CO2 Leak During Force Carbonation

[bustincaps]

Hi All,

First time posting, I love the forums, you've all taught me a lot, everything from A to Z of my homebrewing experience.

This is my third batch, first time kegging. I know there are a lot of CO2 leak discussions on here, but my question is more regarding timing/psi during force carbonating. Apologies for the long post.

After transferring my 6 gal lager batch to my keg, I decided to go for the 30 psi for 36 hour method of force carbonating and hooked up everything to my 5 lbs CO2 tank (this was at about 1PM Saturday). I put the tank and keg in the fridge at 38F (my serving temp). I was in a bit of a hurry and clearly did a bad job checking for leaks because I woke up Sunday to find an empty tank. I unhooked the coupler and put the keg back in the fridge. As there are were no shops open today to refill my tank, I will not be able to get the keg back under gas until around 7PM Monday after work. Once I get home Monday evening I will re-attach the tank, check for leaks with Starsan and ensure everything is up to standard before giving carbonating another shot.

Now, between the time I found the tank empty on Sunday (1PM) and 7PM on Monday, I'm looking at AT LEAST 30 hours during which the 30 psi pressure in the keg is slowly dropping as the CO2 dissolves into the beer. Considering I was not able to check the CO2 readings Saturday during the day, I'm not quite sure how long the keg was actually under constant 30 psi before the tank ran out.

My best guess is that the tank lasted around 8-10 hours which would put the timeline at 8 hours of 30 psi & 46 hours of psi dropping as it dissolves into the beer. I'm basing this off of a conservative estimate - no real evidence to back up my hypothesis. In fact the range could be completely different for all I know.

SO - considering the above, how long and at what pressure should I be force carbonating considering the damage I have already done? I'm aiming for 2.5 volumes of CO2.

I'm inclined to take it slow - purge and set to 20 psi on Monday night for 12 hours, sample the beer, then purge and drop to 14-18 psi for another 12 hours depending on how close it seems. My thought process here is to avoid overcarbonating.

Is this the right way to go about this? Does the multiple changes in pressure affect the beer? Should I just go back up to a constant 30 psi for another 16 hours?

I'd like to have the beer ready for Super Bowl Sunday next weekend so I'd like to avoid converting to a set-it and forget it psi of 11 and waiting several weeks at this point (not sure if that is even recommended at this point)


Learning for next time: ALWAYS check for leaks. Check your CO2 readings frequently. Be patient - maybe the set it and forget it method is better for next time.

I know I'm definitely going to get some head shakes for this one. I'm also pretty angry with myself for these dumb errors considering I was almost home-free.

Thanks for the help guys!

 

[Munchkin]

I dont exactly have an answer for your main issue but checking for leaks literally takes a few seconds. You already mentioned checking this next time, but for any newbies (including myself) out there a quick squirt of a star san solution around fittings will easily show a leak and save you filling a new co2 tank

 

[bustincaps]

Thank you for the reply. Yeah, I know - huge mistake on my part. I guess it serves me right for being reckless.
Anyone else have any ideas for what they would do in this situation?

 

[FloppyKnockers]

You could always quick carb it (shake method*) or what I do if I had a few days I would just hook it up to serving pressure** and it should be carbed in three to four days.

*With the gas hooked up to the gas side at about 25 psi, lay the chilled keg on its side (gas post up) and rock it, kinda vigorously, for two to three minutes.

**Some people hook the gas up to the out hole so the gas bubbles up through the beer to quicken the carb time.

 

[bustincaps]

Thanks for the suggestion. I'll definitely consider it. I've read about a lot of overcarb stories with the shake method so I think I'll hold off on that one especially since I'm not quite sure how much the beer is carbonated already.

However, maybe it's not a bad idea to just hook it up at serving pressure as you suggested. Do you think 3-4 days will be enough? I've read the set and forget method takes a couple of weeks, do you think the amount of time I had it under 30 psi is enough to cut down the time that significantly?

 

[kombat]

The thing is, you're just guessing. There's no way to really know how much CO2 is already in solution in there, although if the tank drained to 0, then I'd say the pressure in the keg is also 0, and most of the CO2 that did manage to dissolve into the beer during those first 8-10 hours has since bubbled back out. The amount of CO2 still in solution will be very minimal. You're basically starting from scratch.

That said, if it were me, and I wanted the beer to be ready for next Sunday, I'd set the pressure to 10-12 psi and shake the keg until no more gas was transferring. I know you said you're worried about overcarbing with burst-carbing, but with this method, it's impossible to overcarb it. If your pressure is only 10 psi, then the most that can possibly dissolve into the beer is 10 psi. The beer/tank will equalize when the beer is saturated at that pressure, and no more will dissolve, even if you keep shaking.

I would set it at 10 psi, shake the bejeezus out of the keg for 3-5 minutes until no more gas was flowing, then bump the pressure up to 12 psi and put the keg in the fridge until serving time.

 

[Minky]

One thing you ought to do is to verify that your kegs have the right posts and poppets on them. When I first started kegging, I bought some used Cornelius kegs that, unknown to me, had Firestone posts on them. I tried like hell to get poppets that would work consistently with them until I finally realized what the problem was. I ended up having to buy new posts.

 

[TheMattTrain]

From my experience, I don't find that "set it and forget" takes more than a week at 10-12 PSI (my serving pressure). I think the best way to go for you at this point is to check the carb level by mouth feel. If it's only lightly carbed, do an overnight at 30 PSI, then drop it down to serving pressure and let it ride. You've still got until Sunday if you're just wanting it ready for the super bowl. You can also pressurize at 10-12 and rock it like suggest above until the CO2 stops flowing from your tank, then leave it sit.

 

[duboman]

The thing is, you're just guessing. There's no way to really know how much CO2 is already in solution in there, although if the tank drained to 0, then I'd say the pressure in the keg is also 0, and most of the CO2 that did manage to dissolve into the beer during those first 8-10 hours has since bubbled back out. The amount of CO2 still in solution will be very minimal. You're basically starting from scratch.

That said, if it were me, and I wanted the beer to be ready for next Sunday, I'd set the pressure to 10-12 psi and shake the keg until no more gas was transferring. I know you said you're worried about overcarbing with burst-carbing, but with this method, it's impossible to overcarb it. If your pressure is only 10 psi, then the most that can possibly dissolve into the beer is 10 psi. The beer/tank will equalize when the beer is saturated at that pressure, and no more will dissolve, even if you keep shaking.

I would set it at 10 psi, shake the bejeezus out of the keg for 3-5 minutes until no more gas was flowing, then bump the pressure up to 12 psi and put the keg in the fridge until serving time.

+1, my thoughts exactly. Pull the pressure release valve, my guess is there will be hardly any co2 that comes out of the keg

 

[dcross41796]

I had the same kind of issues when I first started to keg. Take your time and check for leaks with soap or star san. I suggest ordering the orings from the net from eBay or something and get a bunch so you can replace them every time you fill a keg up. You can get the sizes on the forum with a quick search. I set my psi to a little bit under 30 because I don't like to max out my gauge and let it sit for two days without the output line connected. Then turn it down to serving and you should be golden.

 

[barnaclebob]

Did you make sure there was a plastic washer in between the tank and the reg? Also you need plastic conical washers in any MFL to FFL connections. The ball lock fittings already have plastic on the ends so they don't need an extra washer.

 

[kombat]

I suggest ordering the orings from the net from eBay or something and get a bunch so you can replace them every time you fill a keg up.

That's overkill, but I do highly recommend you get yourself some keg lube and apply it to the lid's O-ring (top and bottom) with a Q-tip every time you fill a keg. Since I've started doing this, I've had way, way fewer leaks. Keg lube is magic.

 

[dcross41796]

That's overkill, but I do highly recommend you get yourself some keg lube and apply it to the lid's O-ring (top and bottom) with a Q-tip every time you fill a keg. Since I've started doing this, I've had way, way fewer leaks. Keg lube is magic.

IMO it would take the same amount of work to just slide a new oring on. Can get orings for such a cheap cost it is worth the extra piece of mind that the ring is seating well

 

[kombat]

OK but you should still be spreading on some keg lube anyway, even with a new ring. If there's nothing wrong with the current ring, why incur the cost of replacing the rings every time?

 

[dcross41796]

OK but you should still be spreading on some keg lube anyway, even with a new ring. If there's nothing wrong with the current ring, why incur the cost of replacing the rings every time?

I agree with that. I have just had issues with the orings not holding up. Even high quality ones. My post may tear them up or something idk. I just put the extra ten cents in to ensure my co2 is not wasted or other complications of a leaky keg. Just hope the original poster takes away tips from both of our suggestions so he has a great time kegging. It sucks when you can't enjoy a good homebrew do to complications like that. Cheers

 

[bustincaps]

Thanks for all of the suggestions & help everyone.

I'm working with a sanke keg so o-rings wouldn't help, but I will get my hands on some keg lube for the next batch.

Just a quick update on how things went, I hooked the system back up with no leaks. There was some CO2 still in the keg when I checked the release valve. I also went with the shake at serving pressure method that kombat suggested although I couldn't hear any gas flowing through as I was shaking. In either case, I gave it a few more tries shaking and have now left it to sit at 11psi in the fridge until serving time. I figure even if the shaking didn't do much, it will still carbonate over the next few days as it sits there. I'll give it a taster in a couple of days and see how things looks.

 

[Hello]

I never shake mine only because getting them in and out of the keezer is a bit more work for me. I do shake my soda keg (actual soda in the keg) because I find the sugar settles a bit more, or the syrup and it takes a very long time to carbonate. A few shakes every other day really helps keep things mixed and carbonation takes slightly less time.

Keg lube somehow is magic. I don't get it, but I love it. A tube so far has lasted me nearly a year and it looks brand new. I suspect it will last a good few years. I have 5 kegs on tap.

I also blew through my first CO2 canister the first time. The leak though was at the canister and I didn't think to spray that with star san. I've always used that method based on posts here. I don't use a soap solution because I find that to be a clean up disaster waiting to happen. Since then, the only leak I had was from a racetrack keg which was resolved with a new lid and a square shaped o-ring on the lid.