Concord Boil Kettle as Mash Tun?

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luckybeagle

Making sales and brewing ales.
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I've got a 15 gallon Concord Kettle that I use for my boil kettle, but currently use a 10 gallon home depot cooler as a mash tun. It holds temperature great, but I run out of capacity when I make 10 gallons of any medium to high gravity ale. I've had to double (and occasionally, triple) batch sparge. Since I primarily do 10g batches of Belgians, this is an issue almost every time.

I'd love to have 3 matching 15 gallon Concord vessels. If I mashed in a 15g Concord Boil Kettle (single wall) you think a 22+ lb grain bill would hold temperature with the lid on for 60 to 90 minutes without additional insulation when brewed outside in ~60F weather? Seems like that much grain and water (7+ gallons) would self insulating and would do well at holding temp. Or would a HERMS be the only way to really maintain temp well? I could also direct fire the kettle and stir if needed, but I'd like to be able to walk away from the system like I do when mashing in my HD cooler.

Thoughts and suggestions?

Thanks in advance,
 
Would it hold temp? I don't think so. There's some advantage in that the larger the vessel, the less the surface area to volume ratio, but if you want it holding 90 minutes, I wouldn't think so.

As far as a HERMS being the only way to hold temp well.....I'm presuming you don't have access to electricity and the heating has to be propane?

I have a RIMS that runs on 120-v power, and it holds temp in a 10-gallon batch perfectly. In fact, I can ramp it up from under my mash temp quite easily. Depending on your equipment a HERMS may be cheaper to implement, but HERMS is definitely not the way to go.

When I do a 10-gallon batch, I do single infusion (I do LODO stuff so no sparge). The last one had 30# of grain and 16.5 gallons of water. It barely fits in my 20.5 gallon mash tun.

No reason why you wouldn't be able to fit 22# in a 15-gallon mash tun with only 7# of water.

*****

Part of the reason I don't think it'll hold temp is that you won't fill the mash tun so you'll have head space warming the mash tun walls, and losing heat that way.

Any reason why you don't want to use any insulation? I put a layer of Reflectix insulation around mine, and it helps. Heck, you could do the traditional thing, wrap with a blanket, sleeping bag, whatever.
 
Thanks for the quick response!

I do have access to electricity. For heat, I brew on natural gas at home on my back deck.

RIMS seems like it might be a little too complicated for me at this stage. HERMS sounded appealing since I already have a pump and could utilize the extra volume in my BK to keep warm wort pumping through the system, or maybe use it to perform step mashes(?) but if it's not very effective with this sort of setup then maybe low tech is the right solution. In what situations/setups would you recommend a HERMS?

Maybe the sleeping bag or some kind of custom styrofoam box that I can slip over it during the mash is all I really need.
 
I brew in garage, even when -16F outside. I use 10gal Concord and BIAB. I just wrap reflectrix two wraps around, two circular layers on the lid, sitting on two folded towels on top of milk crate to get off cold concrete floor. It hold to 3-4 degrees in an hour and since I BIAB and grind to dust I'm really not concerned after about 15m.
 
Thanks for the quick response!

I do have access to electricity. For heat, I brew on natural gas at home on my back deck.

RIMS seems like it might be a little too complicated for me at this stage.

Well, it's not going to be any more complicated than a HERMS, but if you already have the BK and can use that, it'll be cheaper than getting a control panel and RIMS tube and element.

The downside to HERMS is it's not all that responsive, i.e., if you want to move up your mash temp, you have to heat the water to do that, and then there's that delay. RIMS is fast, at least in my system. The downside to RIMS is the expense if you already have some of the HERMS equipment. Some also are concerned that RIMS can scorch the wort, but if you start pumping through the RIMS tube, and have good flow, that really can't happen.

Sometimes best to work with what you've got. I went with RIMS because I wanted to play with some step mashes and wanted the ability to control my mash temps to within a degree, and it does that. But if you can insulate the mash tun well and hit your initial mash temp, then it's not all that necessary.

FWIW, I have my mash tun sitting on some foamboard insulation so the bench it sits on isn't sucking heat out of it. If I were doing insulation, I'd probably take an old sleeping bag or thick blanket and sew it up so it fits over the mash tun well, sort of like a glove. That makes putting on and taking off easy, and that was always the deal for me--wrapping with a thick blanket is not as quick.

HERMS sounded appealing since I already have a pump and could utilize the extra volume in my BK to keep warm wort pumping through the system, or maybe use it to perform step mashes(?) but if it's not very effective with this sort of setup then maybe low tech is the right solution. In what situations/setups would you recommend a HERMS?

I think part of the fun of this hobby is figuring this stuff out, and creating capabilities with which we can experiment. There's nothing wrong with HERMS--it's just a different way to heat the wort as it pumps through what is essentially a heat exchanger.

In your case, you could set the HERMS water at the mash temp you're targeting, set it to flow, and it would maintain that temp pretty well. You'd still want to insulate the mash tun with something, but once it's going, you could leave it for 90 minutes and not have to worry much about it.

If there's a downside to using your BK for this....if you're recirculating you should be able to pull very clear wort off the mash tun. In my case, I just switch the hose that runs the wort through the RIMS tube to the valve at the bottom of my BK, and fill it up. You'd have to drain the BK first, obviously. But the filtering of the grain bed should give you very clear wort and all you need do it get that pumped into the BK.

If you have the HERMS tubing, there's nothing to lose in trying this--and you should, before considering anything else. Heck, a cheap immersion chiller could be used for this. I have a stainless one, it'd be perfect for this kind of thing.

Maybe the sleeping bag or some kind of custom styrofoam box that I can slip over it during the mash is all I really need.

Sometimes we overthink this. Just get the mash tun sitting on some foam, wrap with sleeping bag or similar.

But play with the HERMS idea. Why not? :)

Pic of my mash tun. I used wire on this one to hold the reflextix on, but I've also used aluminum duct tape as well for other kettles:

reflectix.jpg
 
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