College Choices: Engineering Universities

[HopHeavy]

Not brewing related at all, I know. I can't help but notice there are a couple of engineering types here and those folks might be able to help us out with a college search question.

My daughter is entering college in the fall and has been accepted to a few bioengineering programs. The two front runners are Stevens Institute of Technology and Northeastern University. Both offer five year masters programs with paid coop learning semesters. Both will be expensive endeavors, but Northeastern significantly more so. She has also been accepted at a couple of state schools which would obviously be significantly cheaper...

So the big questions are... In the engineering world, which bears the better reputation in engineering? How important is that reputation in the job market?

 

[6Tap]

Hopheavy,

Glad to hear your daughter is interested in the field of engineering!

I got my Civil Engineering degree from a state university and have also worked with others with other state and private university degrees.

My comments are as follows:

Choose a school that has an academic program that best fits her interests. She needs to enjoy where she is going to school since she will be working hard to get that degree.

As far as the construction industry, hiring managers are more interested in what experience the person has (ie internships/ part time work within the field of work).

I have found the degree to be a requirement from the employers more for the “completion” of an academic program and not what school the degree was from.

Remember that learning does not stop after getting a degree! There are certificates and on the job training that employers like to also see.


Best of luck with your search and your daughters education!

Cheers,
6Tap

 

[LoneTreeFarms]

Graduated from Iowa state in civil engineering almost 20 years ago. I'd say check out both colleges and the bio programs. I see northeastern is in the top 50 in the us. Baby steps first though. Concentrate on her undergrad. Sometimes the masters degree narrows down the field of expertise too much making them tougher to get hired. But that's just my two cents.

 

[HopHeavy]

@6Tap & @LoneTreeFarms - Thanks for the input. She is leaning heavy toward Northeastern. At a cost of attendance approaching 25K per semester, I can't help thinking the State University of New York route would ultimately provide a better return on investment. Unless she can't get a job when she graduates from a state program!

 

[schematix]

The school i went to for engineering had many classrooms with a view of the Pacific Ocean. Highly recommend it.

 

[Kent88]

I can only offer an endorsement for South Dakota State University. I know some people who graduated with Engineering degrees from SDSU and they're doing pretty well. Most have good jobs and are supporting a family.

I don't know how well their bioengineering program compares to others, a very quick look suggests that it is still a work in progress.

One of their slogans is "You can go anywhere from here", and they've made an effort to make sure their credits transfer smoothly to other schools, and back when my wife and I attended it was very affordable. The Jackrabbit Guarantee made sure that if a student had a decent ACT score (for incoming freshmen) or a decent GPA that they got a scholarship of at least $1,000. And in my wife's department we found out that the administration worked hard to make sure that if you were getting fantastic grades that you would get good scholarships.

 

[LoneTreeFarms]

I've heard good things about sdsu as well.

 

[passedpawn]

Not brewing related at all, I know. I can't help but notice there are a couple of engineering types here and those folks might be able to help us out with a college search question.

My daughter is entering college in the fall and has been accepted to a few bioengineering programs. The two front runners are Stevens Institute of Technology and Northeastern University. Both offer five year masters programs with paid coop learning semesters. Both will be expensive endeavors, but Northeastern significantly more so. She has also been accepted at a couple of state schools which would obviously be significantly cheaper...

So the big questions are... In the engineering world, which bears the better reputation in engineering? How important is that reputation in the job market?

Answering your second question first, I'd say that your college has no bearing on your career after your first job. Advancement in an engineering career is all about engineering experience and related accomplishments. Getting that first job is very important of course, and the school name will help with that. Better engineering schools draw quality company interviewers. I got hired by GE, into their "Edison Program", right out of school. It was as big break for me.

I got my EE degree at Villanova. It's not really an engineering school, but it did have a pretty good reputation and that got me the first job. Looking back, I don't think it made any difference in my career though.

So, I'd send her to the state school. My youngest is graduating with a bio chemistry degree from Univ of FL in a month. He was accepted to every school he applied to, but chose the state school. He's had great opportunities and no regrets.

 

[TheDudeLebowski]

Northeastern University grad from Electrical and Computer Engineering. I had been accepted to top rated schools and decided on NU. I'm sure you know the answer, it's just the excitement of the new journey. There's a reason why schools have a good reputation: good curriculum, latest experience in technology to parlay into the job market, location and research. Is it worth it? There's no definitive answer except what you make of it. I did the co-op program. The reputation of the program does help you get into the field. However, at the time the engineering program was 5 years because of the co-op. Honestly, I would have liked to get out of school sooner. I wouldn't have had the contacts I had made during my co-op so maybe it would have been a little more riskier.

I also know people that go to a "cheaper" school, with a good curriculum, for under grad and get their masters/phd at a higher reputation school. That's probably where reputation becomes more important. Undergrad you do pay for classes that you'd never use again. I had taken more calculus and physics classes than my math and physic major roommates. It does help in flexing your brain in domains which is good in engineering. I think the biggest thing I learned at NU was how to deal with stress and an overload of work I think I could have forgone the co-op program if my parents were engineers and had contacts. They were not.

Another route with a just an undergrad degree: Many companies also will pay for your masters degree. It does add to the stress of working and school tho.

Going to school in Boston is great. There's a lot to learn and experience outside of school as well as the comradery of all the other surrounding great schools in New England. There is no definitive path but I decided on engineering because I believed I could make a living out of it. If I had loans, I hoped that when I graduated I would have a job to make a good living. NU was expensive at the time but school loans never killed me.

Plus Boston has tons of hi tech and biomedical companies so she should be able to make a lot of contacts. I'm sure NU is intimately tied with them. Who knows maybe they even do part time work with some during the school year.

Bioengineering I assume is difficult and what makes her happy could also put some extra fuel in the gas tank to make it through the tough times. The great thing is everything is new to her and she may change her mind along the way. It might drive you crazy but it will be fun to watch her grow. There is no right answer. In the end it is all what she makes of it. In the end it quickly becomes her skills and reputation. Now as what NU says "where's my check "

 

[MaxStout]

I can only offer an endorsement for South Dakota State University. I know some people who graduated with Engineering degrees from SDSU and they're doing pretty well. Most have good jobs and are supporting a family.

I don't know how well their bioengineering program compares to others, a very quick look suggests that it is still a work in progress.

One of their slogans is "You can go anywhere from here", and they've made an effort to make sure their credits transfer smoothly to other schools, and back when my wife and I attended it was very affordable. The Jackrabbit Guarantee made sure that if a student had a decent ACT score (for incoming freshmen) or a decent GPA that they got a scholarship of at least $1,000. And in my wife's department we found out that the administration worked hard to make sure that if you were getting fantastic grades that you would get good scholarships.

Ha! I'm an SDSU grad, BSEE.

Engineering hiring managers tend to be more pragmatic; they are looking for sharp people with knowledge and skill in the field, and are less concerned as to whether the candidate went to a state school vs. prestigious private school. This is especially true at the undergraduate level. If the school is ABET-accredited, the curricula is basically standardized, whether the tuition costs 25k or 100k a year. The best thing is for her to get into a school that has the engineering program that most closely matches the field she is interested in, and for her to shoot for a high GPA while there. That will set her well ahead of her competitors when she is starting her career.

 

[schematix]

The right path to choose depends upon what she wants to ultimately do, if she even knows yet. An engineering degree does not necessarily mean she has to become an engineer either.

Is she highly technical? Is she an outgoing, likeable person? Does she have a good business sense? Is she a leader? Does she have interests other technical fields?

There are a lot of careers out there where an engineering degree will open the door... technical sales, project managers, engineering leadership.

I received my BS EE from a highly ranked University of California school. Paid out of state tuition, which was not cheap, but not the worst. From a purely academic perspective i think the curriculum we received was much more rigorous than what my coworkers have experienced who went to low cost in state schools. That doesn't mean they haven't been really good at their jobs though. They may even make more money than me now, or could end up exceeding me in salary and rank later on. It also matters what you continue to put into it, and who your friends are.

I'd summarize it...
-If she's doesn't enjoy endless science and math (specifically biology and chemistry for bioE), change course now.
-Best value is state school now, and spend the bigger dollars on graduate programs later.
-You can't really do much real world bio engineering without a post graduate program too. You'll still have an engineering degree though.
-If she's thinking management or leadership, think post graudate MBA later.
-Most important: make sure it's a place she's going to be happy at and fit in. Failing out even 1 semester is disastrous in financial terms when you consider wasted tuition, room, board and lost future wages. If she's a home body, make sure it doesn't take an airplane to travel home to see mom and dad.
-passed hit it right on too. the degree doesn't really matter anymore after the first job. it's the experience and knowledge you've gained in the real world. It is important to be geographically located where the jobs are.

 

[TheDudeLebowski]

I think getting back to your question on reputation, the only time it really comes into play in undergrad is with alumni of the same school. The only other ones even for post graduate are the top schools

Think of MIT. It has a reputation as engineering school. Why? Not the piece of paper diploma. It's the research that it is known for in it's circles. Which are mainly do to funding, teachers and lesser extent students leading the industry.

I think unless it's the cream of the crop hard work can make any school worth it.

Engineering has to do with the latest technology that probably isn't taught in school. It's mostly learned outside in research or good companies. It is also good to live in an area where that technology has a lot of leading companies in the field.

 

[Kent88]

Ha! I'm an SDSU grad, BSEE.

Nice! How recent?

 

[tdiowa]

Sounds like she is a smart young lady. Has she considered the service academies. All three are listed in the top 5 engineering schools in the country.

Plus no tuition.

My son received his engineering degree from Air Force and is flying for Fed Ex now.

 

[MaxStout]

Nice! How recent?

1995

 

[mirthfuldragon]

Something else to consider is how she is going to handle it, and what environment is going to be best for her to thrive in. Five years is a long time, more so at that young age. In retrospect, I hated my undergrad and my law school, and would have done better (socially, personally, and as a result, probably academically too) going to a different school.

 

[Kent88]

@MaxStout Skinners, Sullys, Rays, The 9, Cubby's, The Lantern (now the Wild Hare). Which, if any, do you have the fondest memories of?

 

[MaxStout]

There is a big difference in the hiring criteria of engineering vs. law. When I interviewed for engineering positions, the prospective employers were more interested in my grasp of the engineering principles I would use, and to a slightly lesser extent, my GPA (though I did do well in that respect). Law, OTOH, is a beauty contest. Most big law firms don't care so much what the candidate knows. They want grads from top-tier schools, sitting in the top 10% or so of their class rank.

For engineering, don't get too fixated on the prestige of the school. Go where the technical training matches your career objectives and do as well as you can, academically.

I will plug smaller state schools for another reason. Smaller class sizes and more face time with engineering faculty. Where I went, most of the 100-level courses were taught in big lecture halls, just like most schools. But from my sophomore year onward classes were about 30 or fewer students.

 

[MaxStout]

@MaxStout Skinners, Sullys, Rays, The 9, Cubby's, The Lantern (now the Wild Hare). Which, if any, do you have the fondest memories of?

I was a commuting student, driving in carpools to/from Sioux Falls each day. So not a lot of local partying. I did go to Jim's Tap a number of times, as I knew the owners then.

 

[HopHeavy]

Wow! Lots to read up in here... It sounds like the consensus here is state school will get you to the same place. The kid is a product of a meritocratic high school. I don't know that she could thrive in a state school.

@schematix & @tdiowa - She briefly considered applying for scholarships offered via NROTC and the Naval Academy. Unfortunately, she was made to understand the Navy would interrupt pursuit of any graduate school effort, with rare exceptions. That information was provided from the inside, though the source might have been mildly disgruntled with his own circumstances.

 

[MaxStout]

Wow! Lots to read up in here... It sounds like the consensus here is state school will get you to the same place. The kid is a product of a meritocratic high school. I don't know that she could thrive in a state school.

Why not? There's just as much a meritocracy in state schools, as any other. The competition among classmates is tough in any engineering school.

 

[HopHeavy]

I am with you in a straight return on investment sort of way. I spend a lot of time contemplating potential regrets. Right now the fear of a financial burden is paling to a fear that the kid won't achieve her full potential. She has a penchant for math and chemistry. (She is obsessing over a marginal slip in physics, though.) She has done nothing but excel so far.

There is a big difference in the hiring criteria of engineering vs. law.

Funny you say this... She has talked about law school and ultimately practicing with an engineering focus of some sort.

 

[passedpawn]

I am with you in a straight return on investment sort of way. I spend a lot of time contemplating potential regrets. Right now the fear of a financial burden is paling to a fear that the kid won't achieve her full potential. She has a penchant for math and chemistry. (She is obsessing over a marginal slip in physics, though.) She has done nothing but excel so far.



Funny you say this... She has talked about law school and ultimately practicing with an engineering focus of some sort.

I've worked with patent atty's and they either have staff atty's with engineering backgrounds or engineering consultants. Lots of tech oppo's there.

It's fine to plan now, but lots of time to decide (and change mind ). She's got at least 2 years of "high school recap" now (mostly english / basic math / science / history in 1st two years). My boy at UF skipped his last two years of high school for this reason (he'll be graduating before he can legally drink )

 

[MaxStout]

I am with you in a straight return on investment sort of way. I spend a lot of time contemplating potential regrets. Right now the fear of a financial burden is paling to a fear that the kid won't achieve her full potential. She has a penchant for math and chemistry. (She is obsessing over a marginal slip in physics, though.) She has done nothing but excel so far.



Funny you say this... She has talked about law school and ultimately practicing with an engineering focus of some sort.

I'm admitted to the patent bar, though I haven't prosecuted a patent application in many years (I'm more involved with litigation--long story). Patent attorneys with electrical and mechanical engineering backgrounds are always in demand. Attorneys with chemistry or ChemE, less so, at least around here, though they are in demand in places with lots of petroleum and chemical industries. Biology + law usually isn't as marketable for patents, unless the person has a PhD in biology. However, biomedical engineering has been in high demand for patent work around here. Minneapolis/St. Paul has a large number of medical device mfrs, like Medtronic, Boston Scientific, St. Jude Medical. If she is interested in combining bioengr. with law, there are a number of places around the country she could go with that.

BTW, patent law is one of a very few areas of law that doesn't require a law degree. The US Patent & Trademark Office (USPTO) will allow persons with certain engineering and science degrees to sit for the patent bar exam. If passed, that person becomes a patent agent, but is not an attorney. In the eyes of the USPTO, for patent prosecution, it doesn't make a difference if a practitioner is a patent agent or attorney--they both are given equal footing. But the practical side is that there are much fewer opportunities for patent agents at law firms and corporations, and if they do hire agents, the pay is typically much less than that of attorneys. Why? Because firms and corporate law departments want someone who is licensed to do related practices of law, like litigation, licensing, etc., where a patent agent is not qualified.

I think a bioengineering degree coupled with a law degree would be a hot ticket. If she is interested in that route, she should meet some practitioners who do that, so she can get a glimpse of what the job is like.

 

[LoneTreeFarms]

Agree with one of the above posters. I started out in chemical engineering. Fast forward two years I realized that I wanted to spend more time outside and less time in a lab. Changed majors to civil engineering and couldn't be happier with my decision. You can't expect you teenager to know exactly what they want to do or who they want to be for the rest of their life. You're in the right path by giving her options to make her own choice. State or private. 20k or 70k let her make that decision as it's one she will have for the rest of her life.

 

[TheDudeLebowski]

Agree with one of the above posters. I started out in chemical engineering. Fast forward two years I realized that I wanted to spend more time outside and less time in a lab. Changed majors to civil engineering and couldn't be happier with my decision. You can't expect you teenager to know exactly what they want to do or who they want to be for the rest of their life. You're in the right path by giving her options to make her own choice. State or private. 20k or 70k let her make that decision as it's one she will have for the rest of her life.

Best post in this thread

 

[HopHeavy]

Thank you, everyone, for your insights. You have, in the very least, validated my daughter's potential career plans and made me feel better about them in the process. I am sure it will all work out in the end!