Clone SN Tumbler...Help!

[Germelli1]

My Willamette schedule was 2 oz 4.7% AA at 60 minutes, and 1 oz 4.7% AA at 10 minutes. I was shooting for 36 IBU which is VERY close to tumbler.

 

[Paulgs3]

To echo other points in this thread, do NOT use peated or Cherrywood smoked malt. The smoke flavor in the Tumbler is very, very faint. Maybe use 1-2oz of the smoked only if you can't get any Weyerman Smoked malt, which is very low intensity.

Noted. Even though I really was intrigued by it, I might have to make a scottish ale.... I tend to overdo things, so its probably really good you are telling me this!

My Willamette schedule was 2 oz 4.7% AA at 60 minutes, and 1 oz 4.7% AA at 10 minutes. I was shooting for 36 IBU which is VERY close to tumbler.

AH! So you went all willamette, interesting. Thank you!

 

[Coldies]

My keg just carbed up and I have to say this stuff is delicious. There is 2 different recipes floating around and I kinda of combined them. I dont have the recipe I used in front of me but I know I used .75 lb of smoked malt and a split of chocolate malt and pale chocolate malt. The smoke is noticable but will fade over time. Mine came out a little darker as well. If anyone is interested I can post the recipe when I get home.

 

[Ricand]

To echo other points in this thread, do NOT use peated or Cherrywood smoked malt. The smoke flavor in the Tumbler is very, very faint. Maybe use 1-2oz of the smoked only if you can't get any Weyerman Smoked malt, which is very low intensity.

I avoided brown ales for a while after burning out on them. After making the Tumbler clone last fall (recipe in this thread), I've made 2 more and can't wait to make my next one. This beer kicked my enjoyment of browns back up. My last brown used CaraBrown malt and it was delicious, I highly recommend that stuff.

I just tried Tumbler for the first time yesterday and I think I found my fall beer. Could you post your final recipe on this beer? I'd appreciate it.

Rick

 

[Paulgs3]

My keg just carbed up and I have to say this stuff is delicious. There is 2 different recipes floating around and I kinda of combined them. I dont have the recipe I used in front of me but I know I used .75 lb of smoked malt and a split of chocolate malt and pale chocolate malt. The smoke is noticable but will fade over time. Mine came out a little darker as well. If anyone is interested I can post the recipe when I get home.

Can you post your recipe?

 

[Mexicanconnection2002]

Just last weekend kegged my attempt at a clone. While kegging it smelled very similar, didn't sample.
Will report back in about a week. Saved one Tumbler to do a side by side tasting.

7 gallon boil
5.5 gallon batch

5 Lb 10 oz Briess Golden Lt DME
1 lb Caramel 40L
12 oz Chocolate Malt
6 oz Briess Smoked Malt

.9 oz Challenger 60 mins
.6 oz Challenger 10 mins
1.0 oz Goldings, East Kent

Safale US05

Estimated
SRM 25
IBU 36.5
ABV 5.3 %

 

[bobbytuck]

Just discovered that NB's 'Emma's Brown Ale' with 4 oz. cherrywood smoked malt is a dead ringer for SN Tumbler. I'm drinking both now -- one fresh from the liquor store, one 7 days after bottling (3 weeks in the primary) -- and they're nearly identical. Freakily identical, in fact. Fermented with Safale-05 @ 62F for 2 weeks, ramped to 70F for a week.

The only difference is that my version of Emma's Brown has a bit more acidic "pop". My mash pH for Emma's Brown was around 5.2 at room temp (I was aiming for 5.3, but added a bit too much phosphoric acid during the mash). But they're essentially clones of each other. Mouthfeel is the same, hop level (very minimal) is the same. I stumbled into this -- it wasn't planned -- but I tasted Tumber about a month ago, detected the smoked malt right away, and a few days later made Emma's Brown with the only deviation as the 4oz. (2% of total grist) of cherrywood smoked malt. I expect it to be even closer after another couple weeks in the bottle. Used charcoal filtered Chicago/Lake Michigan water with a bit of gypsum and CaCl2 -- 94 Cl / 80 SO4 / 14 Mg / 18 Na / 96 Ca. Finished beer pH: 4.15.

 

[Paulgs3]

Just discovered that NB's 'Emma's Brown Ale' with 4 oz. cherrywood smoked malt is a dead ringer for SN Tumbler. I'm drinking both now -- one fresh from the liquor store, one 7 days after bottling (3 weeks in the primary) -- and they're nearly identical. Freakily identical, in fact. Fermented with Safale-05 @ 62F for 2 weeks, ramped to 70F for a week.

The only difference is that my version of Emma's Brown has a bit more acidic "pop". My mash pH for Emma's Brown was around 5.2 at room temp (I was aiming for 5.3, but added a bit too much phosphoric acid during the mash). But they're essentially clones of each other. Mouthfeel is the same, hop level (very minimal) is the same. I stumbled into this -- it wasn't planned -- but I tasted Tumber about a month ago, detected the smoked malt right away, and a few days later made Emma's Brown with the only deviation as the 4oz. (2% of total grist) of cherrywood smoked malt. I expect it to be even closer after another couple weeks in the bottle. Used charcoal filtered Chicago/Lake Michigan water with a bit of gypsum and CaCl2 -- 94 Cl / 80 SO4 / 14 Mg / 18 Na / 96 Ca. Finished beer pH: 4.15.

Interesting! I wanted to use that cherrywood smoked... and I can help a good cause by supporting Emma... and drink beer....Sounds like a winner!

I already ordered and received ingredients (Everything except 2 row and yeast...). I'm gonna save it for a porter, and get two of the NBs kits. Hell, they are only $20 a kit!!

 

[bobbytuck]

If I'd make Emma's again with the smoked malt, I'd probably drop the cherrywood down a bit -- maybe 2.0-2.5oz instead of 4oz (essentially using the 1% SN is using, I guess).

The smoked malt in Tumbler (to my palette, at least) is in the background -- but detectable. It seems to me that the trick with cloning this is dialing in the smoked malt. My version of Tumbler (i.e., Emma's Brown) has the smoked malt just slightly more forward than Tumbler. It's definitely in the ballpark, though -- and it might be that my palette is sensitive to the cherrywood malt now that I've used it in several brews in a row. (In fact, it was Tumbler that started me on my own smoked malt brews over the past month.)

I made an Amber with Special Roast and cherrywood (16oz Special, 8oz cherrywood, 2oz choc, plus base malt and a bit of crystal) -- and it's got a wicked good smoked bread taste (IMHO). The smoked malt is definitely up front, though, but not (IMHO) overpowering. But one person who tried it said all she could taste was smoked malt -- no bready taste or hops.

The cherrywood is definitely potent stuff -- but I suspect once you've calibrated your palette to detect it, you can get away with just a bit to give the beer complexity while not overpowering the other malts. The chloride level in the water is also another thing I probably need to zero in on. I tend to favor malty over hoppy -- or hoppy beers with a strong malt presence -- so I tend to go a bit heavy on the chloride (i.e. I nearly always aim for 85-100ppm Cl for a normal mash -- and then maybe 80-130ppm of SO4 depending on the hop level I'm looking for). I suspect if I scaled the CaCl2 back a bit, S04 up a bit, the smoked malt might background even more.

BTW -- I definitely disagree with ghpeel's recommendation to not use cherrywood. To me, the smoked taste in Tumbler is identical to cherrywood. I agree, however, with his recommendation to avoid peat smoked malt. Definitely not a peaty flavor (and while I personally love the peated malt taste, several others do not like peat at all. It's a tough sell, I've discovered.)

 

[Paulgs3]

If I'd make Emma's again with the smoked malt, I'd probably drop the cherrywood down a bit -- maybe 2.0-2.5oz instead of 4oz (essentially using the 1% SN is using, I guess).

The smoked malt in Tumbler (to my palette, at least) is in the background -- but detectable. It seems to me that the trick with cloning this is dialing in the smoked malt. My version of Tumbler (i.e., Emma's Brown) has the smoked malt just slightly more forward than Tumbler. It's definitely in the ballpark, though -- and it might be that my palette is sensitive to the cherrywood malt now that I've used it in several brews in a row. (In fact, it was Tumbler that started me on my own smoked malt brews over the past month.)

I made an Amber with Special Roast and cherrywood (16oz Special, 8oz cherrywood, 2oz choc, plus base malt and a bit of crystal) -- and it's got a wicked good smoked bread taste (IMHO). The smoked malt is definitely up front, though, but not (IMHO) overpowering. But one person who tried it said all she could taste was smoked malt -- no bready taste or hops.

The cherrywood is definitely potent stuff -- but I suspect once you've calibrated your palette to detect it, you can get away with just a bit to give the beer complexity while not overpowering the other malts. The chloride level in the water is also another thing I probably need to zero in on. I tend to favor malty over hoppy -- or hoppy beers with a strong malt presence -- so I tend to go a bit heavy on the chloride (i.e. I nearly always aim for 85-100ppm Cl for a normal mash -- and then maybe 80-130ppm of SO4 depending on the hop level I'm looking for). I suspect if I scaled the CaCl2 back a bit, S04 up a bit, the smoked malt might background even more.

BTW -- I definitely disagree with ghpeel's recommendation to not use cherrywood. To me, the smoked taste in Tumbler is identical to cherrywood. I agree, however, with his recommendation to avoid peat smoked malt. Definitely not a peaty flavor (and while I personally love the peated malt taste, several others do not like peat at all. It's a tough sell, I've discovered.)

What yeast did you go with? I was gonna pick up some 1275, but I was wondering if something cleaner like a 1056 would be better.

 

[bobbytuck]

Two packs Safale-05. 62F for two weeks, ramp to 70F for one week. My standard ferm profile for 99% of all my beers.

Unless I'm making a Belgian or a hefe, I avoid all liquid yeasts. (Not worth the effort, never seem as reliable as Safale-05 -- pretty much the only yeast I use.)

 

[Paulgs3]

Two packs Safale-05. 62F for two weeks, ramp to 70F for one week. My standard ferm profile for 99% of all my beers.

Unless I'm making a Belgian or a hefe, I avoid all liquid yeasts. (Not worth the effort, never seem as reliable as Safale-05 -- pretty much the only yeast I use.)

That is actually perfect, thank you!

 

[Coldies]

Can you post your recipe?

A little late sorry about that.

8.00 lb Pale Malt (2 Row)
1.00 lb Caramel/Crystal Malt - 40L
0.50 lb Chocolate Malt
0.25 lb pale chocolate malt
0.75 lb Smoked Malt

WLP001 or Wyeast1056

Sorry I dont have the hops scheduling in front of me.

 

[Paulgs3]

A little late sorry about that.

8.00 lb Pale Malt (2 Row)
1.00 lb Caramel/Crystal Malt - 40L
0.50 lb Chocolate Malt
0.25 lb pale chocolate malt
0.75 lb Smoked Malt

WLP001 or Wyeast1056

Sorry I dont have the hops scheduling in front of me.

Thats actually pretty close to Emma's: http://www.northernbrewer.com/documentation/allgrain/AG-EmmasAle.pdf NB's crystal is a tad...well a lot darker (180-250 L) I need to convert that to SRM, Beersmith is throwing off my color.

I'm doing a 10g batch, using 4oz Cheerrywood is giving me 1.33%.... Which is close to SN's 1%... I'm excited about it, and you can't beat the price!!

 

[Mexicanconnection2002]

Just tried mine side by side with a Tumbler tonight. Color was pretty spon on and tasted very close. Mine had a little more chocolate it seemed. Mine was lacking a little carbonation since only carbing for about 6 days. Very happy with this one.

 

[Coldies]

Thats actually pretty close to Emma's: http://www.northernbrewer.com/documentation/allgrain/AG-EmmasAle.pdf NB's crystal is a tad...well a lot darker (180-250 L) I need to convert that to SRM, Beersmith is throwing off my color.

I'm doing a 10g batch, using 4oz Cheerrywood is giving me 1.33%.... Which is close to SN's 1%... I'm excited about it, and you can't beat the price!!

Yeah mine was not a direct clone but man did it turn out awesome. Beautiful head that has nice lacing. Def a house staple. If I wanted to try and get it closer to a clone it I would go with .5 lb of smoked malt and knock the chocolate down to .25 lbs to be even with the pale chocolate. I feel that would get you really close. But as they say "Why fix something that isn't broken"

Great thread that turned out a fantastic beer!!!

 

[Paulgs3]

Brewed Emma's today with the smoked malt. I used only 3.5oz for a 10 gal batch which made it exactly 1%.

Tasted like a beer-cappuccino, I could barely taste the smoke. I'm assuming it will come out after fermentation. I'm excited!!!!

 

[Paulgs3]

Just another update, krausen has almost completely fallen, I was impatient but I took a sample anyway knowing its not ready yet... but holy jebus is it god.


I can taste the chocolate and the smoke and neither is anywhere near overpowering. 1% of the cherrywood is where its at. I did make one deviation, I had 0.5oz of glacier left since I did a double batch, I tossed that in at flame out. I can tell already even though its not carbed the bitterness is going to be spot on.

Good call with the Emmas!

 

[ghpeel]

I definitely disagree with ghpeel's recommendation to not use cherrywood. To me, the smoked taste in Tumbler is identical to cherrywood.

Yeah I kinda misspoke. I just meant if you are going to follow a recipe that calls for, say, 1 pound of Weyerman Smoked Malt, then do NOT substitute 1 pound of cherrywood or peated malt if you can't get Weyerman's. You'll need much less of those malts to acheive the same smokiness of 1 pound of the Weyerman stuff, that's what I was trying to say.

I keep hearing good things about the cherrywood (the peated not so much) so I might try it next time instead of the Weyerman.

I love this beer!! I wish I had one on tap now!

 

[Paulgs3]

I went ahead and kegged one carboy, I'm going to let the other age another week. Forced carbed it and drinking one now.....

It is incredible beer! The chocolate and smoke is dead on, the bitterness is a tad off, if anything its not bitter enough. I should have used all the bittering hops even though Emma's didn't call for it.

I'd say up the IBUs a tad, my 10 gal Emma's gave me 25.6 IBU, I'd try to bring it up over 30. But with the 1% on the cherrywood and Emma's gains and we have a tumbler!

EDIT: The head on this is incredible, even the lacing is wonderful! Its almost stout head like!!

 

[Calder]

I keep hearing good things about the cherrywood (the peated not so much) so I might try it next time instead of the Weyerman.

All smoked malts are not created equally!

I too had heard peated smoked malt was 'not so good'. I tried 3 lbs of the weyermann in a Porter ... pretty good. Then I tried the same of the cherrywood in a similar recipe, and it was much more flavorful (lot stronger smoke too). Then I stumbled across a clone for Stone smoked Porter that called for 4 ozs of peated smoke; ........ It tasted great, and I am sold on the peated smoke, you just have to realize that you don't need much.

0.25 lbs peated = about 3 lbs of Weyermann or Cherrywood. A huge difference in what is required to get a similar smoke effect. Which smoked malt is used in Tumbler at 1% level? I suspect it is asking for peated malt. For a 1.060 beer, about 1.5 ozs is equal to 1%. If you use anything else, you probably need about 12 ozs.

 

[Paulgs3]

I used the cherrywood at 1% (3.5oz in 10g batch) using Emma's recipe (AHS).

My initial intention was to round it up to 4oz (1.3333333%), and after tasting what I have now that is only a month old, the 4 oz would be fine. This stuff is drinkable right out of the carboy, no aging required.

 

[Seanwallner]

Hey guys. Gonna try this recipe this weekend. Question about the chocalte malts and smoked malt. Do you typically mash these with pale or do you handle them differently? The reason I ask is because I brewed a german hef with carraffa 3 and it has a bitter finish that grows the longer it sits and warms. I think its due to the carraffa being too high. So now Im paranoid about the roasted stuff. Thanks for your input. This will be the first brew on the new 10 gallon set up. Cheers