Consecration kit from MoreBeer

[hllywd]

After initial fermentation with the Abbey Ale and then transferring to a different carboy and adding the Brett and currants, directions say to wait 7-8 weeks before adding Lacto and Peddio (or Roselare blend). Are you guys transferring again to a new carboy before pitching the Roselare? Mostly I'm wondering if you're leaving the beer on the currants beyond 8 weeks or removing the beer from the currants (or somehow removing currants from the beer).


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My Abbey Ale ferment went off pretty fast. Made an overnight starter with the currants, a quart of starter wort, and a package of Roselare then racked the 1.012 beer onto that after it had been in primary for about 4 days IIRC. My finished beer looks, and tastes like Consecration, but is not as tart in a side by side comparison with the real thing after about a year and a half since brew day. I bottled it in corkable bottles from a keg just a couple months ago. It was on the currants the entire time with the Roselare until kegging back around the first of the year. I had the oak in it for about the last two months before kegging. I would definately not wait 7 or 8 weeks to add the bugs.

 

[hllywd]

Mine is coming up on 18 months old this month 7 months on currents that have all dropped to the bottom, probably time to package. Its tucked in a dark corner of my basement and with all the other projects I have going right now I actually kind of forgot about it until I was moving things around this weekend.

It was a good idea to forget this one Coff! It paid off. Do you have your oak in it yet? I had mine in for about the last 2 months before I kegged. I kept the oak from my first batch, and intend to add that at the same time as the bugs for the second batch. It should be well inoculated!

 

[Coff]

Just added the oak this weekend. I will likely give it at least a month with it before I package.

 

[FredTheNuke]

My Abbey Ale ferment went off pretty fast. Made an overnight starter with the currants, a quart of starter wort, and a package of Roselare then racked the 1.012 beer onto that after it had been in primary for about 4 days IIRC. My finished beer looks, and tastes like Consecration, but is not as tart in a side by side comparison with the real thing after about a year and a half since brew day. I bottled it in corkable bottles from a keg just a couple months ago. It was on the currants the entire time with the Roselare until kegging back around the first of the year. I had the oak in it for about the last two months before kegging. I would definately not wait 7 or 8 weeks to add the bugs.

Those 7-8 weeks are to allow the Brett bugs that you just added to get a good start (also why you drop to 60 degrees during that time). If you add the Roeselare too early the other bugs will overtake the Brett.

 

[mhot55]

I added Brett and currants after 4 weeks of belgian yeast (down to 1.016). After 8 weeks on Brett (down to 1.007-9) dumped roselaere blend into it. Come around after 7 months on roselaere, I dumped Cabernet soaked Oakes cubes in. (Cubes were vacuum sealed with the cab for over 6 months). I sorta just let it go since. The oak has been in it for 6 months- roselaere for 13 months, Brett & currants for 15 months, and it's been 16 months since initial ferment. Smells great. Just been too lazy to bottle. I'm not concerned with the length on the oak because I had the cubes soaking in Cabernet for a long time........I hope!

 

[mhot55]

Anyone know the carbonation level for this? I've never had it before so I can't guess. Plus I've seen people review this by saying carbonation was lively and sprite, medium, and also on the low end?????? I doubt RR quality control is such that they can't nail down a consistent level. But reviews are ALL OVER THE PLACE with the level of carbonation. I know the acidic level may give it a seemingly higher feel of CO2 than it actually has. I was assuming around 2.3-2.4 vol CO2, but I'd rather not assume

 

[italarican]

I added Brett and currants after 4 weeks of belgian yeast (down to 1.016). After 8 weeks on Brett (down to 1.007-9) dumped roselaere blend into it. Come around after 7 months on roselaere, I dumped Cabernet soaked Oakes cubes in. (Cubes were vacuum sealed with the cab for over 6 months). I sorta just let it go since. The oak has been in it for 6 months- roselaere for 13 months, Brett & currants for 15 months, and it's been 16 months since initial ferment. Smells great. Just been too lazy to bottle. I'm not concerned with the length on the oak because I had the cubes soaking in Cabernet for a long time........I hope!

How long after adding the roeselare did you start getting hints of sour? I've basically followed your steps up to adding the roeselare. It's been 4.5 months and no sourness is detectable.

Edit: nevermind... just took a sample, and there it is! Couldn't detect any when I last checked 3 weeks ago.

 

[TrickyDick]

I haven't tasted mine yet. Brewed in November. I pitched half with roeselare. The currants started falling out in the last month. The other half I did the Vinnie way, and the currants have also started falling, but still much more in that. I also added some oak soaked with cab and heat cycled in microwave. I found out my oak was unused, new stave segments, so I really hope its not too overpowering. Hopefully boiling in water and then micro-zapping in a few fingers of Cabernet wine a few times to heat and cool will zap some of the big oak you'd expect from unused wood.

I am curious though about a pellicle. I have yet to see one in either fermenter. The one I pitched with roeselare from day one had some funk on the top of the currants, but I no longer see that.

TD


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[FredTheNuke]

is anyone punching down the currants (much like grapes in wine making)?

 

[TrickyDick]

Not that anyone has mentioned in the thread so far. I often hear this term "punch down". I envision a potato masher being shoved into the fermentation vessel. In my case it's a plastic carboy so it wouldn't fit through the neck. What does this mean exactly?

TD


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[Kershner_Ale]

I am curious though about a pellicle. I have yet to see one in either fermenter. The one I pitched with roeselare from day one had some funk on the top of the currants, but I no longer see that.

TD


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I'm almost four months since pitching the Roselare blend in mine and no pellicle has formed. Word I received was don't worry about it, one May not form at all. It's more a factor of how much O2 is getting into your fermenter.



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[Coff]

is anyone punching down the currants (much like grapes in wine making)?

The currants in mine eventually dropped to the bottom on their own, if thats what youre worried about. I dont see a need to press them while in the beer if thats what youre going for.

 

[FredTheNuke]

Punching down is the process of sinking the solid currants/grapes/etc back into the liquid so no part dries out and all parts ferment instead of floating in air. I know in wine making it is a daily chore early on in the must making. Coff answered my primary question - eventually they will sink. if the top dries a bit that is ok - what is it gonna do grow bacteria or something? LOL

Wikipedia definition:

Throughout the fermentation process, carbon dioxide is released as a byproduct of the conversion of sugar into alcohol. The carbon dioxide seeks to escape from the must by rising to the top of the mixture, pushing the grape skins and other materials to the top as well. This forms what is known as a cap that is visible on top of the fermentation vessel. At this point, a very limited amount of the must comes into contact with the skins, and winemakers seek to correct this by pushing down the cap (either with equipment or the traditional method of treading with their feet) or by pumping wine out from under and over onto the cap. This process of "pumping over" or "punching down" the cap is done often throughout the fermentation process, depending on the extent of maceration the winemaker desires.[1] An efficient and modern method of maceration is the "pneumatage process" in which compressed air or gas is sequentially injected into the juice. The bubble created during the pneumatage process uses gravity and the weight of the juice to circulate the wine juice with the cap of skins and grape solids allowing for greater extraction of aroma, coloring agents and tannins to diffuse into the wine juice ("must").

 

[ruger988]

Just got this kit today (extract) and I'm planning on brewing this weekend. There's a pound of corn sugar and a pound of candi syrup but no info as to when to add durign the boil... what did everyone else do?

 

[The_Nid_Hog]

I added mine after initial fermentation. If you do that, be prepared for fermentation to kick up again.

 

[ruger988]

I added mine after initial fermentation. If you do that, be prepared for fermentation to kick up again.

Interesting, I assume you mean the corn sugar, not the candi syrup... More Beer responded to an email askign the same question and said in the boil with the extract. When you say after initial fermentation do you mean as you racked to secondary and pitched the brett, or between fermentation slowing down and your rack to secondary? Any benefit you see either way? I've never used corn sugar before apart from bottling.

 

[kcmobrewer]

I love more beer, but I loathe their kit instructions. So stupid that they aren't particular to each kit.

Anyway, the OG for that beer is only supposed to be 1.076 or so. As long as you're using a starter and you aerate the wort I would just put it all in the boil. Probably @ 1-2 mins left.

That's just my personal opinion. I know there are better/different ways to do it, but I regularly pitch into wort way higher than 1.080 and the yeast has no trouble as long as I have the appropriate count.

 

[The_Nid_Hog]

Interesting, I assume you mean the corn sugar, not the candi syrup... More Beer responded to an email askign the same question and said in the boil with the extract. When you say after initial fermentation do you mean as you racked to secondary and pitched the brett, or between fermentation slowing down and your rack to secondary? Any benefit you see either way? I've never used corn sugar before apart from bottling.

I added the candi syrup (boiled in some water then cooled to fermentation temperature) to primary after initial fermentation slowed. I had read about that as a possible way to introduce the sugar in a Belgian, but I think it would be fine to put it in at the end of the boil too.

After reading a lot of Old Sock/The Mad Fermentationist/Mike's posts about it, I didn't wait to pitch the brett and the bugs in secondary. I introduced them all in primary, right off the bat. I eventually racked it over into secondary onto the currants. The idea is that it will more closely match the sourness of Consecration, even if it doesn't follow the process exactly.

 

[ruger988]

I added the candi syrup (boiled in some water then cooled to fermentation temperature) to primary after initial fermentation slowed. I had read about that as a possible way to introduce the sugar in a Belgian, but I think it would be fine to put it in at the end of the boil too.

After reading a lot of Old Sock/The Mad Fermentationist/Mike's posts about it, I didn't wait to pitch the brett and the bugs in secondary. I introduced them all in primary, right off the bat. I eventually racked it over into secondary onto the currants. The idea is that it will more closely match the sourness of Consecration, even if it doesn't follow the process exactly.

So did you only use the Brett/Roeselare? Pitched them both at the beginning of primary?

 

[The_Nid_Hog]

So did you only use the Brett/Roeselare? Pitched them both at the beginning of primary?

No, I used separate cultures. I don't have my notebook handy but, as I recall, I used a Wyeast Abbey and Brett, and bugs from White Labs. I had a version of the Bruery's Tart of Darkness going with Roeselare so I thought I'd try something different. Pitched 'em all at the beginning.

 

[FredTheNuke]

Guys - Brewing process is discussed in the first few pages of this thread. I used 159F for 60 minutes and added the sugar in the last 10 minutes of the boil.

Yeast pitching instructions are on the MoreBeer website... I copied and pasted them below for convenience...

Vinnie recommends fermenting down to around a 1.016-1.018 with Abbey Ale yeast. He recommends the temperature to be 72°F during the first few days of fermentation, and then lets it free rise to 76°F until the target gravity of 1.016 is reached.

After hitting this target gravity, he'll transfer to barrels to start the aging and souring process (a secondary fermenter will be necessary - a barrel would be preferred!) Currants and Brettanomyces are added at this point.

After approximately 7-8 weeks, you'll want to add your Lactobacillus and Pediococcus. To kill two birds with one stone, we recommend pitching Roeselare (WY3763) which contains both bacterium.

The souring process can take anywhere from four to twelve months. Once the desired sourness level is achieved, you'll want to add the Consecration barrel oak chunk(s) until desired oak character is achieved.

Vinnie uses Belgian bottles when bottling Consecration, and bottle conditions using wine yeast. He mentions that he'll never bottle if the gravity is over 1.008.

 

[ja09]

Anyone know if there's an official recommendation for which strain of Brett? Can't seem to find the answer anywhere. Brett Lambicus?

 

[TrickyDick]

Anyone know if there's an official recommendation for which strain of Brett? Can't seem to find the answer anywhere. Brett Lambicus?

Its in this thread somewhere, and Vinnie is supposedly using a blend of three strains: Brett B, C and Lambicus I believe, and what's more is that he uses a ratio of something like 50:40:10 or something like that. This is all from the Saturday morning brain fog memory banks so I could be wrong, but pretty sure that is close. I just pitched the Roeselare Blend at the appropriate time. Months later, I added dregs from time to time as I had been able to acquire some sour beers with which to do so.

 

[FredTheNuke]

WLP650 Brett Bruxellensis for 60 days at 60 degrees. Then ramp to 68 and add Roeselare for 4-12 months. Add oak near the end to suit your taste. Now I plan on adding the oak earlier because I boiled the cubes to reduce the oak taste and soaked them in a high end Pinot Noir for the last 2 months. I'll probably add them 2 months into the 68F souring period.

 

[ruger988]

WLP650 Brett Bruxellensis for 60 days at 60 degrees. Then ramp to 68 and add Roeselare for 4-12 months. Add oak near the end to suit your taste. Now I plan on adding the oak earlier because I boiled the cubes to reduce the oak taste and soaked them in a high end Pinot Noir for the last 2 months. I'll probably add them 2 months into the 68F souring period.

Any particular reason you start the Brett out so low? White labs recommends 85*+ I was going to go for low 70s.

 

[ja09]

Thanks guys. 50/50 Brett B & C, or 50/50 B & L sounds interesting. Plus I can use the leftovers for some 1g experiments. I like it.

 

[FredTheNuke]

Any particular reason you start the Brett out so low? White labs recommends 85*+ I was going to go for low 70s.

This thread post 76 by Jipper (from MoreBeer):

Secondary temperature is an excellent question. I currently have my barrel around 72*F and that has been working well for me. B. Lambicus is good up to 75*F, and I am unfortunately not certain what temperature Vinnie has his barrel room at. I'm guessing it would be lower than 72*F, but uncertain.

And more specifically Post 92 by passedpawn:

Vinnie does an initial fermentation with WL Abbey Ale Yeast. He then removes that yeast (cold crash), pitches brett and adds the fruit, and lets it sit at 60F for 2+ months. Then, more brett and bacteria are added and left for another 3-ish months in the cab barrels. Then, bottled with the wine yeast and another 2 months of aging before sale.

 

[ja09]

This thread post 76 by Jipper (from MoreBeer):

Secondary temperature is an excellent question. I currently have my barrel around 72*F and that has been working well for me. B. Lambicus is good up to 75*F, and I am unfortunately not certain what temperature Vinnie has his barrel room at. I'm guessing it would be lower than 72*F, but uncertain.

Awesome, this is what I needed to know too. Sounds like the Jipper is using Lambicus. I just picked some up along with Brux, thinking of doing 50/50 and save the half vials for some smaller batches and bottles.

Are you guys making starters for the Abbey Ale, or going for a fruitier, slightly underpitched profile?

 

[Hawkfish]

Brewed Consecration kit 6 months ago. When to add currants? Wood? Opinions?

Fermented with ECY 20 from the start. Still sitting in primary, better bottle.

 

[ruger988]

Brewed Consecration kit 6 months ago. When to add currants? Wood? Opinions?

Fermented with ECY 20 from the start. Still sitting in primary, better bottle.

My understanding was to rack to secondary (onto currants) after it reaces 1.016 and pitch Brett somewhere around two weeks after brewing....

Then about two months later pitch your bugs, let sour to taste, add oak, oak to taste, then bottle.

Little behind the curve on the currants for sure @ 6 months.