Confused about specialty grains...

[PistolaPete]

Is there any point to worry about putting specialty grains through a mashing process when using extracts as the main base? I usually just steep most grains for 20 min @ 165F becuase I was under the impression they are already converted. I'm going to guess it depands on which type of grains being used. For example: I just bought some ingredients for a wheat ale that called for:

6.6 lbs. Wheat Malt Extract
1 lb. Wheat Grain (cracked)
1 lb. Vienna Grain (cracked)
1 lb. Honey
2 oz. Mount Hood Hops (boil)
1 oz. Mount Hood Hops (finish)
1 pkg. White Labs WLP300 Hefeweizen Ale Yeast ( I switched this to Wyeast Bavarian Blend recommended by my LHBS)

I know it depends on whether the grain contain enzymes or not, but I'm not sure if that matters in extract brewing...

 

[TyTanium]

You're right - depends on the grain.
Wheat & Vienna both need to be mashed...their starches have not been converted to sugars.
Crystal/Caramal malts have already been converted which is why you can steep those.

If you steep them at 150ish for 20-30 mins you'll still get a bunch of goodness from them though - this is essentially a short, mini-mash.

 

[PistolaPete]

Thanks Ty for the quick response. So both those grains mentioned above have enzymes?

 

[BigRob]

Yes both wheat and vienna need to be mashed.

 

[bobbrews]

I brew via partial mash too. What you want to do here is mash your 2 lbs. grain with 2.5 liters water for 45-60 minutes. I follow the 1 lb. grain to 1.25 liters water rule. I find that mashing takes a bit longer for successful conversion as opposed to a shorter steep. You'll always want to dip the grain back in your strike water and/or sparge/rinse the grains with 170-175 F-ish water after mashing.

If you had 1 lb. of crystal in here as well, I would add it to the mashing grains and bump the mash water volume up another 1.25 liters. So 3 lbs. grain with 3.75 liters water. I prefer low mash temps (148-151 F) for pale beers and slightly higher mash temps (155-159 F) for dark beers. With partial mash brewing, you're using approx. 50% extract give or take, so mash temps. don't matter as much as if you were brewing all grain.

Steeping is essentially mashing with lax restrictions on time, temperature, and overall care/concern. You'll be fine if you techinically "mash" a steeping grain with other mashing grains.

 

[BigRob]

You want to stay below 170F if you're going to rinse the partial mash or dunk sparge it.

 

[JonK331]

If you don't mash those grains you will end up with a very starchy beer. Steeping is not the same as mashing. In steeping, water temp and water to grain ratio don't matter as much. Follow what others said about the ratio of 1lb grain to 1.25 qts water if you mash. You also need a way to keep it at ~150F for an hour, you can do this in the oven if it goes that low.

 

[PistolaPete]

Thanks for all the help guys! After re-reading the instructions with this recipe, I noticed it does say to steep the grains @ 150F for 1 hour and sparge w/ 170F, so I guess this would be a partial mash.

For future reference, is there a link anyone knows of to easily see which grains need mashing vs steeping only? For now I want to stick w/ extracts, but I really noticed a better outcome from adding different grains.

 

[PistolaPete]

I noticed you guys saying to follow the 1 lb. grain to 1.25 liters water rule. I posted the instruction for this recipe below because they are saying to steep(mash) in 1.5 GALLONS of water...that equals roughly 3 liters to 1 lb of grain VS 1.25 to 1 lb of grain. That's about double. Now I'm confused again.

Place grains into 1½ gal. cold water & heat to 150°F. Remove from heat cover & allow to steep for 1 hour. Sparge with 1 gal. 170°F water & return liquid to brewpot. Add liquid malt & honey. Stir until dissolved. Return to heat & bring to low boil. Add 2 oz. hops to brewpot & keep at low boil for 55 min. Add final 1 oz. hops. Remove from heat & steep for 5 min. Strain into 3 gal. cold water & pitch yeast when cooled to 80°F or below. Yields 5 gal.

 

[inverted]

Your doing it right that is for all grain mash. Your doing steeping different deal

 

[Yooper]

I noticed you guys saying to follow the 1 lb. grain to 1.25 liters water rule. I posted the instruction for this recipe below because they are saying to steep(mash) in 1.5 GALLONS of water...that equals roughly 3 liters to 1 lb of grain VS 1.25 to 1 lb of grain. That's about double. Now I'm confused again.

Place grains into 1½ gal. cold water & heat to 150°F. Remove from heat cover & allow to steep for 1 hour. Sparge with 1 gal. 170°F water & return liquid to brewpot. Add liquid malt & honey. Stir until dissolved. Return to heat & bring to low boil. Add 2 oz. hops to brewpot & keep at low boil for 55 min. Add final 1 oz. hops. Remove from heat & steep for 5 min. Strain into 3 gal. cold water & pitch yeast when cooled to 80°F or below. Yields 5 gal.

1 pound grain to 1.25-2 quarts of water is a good ratio. I hate to say to follow our directions, and not theirs, but ours are right!

You can go up to 2 quarts of water per pound of grain without any issue, but I wouldn't go any higher. I'd start with 1.5 quarts/pound, just in case I was way too hot and needed to add a bit of cool water to get the temp right. I'd shoot for 153-155 for 45 minutes to an hour. Then you can pour the 170 degree water over the grains and continue.

Also, I wouldn't do a "low boil", whatever that is. You want a nice rolling boil for hops utilization. And don't pitch yeast when the wort is 80 or below- make sure it's 70 degrees or below.

 

[PistolaPete]

Thanks Yooper! I will follow your advice! I think I'm getting it now. Any malted grain that still has startches needs to be mashed and if the grain wasn't malted to begin with (oats, corn, etc) it has to be mashed with twice the amount of grains that do have enzymes. I found a good link on another thread that helped to clarify all of this:

http://www.bodensatz.com/staticpages/index.php?page=Grains