Computer controlled Vs. Component/manual Controlled?

[Brewing Clamper]

Hey all,

I've seen plenty of threads of controller builds on this site. There are lots of awesome ways to control a brewery! I'm at the beginning stages of developing my brewery and I'm trying to decided if I want my control box to be ran by a simple computer (Raspberry Pi) or go with the traditional PIDs, buttons and the such like from The Electric Brewery. My system at the moment is a RIMS tube setup with a boil keggle and a 10gl cooler as the mash tun. I'd like to keep the basic setup the same, run the keggle on 220v and use on the fly hot water from the RIMS tube for sparge. I've already had the 220v service wired to my brewery area. I've got lots of components from previous versions of my setup, but I would like to hear your opinions as to which you prefer, which you have and such. So, long story short, show me your setup!

Thanks!

-O

 

[aangel]

I think a question you may want to ponder is "how computer and electric-savvy am I?" Another one is "How involved in my brew day do I want to be?" Rather than take a look at the setups here, maybe see if you can visit someone with a kal-clone or a full automated setup to see what it's like.

 

[FuzzeWuzze]

I went the Strangebrew Elsinore(RPI) method and wouldnt think twice about doing it again. It allows me to keep my panel very simple, yet get all of the functionality of a PID box, plus a lot more as they now have support for Level sensors and inline PH sensors. Its not fully automated, it is just a Kal setup with no manual PID's. Its all software PID control through the RPI. I like being able to fit everything in a small 10x10 box, although i'd go up to 12x12 if i was to do it again. Being able to control and monitor things from across the room, or at the dinner table if i need to step away for a moment is very nice. Its all controlled via web interface, very similar to how a BrewPi functions which maybe why im partial to it

My overall cost was pretty low i'd say $300-400 for the panel, about $260 in parts and another $100 in tools i didnt have like ratcheting crimpers, step bits, etc.

You can find the entire build of my setup here
https://www.reddit.com/r/StrangeBrew/comments/3wful4/my_3_vessel_eherms_build/

 

[MrShake]

In all honesty, your not saving much if anything going with a PID only panel, and the flexibility of something microcontroller based like the BrewTroller gives you room to grow and a lot more features without spending more. I think its an easy decision, but in the end it comes down to personal preference.

I've brewed with a BrewTroller for more than 7 years, and loved every minute of it!

 

[Brewing Clamper]

Thanks guys,

Ultimately I think I would like to go with the computerized version, I'm just not that crazy about the available interfaces and although I can probably come up with my own It would probably take quite a while...

I've tested Elsinore and craftbeerpi, both of which have good features but they're both under development still and I'm wanting to run my whole setup from a single Raspberry Pi. any of you have experience with either of these packages?

 

[FuzzeWuzze]

Like i said i love my Elsinore panel, yes its under development but that's a good thing. The core features are there to make it usable and Doug is actively adding new features in all the time.

I cant say much for CraftBeerPi, its still very new to the scene and is yet to be proven. But i like the idea.

 

[JonW]

Have you checked out the BCS? It has a great web interface out of the box. You could always use the Pi as the client without having to drag your laptop out on brew day. There's also a complete API so you can make your own interface if that's where you'd like to go.

 

[MrShake]

Thanks guys,

Ultimately I think I would like to go with the computerized version, I'm just not that crazy about the available interfaces and although I can probably come up with my own It would probably take quite a while...

I've tested Elsinore and craftbeerpi, both of which have good features but they're both under development still and I'm wanting to run my whole setup from a single Raspberry Pi. any of you have experience with either of these packages?

I don't, but why a Pi vs something else? Have you looked at BrewTroller?

 

[ryanryates]

Have you checked out the BCS? It has a great web interface out of the box. You could always use the Pi as the client without having to drag your laptop out on brew day. There's also a complete API so you can make your own interface if that's where you'd like to go.

Second Jon's comment - the BCS is a great tool. I have integrated the BCS with RPi and a 10" touchscreen on my panel. In addition to pumps and elements, I have a BCS controlling my ball valves which makes my brew day a breeze. Other than filling tanks with water, dough in, and hop additions - it pretty much runs itself.

So far I have been very pleased with the way it turned out.

 

[jddevinn]

I have a BCS controlling my fermentation heating and glycol system. If I ever redo or upgrade my brewhouse equipment the expensive custom panel with PLCs and switches is getting replaced with a BCS system

 

[FuzzeWuzze]

I don't, but why a Pi vs something else? Have you looked at BrewTroller?

Well for one, even though im glad BrewTroller is coming back its still sold out on your site.

Second, cost..you could in theory put Raspbian on a 2Gb SD card(basically free at this point) in a $5 RPI Zero and have a Strangebrew controller ready to hook into your SSR's and rest of the panel in short order for less than the price of going out to lunch.

It really depends on what your end goal is. To me BCS/BrewTroller is just overkill unless you plan to automate valves and control the entire process from beginning to end with a button press, and or multiple fermentation chambers.

Granted this thread is in the Automated section so maybe thats what hes after , his post makes it more seem like a standard Electric panel build.

 

[MrShake]

Well for one, even though im glad BrewTroller is coming back its still sold out on your site.

Second, cost..you could in theory put Raspbian on a 2Gb SD card(basically free at this point) in a $5 RPI Zero and have a Strangebrew controller ready to hook into your SSR's and rest of the panel in short order for less than the price of going out to lunch.

It really depends on what your end goal is. To me BCS/BrewTroller is just overkill unless you plan to automate valves and control the entire process from beginning to end with a button press, and or multiple fermentation chambers.

Granted this thread is in the Automated section so maybe thats what hes after , his post makes it more seem like a standard Electric panel build.

I think you would find it a little more complex than a 5 dollar RPI zero and bam... but I see what your getting at. And, BrewTrollers will be back in stock shortly!!!

I'd compare it to like the BrewPi, which is RPi based, and even the basic package there is approx the same as a BrewTroller or BCS, so there is quite a bit involved when it comes to temp monitoring, and actual control circuitry.

 

[Brewing Clamper]

The main reason for using the RPi is that I have 3 of them... and only one is used continuously as a Kodi client. Since I already have it might as well use it. I also have a few one wire probes laying around and I've been able to use them to test Elsinore and craftbrewpi, I haven't looked at brewpi mainly because, while I do love their interface I don't want to have to use the spark board when I know the RPI will do the job just fine on it's own... BrewTroller and BCS are nice products but I can't justify the price. I'm mainly concerned with being able to automatically do step mashing with my RIMS tube through some sort of recipe or profile I can load onto the software. Maybe hop addition timers, but the rest is no big deal...

 

[oakbarn]

I had single PIDs before I moved up to a BCS 462. It really helps to control your Temepratures in a very precise way. Easy to program once you get the hang of it. Not 100% automation but does take care of a lot of things on a brew day. You can start with some limited automation and build to almost complete control.

You can use time or floats for Volumes.
You can control an electric Element to 0.1 degrees F.
You can control an Electric Boil.
You can control Fermentaion Chambers.
You can control Pumps.
You can control Valves.
You have Timers.
You have an Alarm.
You can set up complete Processes for your brew day.
You can control a Fly Sparge

Basically, you can do it.
So for me the BCS is a great tool.

I even set up a Hop Dropper Widget off an old soap displenser thing recovered from a door of an old dishwasher that would drop my hops at the correct time.

 

[BrunDog]

+1 on BCS. Unless you need analog input/output, it gets the job done well without a crapload of effort. If they ever create a real BCS Pro... lights out!

 

[JonW]

+1 on BCS. Unless you need analog input/output, it gets the job done well without a crapload of effort. If they ever create a real BCS Pro... lights out!

It's not an "if".... it will be here.

 

[ClaudiusB]

I even set up a Hop Dropper Widget off an old soap displenser thing recovered from a door of an old dishwasher that would drop my hops at the correct time.

Any pics?

 

[oakbarn]

I removed my hop dropper but am working on another that is 12 vdc. I did not like the 110 vac. I should have the parts in shortly. Regardless, the BCS will handle it nicely. I have found the BCS really helps me focus on the brew process. Temperature and Time are all pre programmed. I clean the MLT and HERMS while the Boil is Going. THe BCS basically does it itself although I manually change valves. It takes about 2 hours off my total brew day which I consider from when I walk in the Brewery until I leave with everything clean and ready for my next brew.

 

[MrShake]

+1 on BCS. Unless you need analog input/output, it gets the job done well without a crapload of effort. If they ever create a real BCS Pro... lights out!

BrewTroller can do all of it with about the same effort as a BCS... and those "pro" features.. just sayin..



Either way, I think the pros of seting up a microcrontroller setup outweighs the cons, even in just ease of a brew day, and future expansion.

 

[BrunDog]

BrewTroller can do all of it with about the same effort as a BCS... and those "pro" features.. just sayin..







Either way, I think the pros of seting up a microcrontroller setup outweighs the cons, even in just ease of a brew day, and future expansion.

True, but BCS is something that can actually be bought (today anyway). Not saying it's the best, but practical and very, very good for automated digital I/O rigs

 

[MrShake]

True, but BCS is something that can actually be bought (today anyway). Not saying it's the best, but practical and very, very good for automated digital I/O rigs

SOON!!! *muhahahahaha* I don't do an evil mr burns well... DOH!

 

[Islandboy85]

I went the Strangebrew Elsinore(RPI) method and wouldnt think twice about doing it again. It allows me to keep my panel very simple, yet get all of the functionality of a PID box, plus a lot more as they now have support for Level sensors and inline PH sensors. Its not fully automated, it is just a Kal setup with no manual PID's. Its all software PID control through the RPI. I like being able to fit everything in a small 10x10 box, although i'd go up to 12x12 if i was to do it again. Being able to control and monitor things from across the room, or at the dinner table if i need to step away for a moment is very nice. Its all controlled via web interface, very similar to how a BrewPi functions which maybe why im partial to it

My overall cost was pretty low i'd say $300-400 for the panel, about $260 in parts and another $100 in tools i didnt have like ratcheting crimpers, step bits, etc.

You can find the entire build of my setup here
https://www.reddit.com/r/StrangeBrew/comments/3wful4/my_3_vessel_eherms_build/

I have a Beaglebone Black laying around from a few years ago that I still haven't fired up. I've thought about using if for the same thing as you did, but also considered the traditional Kal clone, BCS, and Brewtroller. One thing that concerns me is that if the internet glitches I may lose a batch. I am not sure if my distrust of Internet controlled devices is really a big deal to anyone else here or not. The one thing holding me back is that I want the brewery to be a stand alone thing. If I brew somewhere there's no internet, or it's down I can still brew. The main things I want to do is log my mash temperature, and have temperature automation. I have manual control of all the pumps in my design. So, now that I've gone on for a bit here, what would you say about my internet controlled device apprehension?

 

[oakbarn]

..., what would you say about my internet controlled device apprehension?

While the BCS has a Web Interface, you do NOT need the Internet. A simple Stand Alone Router and you can connect. If you lose the connection, it keeps trucking anyway.

 

[Islandboy85]

While the BCS has a Web Interface, you do NOT need the Internet. A simple Stand Alone Router and you can connect. If you lose the connection, it keeps trucking anyway.

So all the different brewery controllers that are tied to the internet operate by only changing their settings when a command comes from online?

 

[crane]

So all the different brewery controllers that are tied to the internet operate by only changing their settings when a command comes from online?

Yes and no. Most users will completely control the BCS from the Web interface. For me though I start the first process from the web interface but the rest of the brew day is done with switches and buttons on the control panel. I use the 7 segment displays to monitor the temperatures.

View attachment 1459700083374.jpg

 

[jlongstreet]

So all the different brewery controllers that are tied to the internet operate by only changing their settings when a command comes from online?

They're not on the internet, they're on your local network. If the connection to the internet is lost, your local network is still there.

edit: to expand on this: The Internet is a network of smaller computer networks. Everything connected to your router, either via WiFi or with a wired Ethernet connection, is part of your local network. Your router handles routing data between your local network and the rest of the Internet. When your connection to the Internet is lost, your local network is just fine. Devices on that network can still talk to each other, because the Internet isn't involved. You may be accessing that service through a web browser, but the data is never leaving your house.

 

[jddevinn]

They're not on the internet, they're on your local network. If the connection to the internet is lost, your local network is still there.

edit: to expand on this: The Internet is a network of smaller computer networks. Everything connected to your router, either via WiFi or with a wired Ethernet connection, is part of your local network. Your router handles routing data between your local network and the rest of the Internet. When your connection to the Internet is lost, your local network is just fine. Devices on that network can still talk to each other, because the Internet isn't involved. You may be accessing that service through a web browser, but the data is never leaving your house.

Unless you set it up so you can remote access I can control my BCS on my local network or my PC at work or my cell phone.

 

[oakbarn]

You DO NOT need the Internet to use the BCS. The easist way to hook up to it is via a Router. The Router can be connected to the Internet or not. You need the Internet with the BCS for only 2 reasons.

1. Download an Update. This is a small file and can be downloaded EXTERNAL to the Router LAN of a BCS. This happens rarely. You just need to get the file. The BCS does not need the Internet to update, just the file. I could download the file to a thumbdrive at the Library if I wanted to.

2. There is a Calibration Utility that needs the Internet to use. I doubt if 1% OF BCS users have ever used it, or would need to.

The bottom line is that you need a computer (MAC/Windows/Chromebook) to program and run the BCS. You can even see it in a Rassberry or Audrino or Smartphone but the screen is more difficult (too small).

You just need a browser, preferable Chrome, to access and Program the BCS. Once it is up and running (for something like Fementation with a Dyactel Rest, You could disconnect the computer and come back in a month, and it would have done its thing. Of course you want to monitor it, so you would not normally do that, but you could.

 

[Islandboy85]

Thanks for the great explanation guys.

 

[JonW]

You can even see it in a Rassberry or Audrino or Smartphone but the screen is more difficult (too small).

That's not necessarily true. I use a Raspberry Pi as the host computer and a 21" 1920x1080 touchscreen monitor to control the BCS. Yes, many people use a tiny display with their Raspberry Pi's, but you can plug in a full size HDMI monitor too.

 

[MrShake]

I have a Beaglebone Black laying around from a few years ago that I still haven't fired up. I've thought about using if for the same thing as you did, but also considered the traditional Kal clone, BCS, and Brewtroller. One thing that concerns me is that if the internet glitches I may lose a batch. I am not sure if my distrust of Internet controlled devices is really a big deal to anyone else here or not. The one thing holding me back is that I want the brewery to be a stand alone thing. If I brew somewhere there's no internet, or it's down I can still brew. The main things I want to do is log my mash temperature, and have temperature automation. I have manual control of all the pumps in my design. So, now that I've gone on for a bit here, what would you say about my internet controlled device apprehension?

BrewTroller is 100% standalone. With the use of the 20x4 LCD and a rotary encoder, you can brew without any external device. The Web Applications just extend the functionality to a browser or phone.

 

[oakbarn]

BrewTroller is 100% standalone. With the use of the 20x4 LCD and a rotary encoder, you can brew without any external device. The Web Applications just extend the functionality to a browser or phone.

The BCS can be stand alone as well. Once I start the Process, I can control it without a Computer, but if you want to see what you are doing, it is easier with a computer. I actually have the computer in another room and control my flow with a Toggle switch.

 

[BrunDog]

I will add that BCS has been rock solid for me. Never experienced a lockup, crash, or other oddity.

 

[MrShake]

The BCS can be stand alone as well. Once I start the Process, I can control it without a Computer, but if you want to see what you are doing, it is easier with a computer. I actually have the computer in another room and control my flow with a Toggle switch.

the key is "once I start the Process" BCS is a good choice, no doubt though!

 

[JonW]

the key is "once I start the Process" BCS is a good choice, no doubt though!

That's just the way he does it. You can start/stop processes using a switch or push button on the BCS if you wish.

The reality with any of these systems is that you need to see something for feedback of temps and process/state to know what is happening and that can either be a little 4 line display like the BT or a phone/tablet/PC/Pi, etc. display for a BCS.

 

[MrShake]

That's just the way he does it. You can start/stop processes using a switch or push button on the BCS if you wish.

The reality with any of these systems is that you need to see something for feedback of temps and process/state to know what is happening and that can either be a little 4 line display like the BT or a phone/tablet/PC/Pi, etc. display for a BCS.

Its certainly not an either or... BT has phone/tablet/pc/pi options as well. I was unaware you can start/stop a process with a button on BCS, good to know!