Citra / Mosaic / Columbus APA

[ruascott]

Please critique my recipe. I've used Citra several times, but never Mosaic or Columbus. Looking for something very hop-forward, but don't want to get much above 6% ABV.

Here's what I have so far.

10.5# 2-Row
1.25# Vienna
0.5# Crystal 40L

Mash @ 152

0.5oz Magnum 60 Min
0.5oz ea (1.5oz total) Citra/Mosaic/Columbus 10min
1.0oz ea (3.0oz total) Citra/Mosaic/Columbus Flameout/Hopstand

1oz each (3.0oz total) Citra/Mosaic/Columbus dryhop


Yeast: WY1968


Please let me know if you'd change up the hop schedule. Not familiar with these hops but I've got 1lb of each on hand, and have heard they would work nicely with each other.

 

[drewmarkwith]

Looks great that is a really nice hop combo. I have been using flaked oats lately (10-15 % of grain bill) and loving the results. You could add some flaked oats and it would be better in my opinion. Good luck

 

[303Dan]

Just did an IPA that did well in a competition that used Columbus and Mosaic along with Nelson Sauvin and Simcoe. I really like Columbus as a bittering hop and it worked well in small quantities in the dry hop too. I like the combo you're using here, let us know how it turns out!

 

[ruascott]

Looks great that is a really nice hop combo. I have been using flaked oats lately (10-15 % of grain bill) and loving the results. You could add some flaked oats and it would be better in my opinion. Good luck

Interesting regarding the oats. What would you sub that for?

 

[olotti]

Interesting regarding the oats. What would you sub that for?

I know not my question but I think you can just add it without taking anything else out unless it may bump your og up a touch so you could decrease some Vienna and throw in a 1/2lb of oats. What's your ibu on this?

 

[m00ps]

oats and flaked wheat are great in IPAs to help out with the body. But then again, you arent using any sugars to dry it out so it may not really help with this recipe youve got. FWIW, I use a bunch of wheat in most of my IPAs and have had good results adding some oats too

 

[drewmarkwith]

Interesting regarding the oats. What would you sub that for?

I would drop the crystal entirely and add 10% oats. You could increase the Vienna some too if you want the color slightly higher. My first few BIAB IPA's I used flaked wheat and golden naked oats for color but am finding the combo of flaked oats and light Munich to be much better.

But either way that is a winning hop combo so stick with that

 

[KyleWolf]

Personally, I think it looks really tasty. I love Columbus APAs and IPAs. My only critique is, what hops are you wanting to "showcase" in this beer? I only ask because from my personal experience, most hops (simcoe being an exception) get overshadowed when gram for gram with Columbus. If you want the Citra and Mosaic to stand out a little more, I would decrease the Columbus a bit. That being said, if you want that dank to be the more dominating flavor/aroma (which I personally really enjoy) then I think you have yourself a very nice beer there.

 

[ruascott]

I know not my question but I think you can just add it without taking anything else out unless it may bump your og up a touch so you could decrease some Vienna and throw in a 1/2lb of oats. What's your ibu on this?

As set right now, I'm at

48 IBU.
1.056 OG
1.013 FG
5.62% ABV

 

[ruascott]

Personally, I think it looks really tasty. I love Columbus APAs and IPAs. My only critique is, what hops are you wanting to "showcase" in this beer? I only ask because from my personal experience, most hops (simcoe being an exception) get overshadowed when gram for gram with Columbus. If you want the Citra and Mosaic to stand out a little more, I would decrease the Columbus a bit. That being said, if you want that dank to be the more dominating flavor/aroma (which I personally really enjoy) then I think you have yourself a very nice beer there.

Not really looking to showcase any of them. Just looking for something with some complexity of hop flavor. I'm doing a Mosaic/Golden Promise SMASH also this week to showcase Mosaic, and I've done several Citra single-hopped beers.

That said, I don't want to totally over-power the Citra/Mosaic here....so maybe I'll cut the Columbus a bit. Would you cut it during the flavor/hopstand? Or the dry hop?

 

[k1ngl1ves]

Looks good, except ditch the unneeded crystal.

 

[divrguy]

Looks good, except ditch the unneeded crystal.

Why ditch it? It's a pale ale. It will add to the beer.

 

[ruascott]

Looks good, except ditch the unneeded crystal.

I've been wondering that too. I've read a lot of rather negative comments regarding using crystal in very hoppy pales.

Should I just up the Vienna %? Or maybe go with Munich instead to get a bit of color/body.

I made a IIPA that was almost all 2-Row, with less than 2% each of Crystal 20 and Munich. It was good and really showcased the hops, but it was a bit too boring. In a lower gravity beer, I think it would be way too thin/watery.

 

[ruascott]

I would drop the crystal entirely and add 10% oats. You could increase the Vienna some too if you want the color slightly higher. My first few BIAB IPA's I used flaked wheat and golden naked oats for color but am finding the combo of flaked oats and light Munich to be much better.

But either way that is a winning hop combo so stick with that

Ok, maybe I'll go this direction. Drop the crystal entirely and add some flaked oats.

Something like:

10.5# 2-Row
1# Munich L
1.25# Flaked Oats

OG: 1.058 Final Gravity: 1.013 ABV: 5.86% IBU: 47.35 SRM: 4.67


Or maybe just go straight MO pale. I've heard of good success with that.

 

[ruascott]

I'm just going to do this:

9# 2 Row
2# Vienna
1# Flaked Oats

OG: 1.055 Final Gravity: 1.012 ABV: 5.52% IBU: 48.59 SRM: 4.12

 

[KyleWolf]

Not really looking to showcase any of them. Just looking for something with some complexity of hop flavor. I'm doing a Mosaic/Golden Promise SMASH also this week to showcase Mosaic, and I've done several Citra single-hopped beers.

That said, I don't want to totally over-power the Citra/Mosaic here....so maybe I'll cut the Columbus a bit. Would you cut it during the flavor/hopstand? Or the dry hop?

Really, I would only decrease the Columbus by about 25% at flameout and dry hop, so instead of 1oz, I would do 0.75oz. But as I said before that is just personal experience. Regardless of what you do, that hop combination will be tasty.

 

[radwizard]

You don't have to ditch the Crystal. I use it in moderation. I've done, and still do Beers with crystal and without. Crystal Malts don't destroy hop character in beer. At least they don't in mine. I don't really get why people using higher percentages of crystal, just drop it completely as if it is harming there beer. It has pros and cons, just like any grains. There should be a reason for every ingredient in the beer, if there is - it should turn out well.

 

[Queequeg]

I made an IPA with this combo at a 2:1:1 ratio mosaic, Columbus and citra. Its a good combo. Fruity with just enough going on to not be 1 dimensional. Simcoe, mosaic ,cascade is also an excellent combo.

 

[ruascott]

Ok decided to add in just a bit of crystal.

9# 2 Row
2.5# Vienna
1# Flaked Oats
0.5# Crystal 10L

Going to cut the Columbus ~25% so it doesn't overpower the Citra/Mosaic

Everything else as originally posted. Will brew it up this week. I'll come back and post updates (I hate reading recipes that are never updated after completed)

 

[ruascott]

Have been drinking this for about a week now....it came out very tasty.

I think the grain bill is good for a hop forward borderline IPA/APA. I ended up using no Crystal.

The Columbus comes across quite pronounced, even at only about 75% to the Citra/Mosaic amounts. I think next time I'll minimize Columbus or even eliminate it all together. Or just do all Columbus. It just really overpowers everything else, particularly the Citra. I'd also move the 10m additions to 5m. And maybe even more to the flameout.

After a week or so in the keg, it dropped pretty clear. And is very tasty IPA/APA.

 

[phyllobeddo]

I remember looking at this thread a while back and I thought the hop combo looked really good. I came up with the following recipe from the ingredients I had on hand and brewed it on 2/21. I bottled it on 3/27 and it tastes amazing. Very citrusy with some dankness at the end. Carbonation is perfect, color is great, and it tastes great. This is the best IPA/APA I’ve brewed thus far. I’ve shared it with friends and reviews are great as well. Glad I clicked on this thread and thanks!

2.5 gallon batch

4lb 2 row
1.25 lb Vienna
8 oz flaked oats
4 oz Crystal 10L

Hop Schedule
.25 oz Magnum 60 min
.25 oz Citra, .25 oz Mosaic, .125 oz Columbus 10 min
.25 oz Citra, .25 oz Mosaic, .125 oz Columbus Flameout/Hopstand @ 175 30 minutes
.5 oz Citra, .5 oz Mosaic, .25 oz Columbus Dry Hop 5 days

S-04 harvested from a previous batch
Mashed @ 149 for 75 minutes
Fermented at 64 degrees
OG 1064 FG 1011

 

[ruascott]

I remember looking at this thread a while back and I thought the hop combo looked really good. I came up with the following recipe from the ingredients I had on hand and brewed it on 2/21. I bottled it on 3/27 and it tastes amazing. Very citrusy with some dankness at the end. Carbonation is perfect, color is great, and it tastes great. This is the best IPA/APA I’ve brewed thus far. I’ve shared it with friends and reviews are great as well. Glad I clicked on this thread and thanks!

2.5 gallon batch

4lb 2 row
1.25 lb Vienna
8 oz flaked oats
4 oz Crystal 10L

Hop Schedule
.25 oz Magnum 60 min
.25 oz Citra, .25 oz Mosaic, .125 oz Columbus 10 min
.25 oz Citra, .25 oz Mosaic, .125 oz Columbus Flameout/Hopstand @ 175 30 minutes
.5 oz Citra, .5 oz Mosaic, .25 oz Columbus Dry Hop 5 days

S-04 harvested from a previous batch
Mashed @ 149 for 75 minutes
Fermented at 64 degrees
OG 1064 FG 1011

Great, glad you enjoyed it! I am probably going to re-brew it soon. My first batch went very quick.

 

[Ruckusz28]

S-04 harvested from a previous batch
Mashed @ 149 for 75 minutes
Fermented at 64 degrees
OG 1064 FG 1011

How has US04 been to you when brewing hoppy beers? I started using it in my search for that NE HOP search due to it being dry and easy to measure out when scaling down.

My results with US04 have been hit or miss. Of my 5 or 6 experiments, only 2 have come out favorable when compared to using WY1318 or WLP007.

 

[phyllobeddo]

How has US04 been to you when brewing hoppy beers? I started using it in my search for that NE HOP search due to it being dry and easy to measure out when scaling down.

My results with US04 have been hit or miss. Of my 5 or 6 experiments, only 2 have come out favorable when compared to using WY1318 or WLP007.

This is only the second hoppy beer that I've used with S-04. The first one was the Zombie Dust Clone on HBT and it came out pretty good. Reviews from friends were good on it as well. This one turned out excellent to me. I've never used WY1318 or WLP007 so I cant help with any comparison there.

I've just recently got into brewing hoppy beer. As a matter of fact, I have two beers in the fermenter right now that I used Conan yeast on . Can't wait to try them. I've also just recently started getting serious with starters. And I've just recently starting using RO water and adding salts. So much has changed recently for me. I have five in the fermenter right now and am waiting to see how they all turn out. However, I would use S-04 again on a hoppy beer. No worries there.

 

[Ruckusz28]

Great! Let me know how it compares with conan

 

[phyllobeddo]

I brewed this again today. My last batch with Conan yeast finished high so I added some corn sugar to try and help out. I’m dumping the whole 1L starter in as well. It’s been on the stir plate for about 17 hours. I’m interested to find out how Conan does with this one. I used Conan with a Blonde and it turned out too fruity tasting to me. The first batch of this with S-04 was great. Going by Beersmith numbers, everything was almost spot on with this batch.

2.5 gallon batch

4 lb 2 row
1.25 lb Vienna
8 oz Flaked Oats
4 oz Crystal 10 L
2 oz Acid Malt
6 oz corn sugar to boil

Hop Schedule

60 min
7 g Magnum 21 IBU

10 min
7 g Citra 7.8 IBU
7 g Mosaic 8 IBU
4 g Columbus 5.1 IBU

Hop Stand (30 min)
7 g Citra 8.3 IBU
7 g Mosaic 8.5 IBU
4 g Columbus 5.4 IBU

Dry Hop (5 days)
Citra 14 g
Mosaic 14 g
Columbus 7 g

1L Conan starter
Mashed @ 149 for 75 minutes
Boiled for 75 minutes
OG 1074

 

[ruascott]

I brewed this again today. My last batch with Conan yeast finished high so I added some corn sugar to try and help out. I’m dumping the whole 1L starter in as well. It’s been on the stir plate for about 17 hours. I’m interested to find out how Conan does with this one. I used Conan with a Blonde and it turned out too fruity tasting to me. The first batch of this with S-04 was great. Going by Beersmith numbers, everything was almost spot on with this batch.

2.5 gallon batch

4 lb 2 row
1.25 lb Vienna
8 oz Flaked Oats
4 oz Crystal 10 L
2 oz Acid Malt
6 oz corn sugar to boil

Hop Schedule

60 min
7 g Magnum 21 IBU

10 min
7 g Citra 7.8 IBU
7 g Mosaic 8 IBU
4 g Columbus 5.1 IBU

Hop Stand (30 min)
7 g Citra 8.3 IBU
7 g Mosaic 8.5 IBU
4 g Columbus 5.4 IBU

Dry Hop (5 days)
Citra 14 g
Mosaic 14 g
Columbus 7 g

1L Conan starter
Mashed @ 149 for 75 minutes
Boiled for 75 minutes
OG 1074

Glad to see you are stil making it. I'm doing one now with Citra, Mosaic and Amarillo. I did 10g batch....one fermenter got US05, one got WY1272.

 

[phyllobeddo]

Glad to see you are stil making it. I'm doing one now with Citra, Mosaic and Amarillo. I did 10g batch....one fermenter got US05, one got WY1272.

Citra, Mosaic, and Amarillo combo sounds great too. I'm just loving the "dank" Columbus in this recipe! If I brew this again, I will probably bump up the Columbus a few more grams here and there.

 

[m00ps]

Citra, Mosaic, and Amarillo combo sounds great too. I'm just loving the "dank" Columbus in this recipe! If I brew this again, I will probably bump up the Columbus a few more grams here and there.

If you really want to push dank flavors, Columbus is definitely a cornerstone, but adding some fresh apollo in any post-boil additions will really put it over the edge. Plus, both hops are dirt cheap

 

[phyllobeddo]

If you really want to push dank flavors, Columbus is definitely a cornerstone, but adding some fresh apollo in any post-boil additions will really put it over the edge. Plus, both hops are dirt cheap

I have an ounce of Apollo on hand that has no recipe yet. Dry hop with it and some Columbus you think?