I'd say so...my jet bottle washer will not get all of the scale out of the inside of the bottles even if I rinse them twice.
Cleaning 120 bottles in a tub...
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I'd say so...my jet bottle washer will not get all of the scale out of the inside of the bottles even if I rinse them twice.
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f11/pbw-same-oxyclean-86475/
So I just read this thread and found an answer to my frustration. My .02 is that I have always used PBW and never had the FRUSTRATION of rinsing multiple times and the bottles were always crystal clear (that satiated my OCD and made cleaning enjoyable). I will use OXI for grimy bottles followed by PBW to ease my rinse but will use PBW on the norm.
To all who use OXI this is no offense...just my opinion. WOULD RATHER BE BREWING THAN RINSING.
***ps...I'm still fighting my OCD with wanting to sanitize after cleaning AND before bottling AND leaving sanitization until bottling day. (I know REVVY does both so if you see this REVVY let me know)***
So I just read this thread and found an answer to my frustration. My .02 is that I have always used PBW and never had the FRUSTRATION of rinsing multiple times and the bottles were always crystal clear (that satiated my OCD and made cleaning enjoyable). I will use OXI for grimy bottles followed by PBW to ease my rinse but will use PBW on the norm.
To all who use OXI this is no offense...just my opinion. WOULD RATHER BE BREWING THAN RINSING.
***ps...I'm still fighting my OCD with wanting to sanitize after cleaning AND before bottling AND leaving sanitization until bottling day. (I know REVVY does both so if you see this REVVY let me know)***
ReeseAllen
Well-Known Member
I use a rubbermaid bin for bottle cleaning. I pack it as full as possible with upright bottles. I get a scoop of oxyclean and drop a tiny bit into the mouth of each bottle, then I sprinkle another half scoop over all of them. I then fill each bottle with hot water (from a hose connected to my tap) and finally fill the whole bin. Takes about 10 minutes to set up. I soak this for 24 hours and then the next day I dump out and rinse each bottle and put them into clean bins for storage.
The benefit to using a bin is that you can keep the tub free and let the bottles soak for days if you want.
The benefit to using a bin is that you can keep the tub free and let the bottles soak for days if you want.
remilard
Well-Known Member
You need some sort of sequestering agent. PBW contains one, if you use Oxiclean and then star san to remove the scale, you are using star san as the sequestering agent.
To get rid of the "scale," the residue from oxyclean, you use a weak acid solution, Starsan works great, but you can also use a dillution of either vinegar or lemon juice in water.
When I am processing my bottles I fill one sink with whatever weak acid I use, soak my bottles inside and out with them for a couple minutes and re-rinse.
If you use starsan in this way, it DOESN'T COUNT as a sanitization step....at least I don't think of it that way, I still sanitize them on bottling day. It's only a step to remove the scale. And if I were using lemon juice it wouldn't sanitize at all.
You should never think of sanitizing ahead. You should really always do it at the point of use, be it bottling or brew day.
No rinse/wet contact sanitizer are double edged swords. Literally. They kill two ways. They kill everything on the object prior to sanitizing, and then as long as they are still wet they form a sanitizer barrier that kills everything that comes into contact with object.
If you let the sanitizer dry any micro organism that comes in contact with the sanitized object, rather than being killed by it, makes the object no longer sanitzed.
I delable my bottles and hit them with starsan after I do so, But on bottling day I still sanitize them again. There's no such thing as too much sanitization.
Listen, I can do my entire bottling process including sanitizing my bottles in under an hour. So do a lot of folks.
I outline my process in this thread, along with other people, apply a few tricks and tips, and you'll have no problem santizing and doing everything else on bottling day.
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f35/revvys-tips-bottler-first-time-otherwise-94812/
When I am processing my bottles I fill one sink with whatever weak acid I use, soak my bottles inside and out with them for a couple minutes and re-rinse.
If you use starsan in this way, it DOESN'T COUNT as a sanitization step....at least I don't think of it that way, I still sanitize them on bottling day. It's only a step to remove the scale. And if I were using lemon juice it wouldn't sanitize at all.
You should never think of sanitizing ahead. You should really always do it at the point of use, be it bottling or brew day.
No rinse/wet contact sanitizer are double edged swords. Literally. They kill two ways. They kill everything on the object prior to sanitizing, and then as long as they are still wet they form a sanitizer barrier that kills everything that comes into contact with object.
If you let the sanitizer dry any micro organism that comes in contact with the sanitized object, rather than being killed by it, makes the object no longer sanitzed.
I delable my bottles and hit them with starsan after I do so, But on bottling day I still sanitize them again. There's no such thing as too much sanitization.
Listen, I can do my entire bottling process including sanitizing my bottles in under an hour. So do a lot of folks.
I outline my process in this thread, along with other people, apply a few tricks and tips, and you'll have no problem santizing and doing everything else on bottling day.
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f35/revvys-tips-bottler-first-time-otherwise-94812/
wilserbrewer
BIAB Expert Tailor
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remilard
Well-Known Member
http://www.essind.com/Cleaners/GC-chemistry.htm
Good overview of chelating agents, surfactants and why you want to use a cleaner (read PBW) that has them. Note that sequestering ions during cleaning is better than removing them afterwards.
I would use unscented automatic dishwasher detergent if I didn't want to use PBW for some reason as it at least has chelating agents. PBW has the advantage of being designed for brewery applications (eg, preventing beer stone).
Good overview of chelating agents, surfactants and why you want to use a cleaner (read PBW) that has them. Note that sequestering ions during cleaning is better than removing them afterwards.
I would use unscented automatic dishwasher detergent if I didn't want to use PBW for some reason as it at least has chelating agents. PBW has the advantage of being designed for brewery applications (eg, preventing beer stone).
GreenMonti
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Why is this "scale" not an issue for kegs or fermentation items? Or have I missed the step where everyone does a rinse with vinegar.
I never had an issue with this scale when I used PBW...but on a side note I may start rinsing with vinegar even after cleaning with PBW (1 reason):
1) I want to make sure there is no cleaner on my bottles when I go to sanitize as this will make my sanitizer less effective sooner (any cleaner left on the bottles will use up the star san)
**Just my insight on this**
Just got done 1) washing with oxyclean 2) sitting bottles in vinegar solution 2-3 minutes 3) rinsing again...they are drying now and will get back here after.
