Cleaner than 71B?

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LBussy

LBussy

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Hi all.

I have a very nice varietal honey (raspberry blossom) and I am planning a semi-sweet show mead. I have good luck in wines and some meads with 71B, but I'm wondering if there's not a better one for this? I like the "softness" of the 71B for things like a Pinot Grigio, but I am concerned that some of the amyl acetate characteristics might overpower this delicate varietal honey.

I was considering maybe R2? It has a similar profile with low SO2 and H2S evolution, and with a TOSNA approach, it should be pretty clean and help showcase the honey. It's got a bit higher alcohol tolerance so I would need to bump up the honey a bit.

What do you think?

I'm strong on beer yeasts but wine and mead yeasts are a bit of a black magic area for me. :)

ETA: Also considering D47 and D254. So many choices!
 
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I cant speak to R2 or D254

I have used D47 and Cote Des Blanc for traditionals with wildflower honey but nothing as delicate as raspberry blossom. But only have had real good results on the very low end of the temperature range (Less than 60 Deg F) Both keep working when using a TOSNA 3.0 but slow down a good bit. They do produce some nice flavors while allowing the honey to come through as well.
 
Yeah, I'm not sure "clean" is the right term for what I need. What I need is to enhance and showcase the varietal characteristics. The D47 makes a nice Pinot Grigio that my wife prefers to the same grape with 71B, but that 71B roundness is more what I want (I think?)

I had not considered the DV10, hm, so many choices.
 
Have you considered wyeast 1388 Belgian strong ale yeast smack pack, like @loveofrose uses in his BOMM meads? Quick, clean ferments with no off flavors. The downside is they cost 6-8$/ea. I solve that by making a 2000ml starter & make 3-5 gallons @ a time, getting the most I can out of 1 pack. Just another one to consider.😉
Happy meading 😎
 
When you spend close to $200 on honey, a smack-pack is not a limiting item. :)

No, I'd not considered that yeast. Maybe it's a mental thing but I can't get my brain there. Maybe I need to do some one-gallon clover meads with that to see what I think of it.
 
LBussy said:
Yeah, I'm not sure "clean" is the right term for what I need. What I need is to enhance and showcase the varietal characteristics. The D47 makes a nice Pinot Grigio that my wife prefers to the same grape with 71B, but that 71B roundness is more what I want (I think?)

I had not considered the DV10, hm, so many choices.
Click to expand...

Maybe you've already done this, but -
Yeast pairing 101 - taste your honey and decide what characteristics you want to showcase. Fruity, citrus, floral, earthy, whatever. Write it down. Better still, get a 2nd (or more) opinion. Then go to Scott Labs' Yeast Handbook and search for those terms.

https://scottlab.com/content/files/Documents/Handbooks/WinemakingHandbook2020.pdf

One reason Scott Labs yeasts are so popular is that they tell us more about their stuff than just about anybody else.
 
I was searching desperately for that information, thank you! I found bits and pieces, but not the whole thing.
 
LHBS is out of the 1388. I may wait till they have it and do a gallon of whatever they have in the food aisle of the grocery store. Lots of beekeepers around here, it's all "wildflower" of course. Should be good enough to test it. I'm familiar with that yeast from my beers at least.

I think I'm on page 9 of the BOMM thread. I prefer Fermaid O so I am sifting for any notes about using that.

I'm surprised at the premise that wine yeasts cannot create a plateable drink after ~3 months. I do lots of wines that are "ok" after a month, and three-6 months is perfect. Maybe it's the yeast feeding that really makes the difference? That and throwing away any EC-1118 that ever darkens my doorstep :)

I started the thread asking for people to help me narrow down my choices and in true HBT fashion, I have more. :p
 
LBussy said:
LHBS is out of the 1388. I may wait till they have it and do a gallon of whatever they have in the food aisle of the grocery store. Lots of beekeepers around here, it's all "wildflower" of course. Should be good enough to test it. I'm familiar with that yeast from my beers at least.

I think I'm on page 9 of the BOMM thread. I prefer Fermaid O so I am sifting for any notes about using that.

I'm surprised at the premise that wine yeasts cannot create a plateable drink after ~3 months. I do lots of wines that are "ok" after a month, and three-6 months is perfect. Maybe it's the yeast feeding that really makes the difference? That and throwing away any EC-1118 that ever darkens my doorstep :)

I started the thread asking for people to help me narrow down my choices and in true HBT fashion, I have more. :p
Click to expand...
The BOMM thread has a TON of info on it. I read every post & learned so much about the process & the problems people had & how they fixed them. It was a long read though.🤓🤪 But, very informative.
I think there are wine yeasts that can produce a drinkable product in less than 3 months, but, some of us are more impatient than others. :mischievous: 😆
For ME, in my limited experience, (I started making mead in July 2020), Fermaid O is what I use & the Fermaid K is pretty much for the BOMM recipes. I still have a bunch of 71B to use up, & eventually, I will probably dip into others, but, I have pretty much gone to BOMM protocols & 1388 on most of my meads.
 
The softness that you get from 71B is probably due to its ability to metabolize malic acid into ethanol, thereby reducing acid. I will use it for high acid ciders (TA above 0.6 %). High ester yeasts like K1V-1116 are fine for fruit bomb melomels, but not for a traditional with delecate honey. My next trad will be with local wildflower honey, and I'm gonna try DV10 for its "floral" contribution.

Temperature affects yeast too, and it's generally recommended to ferment in the lower 25% of your yeast's range.

One more thing... my secret weapons...
Booster Blanc | MoreWine
Opti-White | MoreWine
 
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The more I think about this, the more I think I should look for the cleanest ferment possible for this honey. If you've never had raspberry blossom honey - it's wonderful. I mean it's got a fantastic nose. To use any yeast that imparts its own character would be tragic I think.

🤔

I believe I am going to get some DV10 and any random varietal around here and see how it goes. I can compare the results to the original and see if the original characteristics come through. While I am at it I may as well try a true BOMM process. I do find some advantages to Fermaid-O, so maybe that means a four-way test with the same honey:
  1. BOMM with D10
  2. BOMM with 1388
  3. BOMM with D10 and Fermaid O
  4. BOMM with 1388 and Fermaid O
I realize any changes are "not BOMM", and believe me I've read the JAOM thread enough to hear that phrase in my sleep. What I mean by BOMM is the pH control mostly. All THAT said, I just stumbled upon this article which seems to have done what I am considering (with the Fermaid-O.) Not sure who wrote that article since article author names are not linked to forum names.

Man, I love this subject! So many cool things to try!

I need to find a 1-gallon fermenter into which I can put my Tilt of course. It's gotten to where I can't live without those things.
 
The Tilt will fit in a standard gallon jug, but I'm not a fan of mine. The foam throws it off. I had hoped to use it to tell me sugar break points for nutrient additions, but the damn thing lies. It said my SG went UP the first day.
 
I find EC-1118 very clean. I am going back to it for my next traditional.

I am curious about the results of your experiment.

You might see if squatchy on the Got Mead site has any advice.
 
Maylar said:
The Tilt will fit in a standard gallon jug, but I'm not a fan of mine. The foam throws it off.
Click to expand...
It does, a little. The Tilt Pro is much better in that respect as it's a lot heavier. NWIH it fits in a gallon jug though :)
Maylar said:
I had hoped to use it to tell me sugar break points for nutrient additions, but the damn thing lies. It said my SG went UP the first day.
Click to expand...
I noticed that as well. I think it has something to do with stratification. No matter though, after 12 hours it drops steadily as you'd expect.
videojunkie1208 said:
You might see if squatchy on the Got Mead site has any advice.
Click to expand...
I'm a member there, I guess I just always forget to go look over there. :)
 

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Thanks, Dan. I have a few - I think I also have a Fermonster 1g up on the shelf somewhere. That will help with the Tilt part, hell, I can put a Pro in there with that opening.

I just ordered some 1388, and I'll get some when the LHBS opens just to keep my karma straight.
 
I have three jars of omega lutra, harvested from a small beer, in my fridge. I already bought the honey, all I got to do is bottle my jaom that's blocking the fermenter and then I will try one teaspoon of lutra slurry in one gallon of mead with the proper nutrient addition.
 
LBussy said:
I can't even wrap my mind around a BOMM ... let alone a Kviek in a mead! You guys gotta to slow with me. :)
Click to expand...
It's easy, just forget what you know about pitching rates and stick to the newest tosna fermaid o protocol for the most nutrient demanding yeast you can select there... At least that's the theory :D
 

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