CO2 does not go through regulator

[prince87x]

I've just started kegging and bought a full 5 lb tank of CO2. I've hooked up a Brew Logic Double Gauge Regulator to it. I turned the tank fully to the open position and pressure needle does not move up at all. I've turned the red nob of the only line I have hooked up and nothing happens. I've pulled the pressure release and nothing came out so it seems no CO2 is even entering the regulator at all.

When I untighten the regulator to take it off the CO2 tank I hear a hiss of CO2 so I know it's coming out of the tank and the tank is full. I've tried it with the white plastic washer and without and both times nothing. I've tried pulling out the red knob but it doesn't pull in or out, only turns. I see no levers or anything else so I have no idea why the CO2 is not entering the regulator. I see kind of a golden metal mesh that cones into the regulator but I assume the gas can pass through and that's to stop liquid passing through.

I've attached a picture. Does anyone have any idea what could be wrong?

 

[ajdelange]

The high pressure gauge is indicating that the tank is empty. Take the regulator assembly off and weigh the tank. Stamped somewhere on it you will find its tare weight. It should weigh a couple of pounds more than the tare weight. Alternatively you can put the tank in the freezer for about half an hour. Then remove it to a warm humid area. Condensation will form over the whole surface of the tank but after a few minutes this will evaporate at the top of the tank. At the bottom the frost will persist. The dividing line between the frost and area with no frost is the liquid level in the tank.

 

[prince87x]

The high pressure gauge is indicating that the tank is empty. Take the regulator assembly off and weigh the tank. Stamped somewhere on it you will find its tare weight. It should weigh a couple of pounds more than the tare weight. Alternatively you can put the tank in the freezer for about half an hour. Then remove it to a warm humid area. Condensation will form over the whole surface of the tank but after a few minutes this will evaporate at the top of the tank. At the bottom the frost will persist. The dividing line between the frost and area with no frost is the liquid level in the tank.

hmm that's odd I haven't used the tank yet and they filled it for me when I bought it but I'll try that now.

Edit: it looks like the tank is 7.53 lbs. I weighed it and it was 12 lbs. I'm fairly sure I can feel the liquefied gas in the tank so I don't think it's empty.

 

[helibrewer]

Just to cover all bases, remove the regulator and check the tank valve orifice and the regulator connection for any obstructions. While you have the regulator off, crack the tank valve to check that gas exits....careful, it is high pressure.

 

[chocotaco]

Did you leave it in a hot place for any length of time? Safety valve could have blown if so.

 

[prince87x]

Just to cover all bases, remove the regulator and check the tank valve orifice and the regulator connection for any obstructions. While you have the regulator off, crack the tank valve to check that gas exits....careful, it is high pressure.

I cracked the tank real quickly while the regulator was off and it made a loud hiss. Here's a picture of the tank and regulator hookups. The regulator has kind of an odd golden metal mesh but that's probably standard.

 

[prince87x]

Did you leave it in a hot place for any length of time? Safety valve could have blown if so.

Neither were. I bought the tank and had it filled and brought it right home and placed it in the cool basement. The regulator came with a large order I placed from Midwest and was brought inside right as it arrived though I'm sure it was warm while traveling here.

 

[sandyeggoxj]

Do you have a friend that has a tank or regulator that you could try? The high pressure gauge isn't registering tank pressure. That means gas isn't getting to it. No matter what the HP gauge will register. The low pressures will only move when you turn the screws in on each regulator body.

Have you tried to contact the mfg of the regulator?

 

[day_trippr]

fwiw, the brass-looking cone inside the regulator coupling is a very small pore filter to keep debris from passing through...

Cheers!

 

[prince87x]

Do you have a friend that has a tank or regulator that you could try? The high pressure gauge isn't registering tank pressure. That means gas isn't getting to it. No matter what the HP gauge will register. The low pressures will only move when you turn the screws in on each regulator body.

Have you tried to contact the mfg of the regulator?

None of my friends homebrew but perhaps someone has a regulator I could borrow. I cannot find a website for Brew Logic so maybe I'll send an email to Midwest. Seems I've gotten a broken regulator and may need to return it for a replacement.

 

[sandyeggoxj]

None of my friends homebrew but perhaps someone has a regulator I could borrow. I cannot find a website for Brew Logic so maybe I'll send an email to Midwest. Seems I've gotten a broken regulator and may need to return it for a replacement.

If you are handy you could split the bodies and see if you have gas coming out the of the first regulator body. If not then shuffle the fittings around and see if the second body works.

Just be careful. Midwest might not take it back if you start fiddling around with it.

 

[prince87x]

After some more playing around with it I was able to split it apart. After hooking up just one piece of the regulator I saw that it was going through just fine. I put it back together and tried it again. This time I turned the knob all the way to the right and noticed that it did start coming out after I turned it all the way to the very right. No gas comes out until you get to the absolute farthest right point of the knob. From there very slight increments have a bit effect on the pressure but until you turn it as far to that side as it goes nothing will come out. I guess I wasn't turned it hard enough and going far enough for it to even begin coming.

The second knob works too though oddly enough the high pressure gauge does not work still. with both knobs open it still doesn't read any pressure. I guess it doesn't matter as long as the lesser pressure gauges work as they appear to be now. I'll just have to watch for when the tank appears to be empty.

 

[sandyeggoxj]

Nice! The HP gauge is pretty much useless on small bottles. Bigger bottles it is helpful but mostly entertainment.

Now go keg some beer!

 

[prince87x]

Nice! The HP gauge is pretty much useless on small bottles. Bigger bottles it is helpful but mostly entertainment.

Now go keg some beer!

Thanks for the help! This is my first time kegging and but it was fun seeing the starsan come out of the spout of my keggerator. Now to proceed with transferring my graff into it.

 

[chocotaco]

If it were me, I would contact the vendor and ask for a replacement HP gauge. Sure, it might be borderline useless, but you paid for it and it doesn't work.

 

[prince87x]

If it were me, I would contact the vendor and ask for a replacement HP gauge. Sure, it might be borderline useless, but you paid for it and it doesn't work.

sandyeggoxj was saying that they don't work well for smaller bottles, but it does seem odd that it stays at zero while both lower/lesser whatever they were gauges work fine. I'd already sent them a message about the whole thing not working so when they respond I'll just clarify that it's the HP gauge.

 

[sandyeggoxj]

sandyeggoxj was saying that they don't work well for smaller bottles, but it does seem odd that it stays at zero while both lower/lesser whatever they were gauges work fine. I'd already sent them a message about the whole thing not working so when they respond I'll just clarify that it's the HP gauge.

Oh they show you the bottle pressure just fine. But that pressure isn't terribly useful for gauging how much co2 you have left. A better method is weight. Co2 is measured and sold by the # and the pressure of 5# can vary 500 psi depending on the temperature.

 

[chocotaco]

sandyeggoxj was saying that they don't work well for smaller bottles, but it does seem odd that it stays at zero while both lower/lesser whatever they were gauges work fine. I'd already sent them a message about the whole thing not working so when they respond I'll just clarify that it's the HP gauge.

They "don't work well" is subjective. They don't really tell you *how much* CO2 you have left most of the time, but they *do* tell you when you are about to run out.

CO2 is liquid inside the tank. The liquid turns to gas at pressures under 500-1000 PSI depending on temperature. So as long as there is liquid CO2 still in the tank, the input pressure to the regulator depends only on the tank's temperature. So the HP gauge doesn't tell you much.

But, when you run out of liquid CO2, the HP gauge will start to fall relatively rapidly. In a 5lb tank dispensing kegs at 10 PSI, in a fridge at 38F, when your HP gauge drops to say 100 PSI you probably have enough gas left to dispense 1 keg. So this is actually useful, because you know you should start planning to fill your CO2 tank so that you don't end up halfway through a keg with no CO2 left. Depending on how inconvenient it is to get your CO2 filled, it can be useful to have that information for planning reasons.

Sorry if this is redundant info, just wanted you to know why the HP gauge acts the way it does and what people mean when they say it's "not that useful."

 

[ajdelange]

The high pressure gauge is quite useful at outdoor parties on warm summer days (above 88 °F). Then the reading of the high pressure gauge is proportional to the amount of CO2 remaining in the tank.

 

[rawlus]

The high pressure is a good indicator of gas or no gas, but not useful for how much. Yours does not appear to work at all. So it's broken and I would get a replacement.

 

[day_trippr]

The high pressure is a good indicator of gas or no gas, but not useful for how much.[...]

This seems to be the popular conception, but it's inaccurate at best, and simply incorrect at worse.
If you can read a chart, a reasonably accurate high pressure CO2 gauge is in fact useful for knowing when you're getting close to empty...

Cheers!

 

[sandyeggoxj]

That image displays odd on my phone. It looks like if you keep your bottle in the fridge you should see a pressure drop at around 12% capacity. In a small, 2.5 or 5#, tank that is a very small amount of co2 left. Now, on a larger tank like 20# it makes sense. You will start to see a pressure drop as your capacity is low.

That chart seems to support the idea that the HP gauge won't show you much until right at the very end. If you keep your bottle outside the fridge and room temp is 70 then you will start to see a change at 30%. That is a bit more useful.

I still think the beat way to tell is to weigh it. I always weigh mine after a fill to see if the gas company is effing with me. I also weigh them every few weeks to see what my usage is so I can plan. I don't care much tho because I keep backup tanks.

 

[raysmithtx]

It seemed counter intuitive to me the first time but to get the pressure to go up you have to screw the red knobs in. That's clockwise. If you turn on the tank then the gauge on the left should show some pressure. If to doesn't then the tank may be empty.


Sent from my iPad using Home Brew

 

[day_trippr]

T[...]That chart seems to support the idea that the HP gauge won't show you much until right at the very end. If you keep your bottle outside the fridge and room temp is 70 then you will start to see a change at 30%. That is a bit more useful. [...]

You don't need to look at this as a "knee event" thing. If you zoom in (probably need the full size image) you can actually follow the pressure vs temperature vs % of fill darned near right to the end...

Cheers!

 

[ajdelange]

The interesting thing about that chart is that it shows that the supercritical phase doesn't really start to act like a gas until the temperature gets respectably above the critical temperature.