Cold crash on yeast bed vs racked

[Peaty Jones]

I have done my previous batches so that i cold crash ON YEAST BED after diacetyl rest a 1C/day until i’m at 1-2C and then close transfer it to keg which i move to my keezer for lagering.

Should i do it as so again or!! Should i transfer it to a keg AFTER DIACETYL REST and start cold crashing it in keezer -> lagering.

The last method would give the beer more yeast for the lagering phase but would it be beneficial to have more yeast in the lagering phase?

I assume both ways would end up ok but what do you guys think? More yeast for lagering on the expence of clarity and a possible yeasty taste in beer.

 

[stamandster]

You don't really want yeast in the conditioning phase, these will lead to off flavors from dead yeast cells. It should be as clean as possible.

 

[Peaty Jones]

You don't really want yeast in the conditioning phase, these will lead to off flavors from dead yeast cells. It should be as clean as possible.

I agree. But i have heard some breweries have lagering vessels which have these kind of ribs inside to hold more yeast and surface area with the yeast because the yeast is quite alive and well in the lagering phase and its the yeast which itself does all the cleaning and maturing in lagering.

On this perspective wouldnt it be beneficial to have more yeast in lagering phase?

 

[stamandster]

Hmm... only if you are sure still have residual sugars to ferment out (ex. a few points to go), then cold crashing then lagering on yeast after the rest will be beneficial. Try it and see if changes your flavor, etc. profile. You can always transfer off of the yeast into another keg to condition.

Also an interesting post which discusses this a little bit -

 

[sibelman]

Question re the word "crash:" seems to suggest something fast (vs. 1-2°C / day). Slow to be nice to the yeast? Isn't the crash intended to take almost all the yeast (and other suspended stuff) to the bottom and thus out of the picture?

 

[Peaty Jones]

Question re the word "crash:" seems to suggest something fast (vs. 1-2°C / day). Slow to be nice to the yeast? Isn't the crash intended to take almost all the yeast (and other suspended stuff) to the bottom and thus out of the picture?

In case of lager youre supposed to slowly dial the temperature down so that the yeast wouldnt suffer a shock. The idea is the have some alive yeast in the lagering stage. In case of any other beer type you can just crash it straight away to almost freezing temperatures. But yes the term ”crash” is a bit confusing in case of lager!

 

[Peaty Jones]

Hmm... only if you are sure still have residual sugars to ferment out (ex. a few points to go), then cold crashing then lagering on yeast after the rest will be beneficial. Try it and see if changes your flavor, etc. profile. You can always transfer off of the yeast into another keg to condition.

Also an interesting post which discusses this a little bit -

Im too scared to try it because i didnt have any flaws in my previous batches. Maybe its better to be Safe than sorry. Im just asking these questions to have some chat and discussion about peoples opinions and the reasons behind them

 

[stamandster]

Naw you'll be fine. I think that the adjustment will have "some" impact but not in a bad way.

 

[Bobby_M]

If you diacetyl rest to FG, there's not much problem with crashing the yeast out before kegging. If you prefer to be more traditional about it, you'd slowly ramp it down so the yeast can continue to do the byproduct cleanup. It's usually one or the other.

 

[Broothru]

If you diacetyl rest to FG, there's not much problem with crashing the yeast out before kegging. If you prefer to be more traditional about it, you'd slowly ramp it down so the yeast can continue to do the byproduct cleanup. It's usually one or the other.

I do a diacetyl rest ~5 points before estimated FG @ 73F for 3-5 days under a spunding valve, until I get three days of consecutive gravity readings. Then do a rapid diacetyl test. Assuming it’s negative, I go straight to 38F, which takes about two days to reach on my system. Give it 5-7 days to settle out, and transfer under pressure to a purged keg.

Clear, carbonated beer at serving temperature.

 

[oldschool]

There’s a lot of misinformation on making lager beer. Maybe it’s not “misinformation” but I think some points get muddled along the way.
There are essentially two ways to make lager beer after brew day with many variations on each of the two branches.

Version 1 (traditional method and uncommon today by beer volume in Germany)
Cool the wort in to the low range of the lager beer fermentation in an insulated and glycol jacketed tank, then let it rise up to fermentation temp (48-52f), let the beer gravity drop to 90% complete then spund and transfer to an uninsulated tank in a cold room.
Keep in mind the diacetyl and precursor number is still high at this point.
Over the next days and weeks the remaining fermentable extract is metabolized, the total diacetyl is reduced below threshold, and the beer reaches a very cold temperature (30-32f). Then the beer is ready once the brewer says so.
In this method it’s obvious why yeast is necessary to be in the secondary vessel.

Version 2 (modern method and more practical)
The wort is cooled to a similar temperature and then allowed to rise to proper fermentation temp (48-52f) and the beer reaches terminal gravity and held at this temperature until the diacetyl is below threshold. The beer is then rapidly cooled to 30-32f and held for a week or more/until the brewer says so. During this cold “lager” period the taste rounds out and further cold break is precipitated and settled out along with the yeast.
This cold lager time happens in both versions but the main difference is the temperature at which the last fermentable extract and diacetyl is reduced. Version 1 can take WEEKS to reduce the diacetyl.

With this you can make a decision on what to do. I use the new method and it makes good beer.
My kegerator isn’t cold enough for “lagering.”
I’ve heard some craft brewers say that if you crash to 35, it takes longer than at 30 but this just is just false. You have to think about what you’re trying to achieve by the cold storage. You’ll never get the same effect of storage at 35 than you will at 30. I’m not saying the beer won’t still be great.
With extended time there is always some oxidation and I think this is what a lot of people associate with long lagering.