confused over german HB advice vs american HB techniques

[Gavin C]

Is that the 7.1 cu ft Haier or a bigger one?
Looked at the 7.1 today, seems small but seems like I can easily lift something over the edges.

Yes 7.1

 

[kh54s10]

If you don't want to go with glass carboys, and would prefer a spigot, then look no further than the very German Speidel
fermenter!

If you go with any fermenter with a spigot be prepared for an infection. There is no way to keep them totally clean during the fermentation period.

 

[rawlus]

There is no replacement for experience... No amount of reading or research can replace the experience of doing something, failing and learning from it.

Lagers are not only more advanced a beer to brew, they can require a bit more equipment to do exceptionally well. Only you can decide the amount of investment you wish to make up front before brewing a single beer... Most beginners start with a modest investment and try to learn good techniques before making large equipment investments. Ales are more forgiving, extract is more forgiving. When you get into all grain lagers and replicating a commercial style you enjoy the number of variables you must master is pretty much out of reach to the novice Brewer.

The stubbornness or diligence in study is largely irrelevant here. You need practical experience.

It is also true that there can be many ways to get to the same destination and it is through experience that a Brewer learns which techniques do and don't work for their system, their style, the ingredients available and so forth....

I would suggest focusing less on the end product you're aiming for and more on mastery of the techniques and your equipment. Brewing a variety of styles is part of the learning process and allows you to both make mistakes and achieve success.

It will take quite some experience and time to master the variables necessary to reproduce an augusteiner helles- grain bill, grain source, grain grind, water chemistry, mash temperature and duration, fermentation schedule, yeast profile, hop additions, IBUs, original gravity, attenuation, lagering process, CO2 volumes, equipment efficiency, temperature control and about 100 or more other variables... Not the least of which is that the beer you are trying to replicate is made commercially and you are using a Homebrew system to try and make a version at the 5 or 10gallon level. It's not like baking a cake where all you need to do is scale the ingredients to the right batch size.

Brewing is part art, part science and part luck. You dont make beer, yeast make beer, you make wort. And right now you've never made wort, and yout have no experience or idea how augusteiner makes their wort.

The recipe you use with your ingredients and your equipment could be different than what augusteiner uses to make a beer that tastes and looks and smells just like theirs. That is the magic experiment of brewing. It is not just a destination, it is the journey you take and the many decisions you make getting there.

So I strongly suggest finding a brewing club in PA or buying a kit of some sort to eliminate some variables from your first brewing session and start brewing and you will soon then realize what many of us already know... Wanting to do it and doing it are two different things. And you may also find that you can create a recipe and brew all your own that in time and with experience surpasses what can be reasonably produced on a commercial scale.

 

[wobdee]

Speidel has some great brewing equipment you should check out. I use two of their fermenters and they work great. I also have a 20l Braumeister on the way shortly.

 

[slym2none]

If you go with any fermenter with a spigot be prepared for an infection. There is no way to keep them totally clean during the fermentation period.

Really? I'm on batch 8 of beer in a fermenter with a spigot. No infections.

How long do I have to wait for my first one?

 

[kh54s10]

Really? I'm on batch 8 of beer in a fermenter with a spigot. No infections.

How long do I have to wait for my first one?

Who knows? It is just that the spigot has plenty of area for bacteria to get going while the fermentation goes on.

Some make a vessel to wrap around the spigot containing a sanitizing solution with success.

It just seems a problem that is easily avoidable by having fermentation vessels without spigots.

 

[slym2none]

I just don't open my spigot until it's all done. There's no way for it to get dirty if you never use it. It really is that easy, and has never been a problem. No avoidance necessary.

 

[Braumeise]

There is no replacement for experience... No amount of reading or research can replace the experience of doing something, failing and learning from it.

agreed!

Lagers are not only more advanced a beer to brew, they can require a bit more equipment to do exceptionally well. Only you can decide the amount of investment you wish to make up front before brewing a single beer... Most beginners start with a modest investment and try to learn good techniques before making large equipment investments. Ales are more forgiving, extract is more forgiving. When you get into all grain lagers and replicating a commercial style you enjoy the number of variables you must master is pretty much out of reach to the novice Brewer.

That is sort of self-evident. I don't go out and buy a 50k Horse and pro equipment and expect to be a equestrian.

Question for me at this point: will I stick to one thing and fail multiple times before I get it right or do I start with fairly easier stuff...

The stubbornness or diligence in study is largely irrelevant here. You need practical experience.

true but not true... I am not stubborn in terms of study (well yes, I am) but stubborn in my refusal to consider a brewing kit to start with....

but, I am not hopeless... I am considering this route.

It is also true that there can be many ways to get to the same destination and it is through experience that a Brewer learns which techniques do and don't work for their system, their style, the ingredients available and so forth....

true.

I would suggest focusing less on the end product you're aiming for and more on mastery of the techniques and your equipment. Brewing a variety of styles is part of the learning process and allows you to both make mistakes and achieve success.


It will take quite some experience and time to master the variables necessary to reproduce an augusteiner helles- grain bill, grain source, grain grind, water chemistry, mash temperature and duration, fermentation schedule, yeast profile, hop additions, IBUs, original gravity, attenuation, lagering process, CO2 volumes, equipment efficiency, temperature control and about 100 or more other variables... Not the least of which is that the beer you are trying to replicate is made commercially and you are using a Homebrew system to try and make a version at the 5 or 10gallon level. It's not like baking a cake where all you need to do is scale the ingredients to the right batch size.

do not underestimate baking, please. Depending on what you bake, there is so much more to it than measuring the right amount of ingredients and mix them together...

anything that requires yeast is a perfect example of how you can badly fail baking something that is supposed to come out "fluffy/airy" even if you think you have done everything right.

I am the kind of person who drives 20 miles to buy fresh yeast if my recipe requires that instead of substituting it with dried yeast because I know from experience the differences: and I don't care if 100 people tell me, there is no difference. There is one, I know it.

I hope to archive that level of practical knowledge at one point in brewing and of course I need practice. Question is: do I want to practice with one style only or do I try different things from the start. Not sure yet what route is best suitable for my learning curve.

Brewing is part art, part science and part luck. You dont make beer, yeast make beer, you make wort. And right now you've never made wort, and yout have no experience or idea how augusteiner makes their wort.

True.

The recipe you use with your ingredients and your equipment could be different than what augusteiner uses to make a beer that tastes and looks and smells just like theirs. That is the magic experiment of brewing. It is not just a destination, it is the journey you take and the many decisions you make getting there.

Since I am lacking the water from Munich, it will be very different.

So I strongly suggest finding a brewing club in PA or buying a kit of some sort to eliminate some variables from your first brewing session and start brewing and you will soon then realize what many of us already know... Wanting to do it and doing it are two different things. And you may also find that you can create a recipe and brew all your own that in time and with experience surpasses what can be reasonably produced on a commercial scale.

Thank you!
I am taking all that I have been told here into consideration before I start anything.

 

[Braumeise]

Speidel has some great brewing equipment you should check out. I use two of their fermenters and they work great. I also have a 20l Braumeister on the way shortly.

I should buy all that stuff on my next trip visiting my family...
Did check it and also checked reviews both from Germany and from the US.
Seems very reliable, durable, well made, non-leaking, food-safe (and I know Germany has different -> stricter regulations concerning Food-grade Plastic)
So that takes away from my Plastic vs. Glass Con List.

 

[Braumeise]

If you go with any fermenter with a spigot be prepared for an infection. There is no way to keep them totally clean during the fermentation period.

Checked plenty of reviews both US and German and did not find any complaints concerning infection of a "Speidel" Spigot.

I thought of sanitizing and covering it even before you guys talked about it here.


But I although thought of sanitizing my freezer each time I put a new batch in.

 

[unionrdr]

I have the red & white Italian spigots on my fermenters & bottling bucket. Save for the old Cooper's Micro Brew FV, it uses the Cooper's style screw in one. I take'em apart every time & soak in PBW, scrubbing them inside with a set of three aquarium filter lift-tube brushes. Then rinse well, sanitize with Starsan, & re-assemble wet to the bucket.
They don't cause infections if you keep them clean & sanitary. When I brew my dampfbier & kottbusser, I use as many German grains, extracts & yeast as I can get over here to keep them more authentic flavor & aroma-wise. But I use the processes that've worked for me. So I think that is what you need to figure out. What particular processes that'll work in your situation.

 

[tektonjp]

Wow, I love your drive to get an understanding of the brew process. I got into homebrewing as a chance to replicate the great wiezen beers I had enjoyed in Bavaria years ago. And your mention of Augustiner brought back memories of drinking the Weihnachtsbock at the brewery. Good luck on your brewing.

One thing I found when I started, which you are experiencing now, is information overload. Many of the pieces didn't seem to fit together. What helped me was to start brewing simply, then I kept going back to Palmer's book after brewing a batch or two and re-reading sections of it. "Ah, that what is means to mash at a lower temperature.!" "That's why pH makes a difference."

Getting started and then revisiting the literature made things come together. Study is great. But if you can match it with experience, it will become knowledge and wisdom. Have a good brew career!

 

[SFOtoMUC]

Best advice ever is to start out doing a couple extract kits. Easy, fun and helps with understanding the whole process.

Once you get comfortable with that, then you might consider doing a batch when you go back to Bavaria. I did this myself after discovering Augustiner, but keep in mind they have thier own well and are not using "Munich" city water so even then we can never produce an Augustiner vollbier helles "exactly" they way that the KG does and that is part of what makes them the Champagne of Bavaria.

By contrast, the Paulaner brewery on the Isar river has a channel diverted into the brewery itself so again just what you consider "Munich water" can really vary.


When next you visit München, please visit the Forschungsbräuerei across the river in Neuperlach.

http://forschungsbrauerei.de


They are the only 'micro-brewery' in MUC and the family that owns, runs and brews is very happy to talk about the biers they make and helpful explaining the process they undertake which is way more than you will ever get from the Augustiner boffins. They are also very knowledgeable about thier water so could help ya gleen some insight with what you have you work with in PA when ya cross that bridge......not to mention they are second only to Augustiner Landesbergerstrasse in every measurable way which i'd call excellant company indeed.

 

[Braumeise]

I have the red & white Italian spigots on my fermenters & bottling bucket. Save for the old Cooper's Micro Brew FV, it uses the Cooper's style screw in one. I take'em apart every time & soak in PBW, scrubbing them inside with a set of three aquarium filter lift-tube brushes. Then rinse well, sanitize with Starsan, & re-assemble wet to the bucket.
They don't cause infections if you keep them clean & sanitary. When I brew my dampfbier & kottbusser, I use as many German grains, extracts & yeast as I can get over here to keep them more authentic flavor & aroma-wise. But I use the processes that've worked for me. So I think that is what you need to figure out. What particular processes that'll work in your situation.

as of now I have a ball valve (drilled the hole into the kettle myself! no leaks!) and a spigot on my lautering tun.

Guys in my HB-Store convinced me to siphon out of a fermenting bucket. I will upgrade to spiedel fermenters at one point though.

 

[Braumeise]

Wow, I love your drive to get an understanding of the brew process. I got into homebrewing as a chance to replicate the great wiezen beers I had enjoyed in Bavaria years ago. And your mention of Augustiner brought back memories of drinking the Weihnachtsbock at the brewery. Good luck on your brewing.

One thing I found when I started, which you are experiencing now, is information overload. Many of the pieces didn't seem to fit together. What helped me was to start brewing simply, then I kept going back to Palmer's book after brewing a batch or two and re-reading sections of it. "Ah, that what is means to mash at a lower temperature.!" "That's why pH makes a difference."

Getting started and then revisiting the literature made things come together. Study is great. But if you can match it with experience, it will become knowledge and wisdom. Have a good brew career!

Thank you

i would probably never have started this endeavor had I just stayed in Munich (living next to Paulaner, able to walk to Augustiner and having Alt Ötting and tegernsee in my "back yard".)

Happy that I did though because as of now I am having a lot of fun and after brewing twice I can definitely say, that brewing beats "stress-baking" by far.

I found cooking and baking very relaxing, something to shut my mind down and just focus on one single thing.... maybe it is because I am outside on the Patio and it is so nice and quiet - with occasional squirrels stopping by... love my experience so far.

And I learned, that all the best theory makes nothing for practice

presumably screwed up my first two brews but hey, I will be the worst night mare for the guys in my brew store...

yo, I need exactly what I have bought the last 10 times I was in here... ... again...

Thanks for the well wishing... looks like I will need it!

 

[Braumeise]

Best advice ever is to start out doing a couple extract kits. Easy, fun and helps with understanding the whole process.

German house wife (well, sort of... not really, but some stuff that contradict German pride like processed and pre packaged...) here. So, too late... i already started and all grain, no bags, no kits, no extracts...

and presumably screwed up badly...
but I calculated that.
I guess I will brew the same wit beer at least ten times and then start to alter the recipe until I get one that I find worthy of being called beer!
Might take years

Once you get comfortable with that, then you might consider doing a batch when you go back to Bavaria. I did this myself after discovering Augustiner, but keep in mind they have thier own well and are not using "Munich" city water so even then we can never produce an Augustiner vollbier helles "exactly" they way that the KG does and that is part of what makes them the Champagne of Bavaria.

I know! yet, I can try to get as close as I can...
And if I ever win the lottery, I will build my own filtering system that reproduces the best tasting water on earth...

By contrast, the Paulaner brewery on the Isar river has a channel diverted into the brewery itself so again just what you consider "Munich water" can really vary.

Thats interessting, did not know that, even I lived next to Paulaner!

When next you visit München, please visit the Forschungsbräuerei across the river in Neuperlach.

http://forschungsbrauerei.de


They are the only 'micro-brewery' in MUC and the family that owns, runs and brews is very happy to talk about the biers they make and helpful explaining the process they undertake which is way more than you will ever get from the Augustiner boffins. They are also very knowledgeable about thier water so could help ya gleen some insight with what you have you work with in PA when ya cross that bridge......not to mention they are second only to Augustiner Landesbergerstrasse in every measurable way which i'd call excellant company indeed.

Wow! Did not know that either! Thanks for info

will let you guys know if I dump my beer after fermenting and how many batches it took for me to get something drinkable