Confessions...My beer doesnt taste good

[mboardman]

I have to confess....my beer doesnt taste good.

Doesnt anyone else feel like their homebrew is very subpar to commercially produced beer? I mean, I hear guys on here say a lot, that their homebrew is great tasting. I know taste is subjective, but its hard for me to believe, knowing how my beer tastes and that the brewing process is simple and kind of hard to screw up. I guess I need to get involved in the KC homebrew scene and actually taste other dudes homebrews....compare tastes and methods.

I always prefer a commercial craft beer to one of mine. Never had a homebrew that tasted so good I drank it all up. And sometimes I get tired of the rising cost of kits and the never ending stream of new equipment. It aint a cheap hobby anymore.

I learned to brew from my Dad. He began with extract-only kits about 30 years ago and still does those. He likes his beers, but privately I rarely agree with him. His beers taste like mine; subpar to commercial. I dont think he makes bad beers either, maybe its just a defect/truth of extract kits?

I have done the BIAB thing for a bout two years now, with same results - I dont like my beers. Maybe I need to take a class or 'beerfriend' a guy who does things differently and learn from him. I just feel like Im in a rut and I dont look forward to brewing anymore. In fact, it makes me nervous to order a kit and once it arrives, I put off brewing it. Just feels like a waste of money.

I guess if I could single out one factor in my methods that might be suspect, its gotta be sanitation...although I have to admit, Im not sure my beers have suffered a sanitation issue. Ive had slow fermentors, fast fermentors, and beers taste different than I predicted, based on kit names and the taste profile I was going after.

I do sanitize with bleach and "the foam" but am never sure. Seems like there's always a sudden need for a tool I didnt sanitize, or I realize too late that I grabbed something with my hands, and Im not sure if my hands are sanitary. Its frustrating. I want to enjoy the process....but it does NOT relax me. Anyone else feel the same? Anyone in the KC area want to buy all my equipment and bottles? Ha!

Just looking for other sympathetic souls out there who might feel their beers dont taste as good as beer from the store.

I suppose this is like asking priests, in a room full of priests..."Anyone else feel like God doesnt exist?"...but fess up here. Id be especially interested in someone's story of how they changed their methods and their beers taste changed for the better.

 

[eric19312]

I like your idea about checking out a club. Find someone who brews beer that you like and join him or her for a brew day.

Sanitization is very important but given you are doing at least something and all your beers are not that good I am not sure it is your issue. If it were it would be more likely some of your beers would be pretty good and some would be garbage.

What are you doing for fermentation temperature control? I think fermentation temp control is pretty much number one thing new brewers eventually do that makes a dramatic improvement in their brew. And its not hard or expensive...start out with a swamp chiller system...

Next thought is what kind of kits/recipes are you trying? Work with easy stuff until you have fermentation and sanitation under control. Keep it around 5% ABV using either american or british ale yeast based recipes. For now avoid belgians and lagers. Belgians because it is hard to tell if you are controlling fermentation with yeast that is supposed to be a little funky and lagers because these push need for temperature control even further than ales.

 

[Br3w4u]

I feel that way sometimes. Most of my beers are just OK. I made an NEIPA that was better than any beer I could get in Oklahoma. Yeah that isn't saying much lol but it really was a great beer and I really don't know what I did right so yes it's frustrating. I still do it though.

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

Commercial beers are brewed to some mighty high standards. Be they from micro or macro brewers.

 

[QuadConPana]

I guess it's time for track one of the HBT broken record.

Fermentation temperature control...
Fermentation temperature control...
Fermentation temperature control...

A used chest freezer and $40 temperature controller will be the best brewing money you've ever spent. The transformation in your beer will feel like a caterpillar turning into a butterfly.

I'm not going to go into the reasons, since this forum has already devoted a few Terabytes to the subject.

 

[andrhamm]

I wouldn’t call homebrewing simple or hard to screw up. I’ve been brewing for 6 years and spent probably $10k on the hobby and I still dont think I’m very good at it. My main focus now is to simplify simplify simplify. I sold my big custom electric system and bought a grainfather so I can focus more on the details (as opposed to all the labor of configuring and cleaning all that hardware). I am confident in my sanitization practices, that piece I actually think is really easy. I think the problem most people experience is related to oxidation... when I moved to oxygen-free transfers my beer got way better. I fill a keg with starsan and push it all out with co2 then push the beer from the fermentor into the keg via a pressure transfer kit and co2. Next big area of improvement for me will be temp control during fermentation, which I will achieve with grainfather conicals.

 

[flars]

i would also say that sanitation is not the issue or you would have exploding or gushing bottles. Leaving bleach on some of the equipment could be part of the issue. That would be part of cleaning.

Water is the next big one along with sanitation. What is your brewing water source?

 

[TheMadKing]

I didn't like my beer until I started using fermentation temperature control and brewing recipes that I know are good (or clones of commercial brews). I also 100% agree that you need to go watch someone else brew. If you're stressed and your brew day isn't a relaxing routine, then you aren't doing it right.

My biggest problem was that my recipes just sucked. Overall though, I'd say 75% of my beers are as-good or better than most commercial craft beer to my pallet and my wife's.

Start by brewing something basic and simple like an APA, perfect your technique, and then move on to more complex beers.

 

[juggabrew]

I suggest stop using bleach and replace with starsan. Temp control is biggest leap forward as Eric said, as long as the fermenter is clean and sanitized. Everything post boil/chill needs to be sanitized. I used medical gloves when I’m sanitizing and transferring wort.

When the above process is down. Look at your water source. Your tap could have chlorine/chloramine in it which can make your beer dull.

We would need more info on your whole process to make further suggestions. Good luck and happy brewing.

 

[mboardman]

What are you doing for fermentation temperature control? I think fermentation temp control is pretty much number one thing new brewers eventually do that makes a dramatic improvement in their brew. And its not hard or expensive...start out with a swamp chiller system...

Well, Ive had to do almost nothing about this, because my basement is pretty consistent in temp, always about 69-70 in warmer months and 60-62 in colder months. Humidity sticks around 50-60%, if the barometer is accurate. To boot, I have an old shower I converted into a fermentor chamber. Used 1/2 inch hard foam insulation to line the sides and built a simple door. If I have to, I use a small portable ceramic heater on a thermostat. But KC simply doesnt get that cold for long and the basement is slow to acclimatize.

To be honest, I have been trying to brew belgian styles for the last couple of years, because Im drawn to those styles, and its been frustrating. The few beers I did have turn out alright were actually not belgian at all -
a light golden ale and a pale ale clone. So youre advice might be right here.

My saison tasted too bitter, but since then have tasted other saisons that were just as bad so not sure there...maybe saisons are so widely ranged in taste that there needs to be a classification for each taste variance. My Moinette and La Fin Du Monde clones turned out terrible. I dumped them out after shelving them for 4 years in hopes of maturation/conditioning.

 

[McKnuckle]

Can't quite tell if you're an AG brewer or not (you mention both BIAB and kits; yes I know kits can be AG). If you are, then you have to pay attention to sanitation, fermentation temp, and water quality above all else. Next comes yeast health and oxidation avoidance. It's actually pretty easy to brew crappy beer by cutting corners, especially if you're not even aware that the corners exist.

I've been brewing for about five years and only within the past, say, 18 months have I graduated to the point where I pretty much always brew something good. It may miss the mark of what I envisioned stylistically, but there are rarely any glaring technical flaws. That took a good amount of time, and learning/revising something just about every time I brewed.

I would never use bleach in my brewing equipment. PBW to clean, hot tap water to rinse, and Starsan to sanitize. I build water from distilled with salts since my well water is horrible (gave that a try in pure ignorance for the first 10 batches). Careful control of oxygen once the yeast is pitched. And use a small fridge with an Inkbird temp controller. Kegging made the packaging/serving part just leaps and bounds more enjoyable, and far more consistent, than bottles.

My point is that it's a bit of a journey to reach the point where you are brewing good beer. If you haven't yet explored some of the avenues I mentioned, your best beer may be just down the road. Hopefully you'll keep travelling.

 

[Cavpilot2000]

Yeah, I don't think sanitation is the issue either - but don't use bleach - at least not on plastic parts. Using it on glass is okay if you rinse the hell out of it, but just use Star San.

I'll echo the rest that if you don't control the temp, that's probably issue #1.
If you have relatively controlled temp, say a basement that is fairly consistently at or below 70F, then the next thing you should be looking at is freshness and quality of ingredients, then equipment (throw away those five year old fermentation buckets and racking tubing - all plastic brewing gear should be replaced periodically), then process (what kind of mash profiles are you using, are you milling your grains just before use or weeks in advance?).

Oh, and maybe your water chemistry. It's not a factor for everyone - I successfully used tap water for years, but your water may not be good for brewing without adjustment.

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

I would have to guess that at the peak of fermentation the interior of a fermenter can reach 5 to 10 degrees F. above ambient air temperature. Particularly with some of the aggressive ale yeasts.

Water chemistry and mash pH could also be contributing to your dissatisfaction. Are you perhaps using chlorinated city water?

 

[BudBernerBrewer]

Before I read any responses my thought was fermentation temperature control and water source.. my beers as good if not better than store bought. Not just my opinion. Temp of fermentation is not the room temp. You have to monitor it or else it's a guess. I buy ro water then add 1 tea spoon each for 5 gallons ....calcium and gypsum. One less thing to rule out. If you have "bad" water...no chance. My first beer, I drank all 10 gallons without sharing, it was that good. But ferm temp control to the max. Good luck to you. If I was closer I would think of buying your gear and turning my son on to it lol

 

[MHBT]

I have had batches that did not turn out as i hoped they would but i also have brewed batches that were so good the glass had a halo over it

 

[mboardman]

i would also say that sanitation is not the issue or you would have exploding or gushing bottles. Leaving bleach on some of the equipment could be part of the issue. That would be part of cleaning.

Water is the next big one along with sanitation. What is your brewing water source?

Here is my local water quality report for kansas city, kansas.

https://www.bpu.com/portals/0/bpu_reports/2106waterqualityreport.pdf

Ive bought a cheap hardness sensor and results werent too bad - 424 which is "marginally acceptable". I do have a fair amount of spots on dishes and the glass shower wall. Ph test strips read at about 7-8, which is neutral I guess.

Im not sure I understand why a sanitation problem would result in bottles exploding? Id think it would be the opposite - non fermentation or a reduced carbonation because of infection. No?

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

I have a rather hard time telling if my beer is as good as a quality micro-brew, since whether or not I personally show any dissatisfaction toward it (which is admittedly sometimes the case) my children (all grown adults above the age of 30), friends, and relatives all swear it is the best beer they ever tasted. I try to encourage them to be honest, but it seems that this is to no avail.

 

[mboardman]

I guess it's time for track one of the HBT broken record.

Fermentation temperature control...
Fermentation temperature control...
Fermentation temperature control...

A used chest freezer and $40 temperature controller will be the best brewing money you've ever spent. The transformation in your beer will feel like a caterpillar turning into a butterfly.

I responded after your post, but I think Ive got that part under control, with my shower stall setup. Although I do have a chest freezer and a temp control unit...but plans were to convert that to a kegerator.

 

[mirthfuldragon]

Here is my local water quality report for kansas city, kansas.
https://www.bpu.com/portals/0/bpu_reports/2106waterqualityreport.pdf

Your water treatment uses chloramines. Are you using campden tablets to pull it out before you brew?

 

[ericbw]

A lot of people say temperature control, but they have it backwards. If you're fermenting Belgian yeast at 60-62, you're not getting as much Belgian flavor and aroma as you could. I would aim for 68 as the low end, if you're going for an abbey style Belgian. If you're going for saison/farmhouse, then really try to get the heat up in the 70s, especially at the beginning of fermentation.

People try to cool their fermenters to prevent "off flavors," but when you're making Belgians, those aren't "off," they are the correct flavors.

When you made a good golden ale and pale ale, what yeast and what temperature? I think you have a good temperature range for using certain yeasts, like US-05/WLP001 - basic American ale yeast. But for Belgian, I think it needs to be hotter.

I think much is made of sanitation,and it's important, but if you get an infected batch, you will know it. It won't be subpar, it will be bad. Use Starsan because it's easier.

I also think that extract in particular, but homebrew in general tends to be under-attenuated. Meaning there is a lot of residual sweetness and malty character. That's also yeast-related, so if you can get the yeast to work harder, you end up with better beer. If you're finishing higher than 1.012, then you need to have something to balance it out (hops, yeast, higher alcohol). Warmer temperature might also help this.

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

Your water has both chlorine and chloramines added as anti-microbials. These need to be removed with Campden tablet treatment, or they will taint the flavor.

Your water is also very high in alkalinity, and will need strike water acidification to address this and bring your mash pH to a nominal 5.4. Sparge water acidification will also be required, though it is handled quite differently. Water pH and alkalinity are two separate things.

Magnesium and sodium are also a bit on the high side of ideal, but I speculate your problems are more in line with with chlorine/chloramine, and high alkalinity.

Address this and fermentation temperature issue and your problems should be greatly diminished.

 

[MHBT]

Here is my local water quality report for kansas city, kansas.

https://www.bpu.com/portals/0/bpu_reports/2106waterqualityreport.pdf

Ive bought a cheap hardness sensor and results werent too bad - 424 which is "marginally acceptable". I do have a fair amount of spots on dishes and the glass shower wall. Ph test strips read at about 7-8, which is neutral I guess.

Im not sure I understand why a sanitation problem would result in bottles exploding? Id think it would be the opposite - non fermentation or a reduced carbonation because of infection. No?

In the case of a bottles exploding could be either you bottle too soon or you have a contamination of wild yeast/bacteria etc that will continue to chow down on dextrines and other things in the beer that our brewers yeast would not and you will get over carbonation/bombs.

 

[ericbw]

Here is my local water quality report for kansas city, kansas.

https://www.bpu.com/portals/0/bpu_reports/2106waterqualityreport.pdf

Ive bought a cheap hardness sensor and results werent too bad - 424 which is "marginally acceptable". I do have a fair amount of spots on dishes and the glass shower wall. Ph test strips read at about 7-8, which is neutral I guess.

Im not sure I understand why a sanitation problem would result in bottles exploding? Id think it would be the opposite - non fermentation or a reduced carbonation because of infection. No?

Infection means that bacteria has gotten in. The bacteria we worry about eats all the sugar (even the more complex sugar that beer yeast leaves behind). So if it happens in the fermenter, your beer will be sour because there is no leftover sugar (it will finish closer to 1.000 instead of 1.008-1.012 like most beers).

If it happens in the bottle, then as it eats the sugar, it makes even more C02 than you expected, and either explodes the bottle or (more often) gushes out when you open. Like, the WHOLE bottle will eventually foam out and you'll have about an ounce or two of sour, yeasty, nasty beer.

Sanitize everything, including bottles and caps.

But I don't think that's your problem.

 

[mboardman]

I would have to guess that at the peak of fermentation the interior of a fermenter can reach 5 to 10 degrees F. above ambient air temperature. Particularly with some of the aggressive ale yeasts.

Water chemistry and mash pH could also be contributing to your dissatisfaction. Are you perhaps using chlorinated city water?

Yeah, my city water is kind of hard....reads at 7-8 with ph strips and 424 on the meter.

I did try using distilled water. A hassle for every brew day to buy 10 gals for each kit, just to be sure Id have enough. One gallon jugs, lugging it around...no delivery of 5 gal jugs from culligan in my area.

Plus, Id read that with distilled water you have to add back in something?

And I just looked up RO water, but again, you have to add back in stuff?

I have no idea what level of chlorines and chloramines is good for brewing, but yeah my city water has it, looks to be low at 110ppb with a ceiling of 800ppb, and 2.3 ppm for chloramines with ceiling of 4.0. I would think every city is adding that to sanitize the tap water. What level is acceptable for brewing?

 

[mboardman]

Your water treatment uses chloramines. Are you using campden tablets to pull it out before you brew?

Nope, wasnt aware. Wouldnt every municipality use chlorine to sanitize their tap water?

 

[mboardman]

Your water has both chlorine and chloramines added as anti-microbials. These need to be removed with Campden tablet treatment, or they will taint the flavor.

Your water is also very high in alkalinity, and will need strike water acidification to address this and bring your mash pH to a nominal 5.4. Sparge water acidification will also be required, though it is handled quite differently. Water pH and alkalinity are two separate things.

Magnesium and sodium are also a bit on the high side of ideal, but I speculate your problems are more in line with with chlorine/chloramine, and high alkalinity.

Address this and fermentation temperature issue and your problems should be greatly diminished.

OK, campden tablets ordered.

I should add that Im not an AG brewer, yet. So Im not using strike water. and this brings up another issue which I'll explain here briefly, but I dont want to water down this topic.

So with biab kits, Im supposed to start with 1 gal of water and steep the grains. one gal of water wont even begin to soak a bag of grains. I need at least 2-3 gals to do that first step and so then I have very little room left for strike water. And I'll look up acidification but I dont know what you mean by that just now....hasnt been an issue as an extract brewer till now.

However, aside from that I agree my water isnt ideal. I went through this testing a year or two ago and concluded that I didnt know enough to say the water was the problem. I tried brewing several batches with distilled water and got similar results. So I backed off buying d water and went back to tap. Common sense told me EVERYONES tap water must have the chlorines in it, or it wouldnt be safe to drink. I mean, is everyone adding campden tablets? Im not arguing the point, as Ive ordered the tablets but am skeptical. I dont know....its so many variables and my head hurts.

 

[mirthfuldragon]

Nope, wasnt aware. Wouldnt every municipality use chlorine to sanitize their tap water?

It depends on the municipality - typically they will use either Chlorine or Chloramine. Chlorine will dissipate over time. My municipality uses chlorine, so I fill 5g jugs after each brew day and let them sit a week or three for the chlorine to dissipate. Everyone in my club takes some measure of effort to fix the cholrine issue - either carbon filters, buying bottled water, using campden, or letting the water sit to dissipate.

Chloramine (which your water report mentions) is a different animal and doesn't dissipate as easily. You need to use campden tablets to remove it. Check www.morebeer.com/articles/removing_chloramines_from_water. Or you can use bottled water, or look at a Reverse Osmosis system.

The off flavors from chloramine are probably why you are so unhappy with your beer; it is at least a major contributing factor.

 

[bluemoon737]

Yes, tap water usually has at least chlorine and some have chloramines (like yours). Campden tablets will take care of that and yes, pretty much everyone that brews with tap water uses them. Your report shows a much higher level of sulphate as compared to chlorides which is going to accentuate hop bitterness in your beer.

You are correct that if you use distilled or RO water you have to "build it back up" but Calcium Chloride and Gypsum are cheap and readily available at pretty much all LHBS.

I'll echo some of the other comments here...get rid of the bleach and just use Starsan. Fermentation temp control is important (very) but it looks like yours is not totally out of whack. I suspect your source water to be a primary culprit.

 

[Rob2010SS]

mboardman, yes, a lot of tap water has that in there. The saying that "if your water tastes good, it will make good beer" is not always true. Sometimes, if you want the beer to be better, you need to learn about those adjustments to make to your water in order to improve. I'm still a noob but have learned a lot from people on this forum. My first batch was NB's Grapefruit Pulpin IPA Extract kit. While it was good and was drinkable and friends liked it, I felt like you did in your original post, it was NOT what I would classify as a grapefruit IPA. Tasted more like a red ale. Thanks to the great people on this forum, I learned new things and I made changes to my process...

1. I'm using distilled water for my batches now. Yes, this requires going to the store and buying 10 gallons of distilled water. But so be it if it helps make better beer. If you don't want to do this, AT THE VERY LEAST, do as others have said and add the campden tablets to the water to remove this stuff.

2. I've started making additions to the distilled water. Right now, I'm just doing Calcium Chloride and Gypsum additions. The free calculators on BrewersFriend help you figure out how much.

3. Fermentation temp control. I have a kegerator in my kitchen and bought an inkbird temp controller and it works wonderfully.

4. Oxygen free transfer from Carboy to Keg. I honestly feel like this one is huge. I actually haven't done my first one yet but my NEIPA that's fermenting now will by my first closed transfer.

My wife hated my first one, wouldn't touch it. By adding temp control, distilled water, and water additions, she wouldn't even share the last one with friends because she loved it so much. These are all important things. Adding one may make a minor improvement, but adding multiple changes will drastically improve the beer.

Good luck to you man. I highly recommend making some changes and giving it another go. I hope you find the relaxation in the hobby again!

 

[Cavpilot2000]

A lot of people say temperature control, but they have it backwards. If you're fermenting Belgian yeast at 60-62, you're not getting as much Belgian flavor and aroma as you could. I would aim for 68 as the low end, if you're going for an abbey style Belgian.

Yes, but your "higher temps are okay" approach ONLY works for Belgians, and let's face it, who wants to drink Belgian funk ALL the time?

For everything else, about 70F ambient is about the max you'd want for ales.

 

[MrPowers]

First of all, I don't think the issue here is sanitation either. That said, the rest of this thread is a mouthful, so please bear with me.

I think the first thing to do here is to make sure you're using good water (i.e. NO Chlorine/Chloramine). Just because the water tastes good, that does not necessarily mean that it's good to brew with. Search the thread on here "A Brewing Water Chemistry Primer" by Yooper I think. Try brewing a proven recipe, once, using reverse osmosis or distilled water following the directions in that thread. It dramatically improved my beer.

The second thing is temperature control. The issue here is, fermentation produces heat (especially more aggressive yeasts). It might be 5-10 degrees warmer in the fermentor than ambient temperature in your chamber. This creates two problems. At the peak of fermentation activity, you need some way to suppress the temperature to keep it within the temperature range the Yeast prefer (i.e. A chest freezer). The second, and possibly more important issue is, you want fermentation to end AT OR ABOVE the warmest temperature the fermenter reached during fermentation, so you need some way to heat it. This can be done using your little space heater, or placing the fermenter in a warmer ambient temperature than it was held at during fermentation (moving it to a different room).

The reason this is important is because, as fermentation slows down toward the end, the Yeast are no longer as active, therefore they are not producing as much heat. At this point, the Yeast start to transition to cleaning up off flavors they left during fermentation, rather than consuming sugars. Since they are not producing as much heat, the temperature of the fermenter drops and this can cause Yeast to stall and drop out. If that happens, they won't be able to clean up those off flavors and you will notice it in your beer. It will generally just come across as a "rough" or "unrefined" character.

 

[jack13]

I have to confess....my beer doesnt taste good.

Doesnt anyone else feel like their homebrew is very subpar to commercially produced beer? I mean, I hear guys on here say a lot, that their homebrew is great tasting. I know taste is subjective, but its hard for me to believe, knowing how my beer tastes and that the brewing process is simple and kind of hard to screw up. I guess I need to get involved in the KC homebrew scene and actually taste other dudes homebrews....compare tastes and methods.

I always prefer a commercial craft beer to one of mine. Never had a homebrew that tasted so good I drank it all up. And sometimes I get tired of the rising cost of kits and the never ending stream of new equipment. It aint a cheap hobby anymore.

I learned to brew from my Dad. He began with extract-only kits about 30 years ago and still does those. He likes his beers, but privately I rarely agree with him. His beers taste like mine; subpar to commercial. I dont think he makes bad beers either, maybe its just a defect/truth of extract kits?

I have done the BIAB thing for a bout two years now, with same results - I dont like my beers. Maybe I need to take a class or 'beerfriend' a guy who does things differently and learn from him. I just feel like Im in a rut and I dont look forward to brewing anymore. In fact, it makes me nervous to order a kit and once it arrives, I put off brewing it. Just feels like a waste of money.

I guess if I could single out one factor in my methods that might be suspect, its gotta be sanitation...although I have to admit, Im not sure my beers have suffered a sanitation issue. Ive had slow fermentors, fast fermentors, and beers taste different than I predicted, based on kit names and the taste profile I was going after.

I do sanitize with bleach and "the foam" but am never sure. Seems like there's always a sudden need for a tool I didnt sanitize, or I realize too late that I grabbed something with my hands, and Im not sure if my hands are sanitary. Its frustrating. I want to enjoy the process....but it does NOT relax me. Anyone else feel the same? Anyone in the KC area want to buy all my equipment and bottles? Ha!

Just looking for other sympathetic souls out there who might feel their beers dont taste as good as beer from the store.

I suppose this is like asking priests, in a room full of priests..."Anyone else feel like God doesnt exist?"...but fess up here. Id be especially interested in someone's story of how they changed their methods and their beers taste changed for the better.

Any chance you are also being much more critical of your own brews, which ends up amplifying any flaws? I think I am in a different state of mind when I sit down and drink one of my own than when I grab a commercial beer (though the latter is becoming very very rare).

But regarding your very last point: for me, as for others here, changing my water made a big difference. Switched to RO. I have so much iron in my tap water that it was making all my brews oxidize, even when I minimized oxygen exposure post-ferm.

 

[Cavpilot2000]

How about download the free version of Bru'NWater and start adjusting your water with brewing salts and pH adjustment.
I pretty much guarantee that if you aren't using old plastic fermenters and tubing (again, they need to be replaced periodically), you tap water is the problem. Some places have tap water that is fine for brewing, or at least not detrimental. Many places have terrible water for brewing.

If you can sit a warm glass of tap water out and smell or taste ANYTHING in it (chlorine, sulfur, etc) then it's going to be bad for your beer, and a lot of stuff like chloramines will be detrimental even below your taste/smell threshold.

 

[McKnuckle]

There are lots of good points in this thread, but to keep things simple, it's your water.

It's in every beer you brew from extract to AG and in between, from pilsner to porter. Whenever someone pleads for help with a persistent "badness" in every brew it almost always ends up being their water. The rest of the ideas are just a (worthwhile) discussion of best practices.

Read the water primer sticky on the Brew Science sub-forum for some quick and dirty guidelines to prepare decent quality brewing water.

 

[bluemoon737]

You are not doing "biab" which is an all grain brewing method. You are extract brewing with kits that include "steeping grains" sometimes called a mini mash. With this method, you could easily get by with just using Campden tablets in your water to get rid of the Chlorine and Chloramines.

I would also suggest a yeast nutrient added to your boil. I use Wyeast's version and have never had an issue with healthy fermentation. I always use it, others might say it's a waste of money.

 

[ericbw]

You can also boil the water or leave it out over night so the chlorine dissipates. Lots of ways to handle it. I use spring water for AG or sometimes RO if it is just extract. Or sometimes RO for AG if I don't have spring water.

I think there is some misunderstanding about your recipes and process. Are you doing all grain BIAB, or are you steeping some grains and using extract? What size batches?

What do you mean by strike water?

 

[TheHopfather]

OK, campden tablets ordered.

I should add that Im not an AG brewer, yet. So Im not using strike water. and this brings up another issue which I'll explain here briefly, but I dont want to water down this topic.

So with biab kits, Im supposed to start with 1 gal of water and steep the grains. one gal of water wont even begin to soak a bag of grains. I need at least 2-3 gals to do that first step and so then I have very little room left for strike water. And I'll look up acidification but I dont know what you mean by that just now....hasnt been an issue as an extract brewer till now.

However, aside from that I agree my water isnt ideal. I went through this testing a year or two ago and concluded that I didnt know enough to say the water was the problem. I tried brewing several batches with distilled water and got similar results. So I backed off buying d water and went back to tap. Common sense told me EVERYONES tap water must have the chlorines in it, or it wouldnt be safe to drink. I mean, is everyone adding campden tablets? Im not arguing the point, as Ive ordered the tablets but am skeptical. I dont know....its so many variables and my head hurts.

Are you brewing all grain or extract? You say you aren't an AG brewer and then immediately say you are brewing BIAB. BIAB IS all grain brewing.

When brewing all grain you really, really need to pay attention to your water. All municipal water is treated with chlorine or chlorimine, the accept level for either of those in brewing water is ZERO. You need to remove them from your water or you will end up with chlorophenols in your beer, they don't taste good. Think plastic or band-aid flavor.

Your water is also pretty alkaline. That means that your mash pH is most likely going to be too high. You need to try to keep your mash pH in the 5.3 to 5.6 pH range if you want the best tasting beer. In order to do that you will have to use an acid to overcome the alkalinity in your water. You've also got pretty high sodium and sulfate levels in your water. Sodium that high may make your beer taste salty, think Gatorade. Sulfate will accentuate hop bitterness, which may be your problem with the saison you mentioned.

My advice would be to change up your water to RO, or learn how to adjust the water you have now. Go read the water primer - https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=198460

Good luck!

 

[Biscuits]

Truth be told, until recently my beers were hit or miss. I was making the random tasty beer-not commercial standard-but enough to keep me brewing. I also had an excuse, I was moving a lot and as the size of my digs got smaller, so did my brew gear....so I just blamed it on not being able to dial in my system. To a degree, I do believe this was part of my issue as now that I am settled, my beers have improved exponentially. However, I also changed a few things that I think might have been the smoking guns....I don't bottle anymore...everything goes into a keg and where before I was primarily just sprinkling on dry yeast...I now rehyrdrate if I use dry yeast at all and I make starters for my liquid yeast.

I will also admit that I am not a huge stickler for sanitation. I want to caveat that with the fact that I have never had an infection. I usually just rinse out my mashtun with water and make sure the ball valve gets clean water run through it for a minute or two. My kettle is basically the same...I rinse it out with the hose and run my hand along the inside to rub off any break/hop material that may be stuck to it. Granted, my kegs/kegerator get a little more attention, but the way I see it....everything on the hot side is getting boiled anyway...no reason to waste time and energy on crazy cleaning...I pay more attention to the cold side.

I do agree that getting into a club will help tremendously. I was always on either end of the spectrum about my beers. I thought they were either the best thing to be made with water or that they were unfit for consumption. When I joined a brew club I realized a few things: #1 I was not alone in these feelings....and usually I was half right. #2 I actually knew as much, if not more, than some of the members who were pros! #3 It helped me a ton to talk to other people about their process and compare/contrast it to mine....brewing with other people took me to the next level.

If you were to ask me, I'd say that it is refreshing to hear someone be honest about their homebrew. Too often I hear people ranting and raving about their beer and then I taste it and I am wondering if they truly believe it is good, if they are just new to it and excited, or if they are just putting on a face to try and alter peoples perception. At any rate, if you're not brewing to the standard you want...you've recognized there is a problem, now identify the deficiency and correct it. Half of the fun of brewing is being able to make tangible changes. This forum is filled with peoples opinions on what is the "right" way to do stuff, but truth be told...there is no "right" way....just the way that works for you. Maybe your process is in need of some revamping, but I wouldn't go changing equipment just yet. Make simple changes now and try to isolate things that make your beer better...or even what makes them worse.

Anyway, I am rambling on and on, but I think this is an opportunity for you to make some changes that could potentially reap satisfying rewards. Of course though, RDWHAHB!

 

[stpug]

Bandaid, iodine, antiseptic, medicinal are the typical off characteristics you'll get from chlorine/-amine in your brew water as it gets converted to chlorophenols. While chlorine is fairly volatile and actually could be boiled off during the wort boiling, chloramines are not volatile and do not readily boil off. Any additional water you may add to "top up" you batch afterwards needs to be treated as well - you may be better off with distilled for topping up (the benefit here is that you can refrigerate your top up water and it can actually help you get to pitching temps quicker). Metabisulfites/campden are needed anytime you use your tap water for brewing.

Your water is also very hard and not ideal for most beer brewing. Workable? Maybe, but not ideal. High magnesium, high sulfate, high sodium really dictates the range of beers that would be successful with this water. Diluted with 50-75% distilled and acidified appropriately will increase it's usefulness in brewing considerably.

 

[ericbw]

Yes, but your "higher temps are okay" approach ONLY works for Belgians, and let's face it, who wants to drink Belgian funk ALL the time?

For everything else, about 70F ambient is about the max you'd want for ales.

If you read through this thread, you'll see that the OP leans toward Belgian styles because that's what he likes. These are all subpar. These are yeasts that need higher temps to be good.

He made a good golden ale and a good pale ale. These thrive at the temps he says he has.

That's why I say he needs it warmer. I'm not suggesting that he or anyone without temp control just make Belgians. But he seems to be trying to make those.

I know what you're saying, though. Lots of threads where people can't control their temps, and someone says, "Just call it a saison!" But if you're trying to make a pale ale or an Irish Red, that would be nasty. S-04 yeast is gross to me if it is over 66 or so. I couldn't figure out why I never liked my beers I made with it. I think that's why.

And you're right - it only works with Belgian styles. Any other style with those aromas are definitely off