims. Still trying to get an idea and look at pros and cons of both.
 
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de3isit

de3isit

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Update

So I got the RIMS tube bracket welded in place. I also went to the metal surplus store and got a piece of 1.5" tube steel and a 6"x6" plate to build the control arm. It may be a little long, but I wanted to make sure it was far enough away from the heat.

control arm.jpg

Today I got bored and tore the whole thing apart to put a nice coat of paint on it. The top stayed flat black and the rest is a gloss blue.

new paint2.jpg
new paint.jpg
 
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de3isit

de3isit

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Update

So I finished reassembling everything tonight. The gas pipe was pretty rusty so I sanded it down and put a coat of flat black on it. The only thing left is to pick up a couple bolts to mount the plate chiller and to fire up the burners to heat treat the paint.

new paint job.jpg

gas pipe paint.jpg
 
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de3isit

de3isit

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Update

So I think everything is pretty much done now. (Until my next upgrade) I got all of the tags on today. Now it looks legit.

panel tags.jpg
 
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de3isit

de3isit

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P-J,
I brewed last weekend and everything turned out awesome. Thanks for all the help. I do have a question though. Just for giggles I hit the E-stop and nothing happened. The wiring is pretty straight forward so I don't think I screwed it up. Is there something I should be looking for?

Again, the brew day went exceptionally well.
 
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