Clogging plate chiller question

[Brewn4life]

I got me a DudaDiesel plate chiller and it clogs very easy. I use a filter and it still clogs. Yesterday we brewed an IPA and I used a hops spider which worked good at keeping my whole leaf hops from clogging up my uptake tube, but let all the pellet hops go into the wort. Ok so I ran my wort through my hops back/filter going into the plate chiller. Clogged up my plate chiller right off the bat. I just turn on the pump and let it rip. Should I be controlling the flow rate of the wort going into the chiller? I have brewed 5 batches using this plate chiller and not one has successfully been chilled with the chiller. Thank god I got a old copper coil chiller..chillin..haha.
Can some one please explain to me what kind of filtration I got to use to keep this thing from clogging. What kind of filtration system do professional breweries use?

 

[microbusbrewery]

I'm surprised you had issues when using your hop back. Whenever I use mine the whole hops in the hop back do a great job of filtering out pellet hops from the boil. I have the duda 40 plate chiller. I use the hop/trub filter from http://www.brewershardware.com/ with mine. I clogged the hop/trub filter once, but never the plate chiller. I know some people have had problems using the hop/trub filter, but it's worked great for me and I'm always surprised by the amount of gunk it collects (and prevents from entering my plate chiller).

If you're not already doing it, stir a whirlpool at the end of the boil and let is settle out for about 15 minutes. Make sure your pickup tube is not pulling from the middle of your BK (where all the hop debris and hot break will collect). Use a ball valve to reduce the flow rate out of the pump (you don't want it running full blast).

 

[Bobby_M]

Bag all of your hops and you won't have the problem.

 

[day_trippr]

Bag all of your hops and you won't have the problem.

Agreed - nylon bags (paint strainers - I think 200 micron pore?) or similar for pellets do a great job of keeping all the fragments in the bag and out of the chiller; regular muslin bags have always worked fine for me with whole cones.

I also found it surprising that a hop-back didn't stem the pellet debris...

Cheers!

 

[Brewn4life]

I bought the nylon from the craft store. It held in the leaf hops but was to coarse for the pellet hops. I did not put hops in the hop back, I used it for a filter but apparently it didn't filter as good as I wanted it to. I would have no problems putting hops in it except on beers I don't want a lot of hop profile like my BMC clone it would be problematic. I ultimately want to be able to stop as much of the trub from leaving the boil kettle. The whirl pool I got to get down and figure out my pickup tub placement.
Thanks for the replies,

 

[Bobby_M]

Hop backs only perform real filtering when they are full of leaf hops. It works the same way that the husks of your grist mesh together and create a filter that a bare false bottom doesn't do. I'm assuming the bottom of your hopback has similar hole sizes as a false bottom.

 

[jflongo]

Here is what I use in my Keggle. Plus I have the filtration stand under that, so mine does double filtration before it leaves the keggle. My Duda Diesel 20 plate has not clogged the two times I did it, and I did not bag the hops at all. I had a nice thick layer of hops on top of the false bottom, but the majority of the liquid drained.

http://www.norcalbrewingsolutions.c...y-kegs-taps-451178/&__utmv=-&__utmk=238573440

 

[Bobby_M]

Despite no problems in two batches, I would not recommend relying on a false bottom to filter pellet hops out of wort destined for a plate chiller. Do a simple test. Get yourself a paint strainer bag from Lowes and right when you'd normally start pumping through the plate chiller, pump it back up to the top of the kettle and put the discharge through the paint strainer. Recirculate for 2 minutes and note what's in the bag.

 

[microbusbrewery]

Hop backs only perform real filtering when they are full of leaf hops. It works the same way that the husks of your grist mesh together and create a filter that a bare false bottom doesn't do. I'm assuming the bottom of your hopback has similar hole sizes as a false bottom.

+1, all the hop backs I've seen won't really filter unless you fill them with whole hops.

 

[jflongo]

Despite no problems in two batches, I would not recommend relying on a false bottom to filter pellet hops out of wort destined for a plate chiller. Do a simple test. Get yourself a paint strainer bag from Lowes and right when you'd normally start pumping through the plate chiller, pump it back up to the top of the kettle and put the discharge through the paint strainer. Recirculate for 2 minutes and note what's in the bag.

If that comment is for me, in addition to the false bottom, I have a secondary stand filter underneath that, that is even more fine. So if anything makes it past the false bottom, the stand filters that even more. Currently I am gravity feeding, I haven't bought a pump yet. I also plan on adding a hop spider at some point, just for easier cleanup, not sure I actually need it.

 

[reefriot]

I use a 6" piece of braided stainless sheathing from a water line on my pick up tube and then a 5g paint strainer on my hop spider. I hook my pump up before my plate chiller and reduce flow via the ball valve on kettle. Never have had an issue with the chiller clogging. As soon as ive chilled wort into fermenter i rinse kettle and then fill with PBW and circulate it through pump and chiller till it runs clear.

 

[Bobby_M]

If that comment is for me, in addition to the false bottom, I have a secondary stand filter underneath that, that is even more fine. So if anything makes it past the false bottom, the stand filters that even more. Currently I am gravity feeding, I haven't bought a pump yet. I also plan on adding a hop spider at some point, just for easier cleanup, not sure I actually need it.

Just look at how fine pellet hop particulates are (in the 100-200 micron area) and how big the holes are in the false bottom and stand (3/32"). Eventually enough particles will bind together over the holes but how much green trub are you finding in the fermenter?

If you want to stick with this method, I highly recommend trying to mix whole hops into your hop bill and perform a boil kettle "vorlauf" before running into your plate chiller.

 

[jflongo]

Just look at how fine pellet hop particulates are (in the 100-200 micron area) and how big the holes are in the false bottom and stand (3/32"). Eventually enough particles will bind together over the holes but how much green trub are you finding in the fermenter?

If you want to stick with this method, I highly recommend trying to mix whole hops into your hop bill and perform a boil kettle "vorlauf" before running into your plate chiller.

The last time I brewed, it was a 11 gallon 40 IBU beer. It had a nice thick later of green trub on the false bottom. The filter stand underneath that, wasn't completely covered, so the false bottom did a great job.

Now I have to be honest, I don't know about the green trub in the fermenter. I then dry hopped in primary, so hard to say

I'm just saying that my chiller did not even come close to clogging. I can't do a BK vorlauf, I gravity feed right now, a pump is on my wish list. I also plan on building a hop spider, for the next time I do a big IPA just to be safe

 

[Brewn4life]

The hop back I bought has a coarse filter and the I got a sleeve for it that is much finer. I see where I probably am messing up, is pumping my wort full blast with my chugger pump, not doing a good enough whirl pool, my pickup tube is facing the bottom of the kettle and it picks up not in the center but definitely in trub. I got some of those paint strainer bags, which worked good for the 6 gln pot but with the 25gln pot they're not deep enough. I'm thinking though maybe put one of those in my hop back and see if it won't clog up the hop back. When I had the 2micron screen in there it clogged real quick going into primary. I ended up going strait from kettle to primary no filtration. Not the first time..lol
I like the idea about pumping the wort through one of those paint strainer bags for two min. back into the kettle Before it even goes to chiller.

 

[ebstauffer]

Bag all of your hops and you won't have the problem.

+1.

I too have a DD plate chiller. If I'm brewing a low IBU beer I'll use 3" stainless tea balls -- I don't care for them for anything over .5oz of plugs. Otherwise I use paint strainer bags. After my initial clogging charlie foxtrot I've never had a problem.

 

[Brewn4life]

Question? If I use the paint bags, would there be a maximum number of bags you would want to add to the boil? The reason I ask is because I had 8 hop additions in 60 min boil. It was my IPA. Seems to me the best thing for me to do is figure out a filter setup in the boil kettle. I'm thinking about wrapping one of those hops paint bags around a wire fixture that would attach to the 1/2" pickup tube. My luck that damn thing would clog up as well.

 

[Brewn4life]

Also a false bottom in the boil kettle was mentioned. Is that some thing a lot of people do? I got a false bottom in my MT but not in my BK.

 

[jflongo]

Also a false bottom in the boil kettle was mentioned. Is that some thing a lot of people do? I got a false bottom in my MT but not in my BK.

A false bottom with a secondary filter stand under that in my BK, does a fantastic job. It's just a matter of money, whether you can afford to add all of that. Norcal also has different stages of stands you can add, pretty cool.

http://www.norcalbrewingsolutions.com/store/False_Bottom_Stands.html

 

[Brewn4life]

Thanks JFlongo, I definitely need to figure some thing out, I hate to use my small copper coil to cool down 15 gallons if wort! I think with all the advice given hear I should be able to put something together.

 

[crankyx]

So having a DD plate chiller and having just recently gone through my first completely plugged chiller (twice in one day, horribly long day) i'll tell you what I learned and what I do now.

I brewed a batch and placed the pellet hops directly into the boil (Don't ever do that with zero filtration) Once my chiller clogged it required some deep cleaning, forward and backward pumped through the chiller, near boiling PBW, near boiling water and eventually I baked it because after a few hours of cleaning (over a few days) there was still crap coming out.

Today I brewed 2 batches back to back; I used a hop spider and a pickup tube from Stainless brewing as well as a whirlpool fitting which all worked amazingly. Almost all of the hop material was in the spider, No clogs, no fuss, easier cleaning.

If you have not already, a post clogged chiller still will have lots of crap still in it, so clean the heck out of it.

Good luck and don't give up on the plate chiller

 

[Brewn4life]

Thanks Crankyx,
I was contemplating selling it and using a big emersion chiller. I figured I would try a few more things before I do that. What whirl pool attachment do you have?

 

[kombat]

I use a 300 micron cylindrical hop screen (from Chad at Arbor Fabricating) to contain my pellet hop additions, and I also have a Hop Stopper fitted to the outlet of my boil kettle. The combination prevents virtually all hop matter and break matter from making it out of the kettle.

Here's a photo of my hop screen in action:

The Hop Stopper is basically an elbow pickup tube sized to reach the very center of your kettle, shrouded in mesh to block hop and break matter.

It works great and produces very clear wort, but there's been a bit of a learning curve with it. The biggest problem I encountered is that when draining the kettle through the valve, once the screen begins to become exposed, you need to throttle way back on the valve and reduce the flow. This is because the screen captures so much hop and break matter that wort is unable to flow inside the screen (and thus, to the pickup tube) as fast as you're draining, and you can lose suction (which is a show-stopper, as I cannot get my pump reprimed once air has been sucked into the line).

To resolve this problem, I now drain my wort through the valve, through my plate chiller, and then run it back into the kettle instead of into my fermenter. That way the Hop Stopper is always completely immersed, and I can run at a higher flow rate. I simply monitor the thermometer on my kettle, and once the temperature is down to 65° F, I stop recirculating and drain the wort into my fermenter using a plain old autosiphon. That allows me to get every last drop of wort.

While this method keeps break and hop matter out of my plate chiller, it does mean that some of it makes it into the fermenter (through the autosiphon, which is immersed directly into the kettle), but that's fine - a little break material is good for the yeast, and the vast majority of it is still left behind in the kettle (or clumped onto the Hop Stopper).

It is a bit of a pain to clean, though.

 

[AndMan3030]

I love my 40-plate chiller. I clogged it right away, so I immediately consulted HBT for guidance. I built a Hop Spider using a SS sink flange, some long bolts, and a few nuts. Great DIY and super cheap (about 20 bucks). I attach 5 gallon paint strainer bags from the spider and can make as many additions as I want without using several bags. Some claim a slight loss in hop utilization, but I have not noticed. I haven't had any clogging issues with my plate chiller since I built it. The bags are super cheap so I just use a new one each brew, nothing to clean. With good flow the plate chiller works so fast, I never miss my old 25' copper immersion chiller!

Don't give up!

:rockin:

 

[Brewn4life]

Kombat that is awesome! I'm buying one of those as soon as I got a couple extra bucks. Thanks! I was thinking of how I would attach a screen to my pickup tub in my boil kettle as well.

3030 I have a hops spider as well. I need to get those 5 gallon bags and see if they will work with my setup. I'm thinking about zip tying one of my 1gallon paint bags to the inside of my hop back to see if that would catch some of the hot brake.

 

[AndMan3030]

The 5 gallon paint bag attached to the hop spider is the same concept as using bags for each addition except you don't have to use several bags or retrieve one main bag to make additions. it works really well and was one of the best DIY's I ever added to my homebrew setup. Especially since I added it because I had just bought a second pump and a 40-plate chiller and was crushed when it didn't "Plug 'n' play" the way I thought it would. Serious dough spent and suddenly dealing with clogging! I should have known you can't just run pellets through a plate chiller, but did not. This DIY discovery saved my day and was super cheap. I would really like a huge stainless rig from SS brewing (like kombat has but bigger), but for now this works.

Brewn4life- those paint bags are great. if you can employ one wherever you want to catch a lot of crap they work like a charm.

Do people with counter-flow chillers have this same clogging issue? I would really like to hear people weigh in on counter-flow V.S. plate chiller. If there is a significant benefit when comes to clogging I would like to know. I feel like the wort running through a counter-flow chiller would not be as restricted as wort running through plates.

Anyone?

Thanks (this resource rocks!)

 

[crankyx]

Thanks Crankyx,
I was contemplating selling it and using a big emersion chiller. I figured I would try a few more things before I do that. What whirl pool attachment do you have?

Don't sell it! I have a B3-36A 30 (The bigger one) and that bad clog day aside now that I've got it figured out I will always use a plate chiller. The ability to go from boiling to pitching temp as fast as I can pump it is awesome.

I have the whirlpool fitting from morebeer. here is the setup:
The picktube and giant hop spider came from stainless brewing

 

[ddrrseio]

i have been using a 15gal kettle, stainlessbrewing.com hop spider (like the one above) and duda diesel 20 plate long chiller to do batches. to generate a siphon, i've filled my plate chiller and hoses with starsan, which would then empty prior to the wort. i chill the wort in one pass with no whirlpool, since i have no pump.

i would like to do hoppier beers and whirlpool without the spider. would this be possible with a plate chiller and pump? my goal is to whirlpool until the trub cone formed and then continue whirlpooling through the plate chiller to sanitize it.

has anyone done this before or does anyone have any reaction?

the arrow is a chugger 1/25HP pump with a bleeder valve on a t-pipe and a flow valve at the exit. the plate chiller will have two three-way valves with a bridge.

 

[FredTheNuke]

I have. 30 plate DudeDiesel. The only time I have ever clogged it was when I got over zealous at stirring while mashing in and must have disturbed the MLT false bottom. I was chasing crushed grain husks the rest of the day. Clogged my RIMS tube, sparge fittings and the plate chiller. Took a LoT of flushing to clear the crap out of it. PBW helped some but for husks it has limitations.

 

[ddrrseio]

could you tell me more about your system?

i am most interested in whirlpooling/chilling without clogging my chiller. i didn't indicate in that diagram, but i am going to be using camlocks, so the plate chiller won't be in the pathway during mashing.

thanks!

 

[jaba]

The easiest way to fix any problems is to just give your kettle more time to settle. Your flame-out/knockout routine should be something like this: At flameout (NOT 15mins, boiling whirlfloc denatures it), add your whirlfloc (not necessary, but defintely recommended and will help a lot with clarity). Let the kettle rest for about 5 minutes. After 5 minutes, whirlpool (stir) with a big spoon/paddle for about another 5 minutes. The goal is to get the outer edges of the wort moving at a pretty fast pace. After whirlpool, let the kettle rest for 10 to 20 minutes to settle, longer for brews with lots of hops. After that rest, start your transfer. A diptube that angles back into the edge of the kettle will also help prevent taking too much hop/trub in.