Circular braid vs. false bottom

[Whatsgoodmiley]

I'm switching to AG. I've bought the 10 gal. circular cooler and now I have to decide between installing a false bottom and a circular braid.

Questions:

1) I'm confident both are very efficient and I know that the braid will reduce the chance of stuck mashes and may filter more particulates out than the false bottom. I also realize efficiency isn't the be-all and end-all. But which is more efficient?

2) how much will it cost? I know I can buy a 12" false bottom for ~$30, but I don't know how much more the parts for the circular braid would cost.

3) what parts do I need to buy to build the circular braid? Or can I bug someone at Home Depot about this?

 

[specharka]

False bottoms are better at precluding stuck sparges. Braids are better for wort clarification. I've used both and I'd rather have a false bottom for its simplicity in cleaning and maintenance.

There's really no difference in efficiency -- you're going to get an equivalent amount of dead space with either option. Braids can be built more cheaply, but if you can get a false bottom for $30 that's probably the way to go. I built my braid from a short length of SS braided hose, a 3/8" hose barb, a 3/8" plug, a small section of 7/16" vinyl tube and a few SS clamps. The SS clamp bolts started to corrode after a few uses so I'd recommend using a different method to fasten your braid to the mash tun.

 

[SGTSparty]

Hopefully you'll get a better answer than this but I've been doing research for the same thing and from what I've found w/ a false bottom you'll also need (i dont know how strong a need it really is) a pick up tube to reduce your dead space and to help prevent channeling and that braids are better for batch sparging than fly (possibly can also lead to channeling?).

as far parts if you want to build one yourself (no-weld/solder) you need a a stainless T fitting, 1/2" barbs that fit that T fitting. the braid and some hose or oerlikon clamps to attach the braid to the barbs. This is assuming the T fitting fits into whatever you replace the coolers spiggot with. based on my shopping list (aka amazon) it looks like this pricing wise

1/2" Femalt T $2.80 x 1
1/2" NPT to 1/2" Barb $5.50 x 2
SS Braid Washer hookup $7.99 x 1
Clamps $0.25 x 2

But again, this i just from my research so IDK if any of this makes sense to a seasoned brewer. hopefully it helps some?

 

[doug293cz]

For batch sparging, FB or braid should work equally well. The most important thing for efficiency is minimizing the undrainable MLT volume. For example, a 3 qt undrainable vol vs. 1/2 qt will cost you about 5 percentage points of efficiency.

For fly sparging, a FB is preferred since it is easier to avoid channeling during the sparge. Channeling is the biggest detriment to lauter efficiency when fly sparging.

Wort clarity in the boil is a meaningless metric. Everything settles out in the fermenter, and you can get crystal clear beer from very cloudy wort.

Brew on

 

[Denny]

As far as braids being more prone to stuck runoff, I've done 500 batches with the same braid and never had one stick...even with 60% rye malt. There is no advantage to a circular braid. Remember it's porous...wort doesn't enter and run around the braid. Everything drains at the outlet. A straight piece of braid will work just as well and be easier to use. Take a look at this...www.dennybrew.com .

 

[jtp137]

For batch sparging, FB or braid should work equally well. The most important thing for efficiency is minimizing the undrainable MLT volume. For example, a 3 qt undrainable vol vs. 1/2 qt will cost you about 5 percentage points of efficiency.



For fly sparging, a FB is preferred since it is easier to avoid channeling during the sparge. Channeling is the biggest detriment to lauter efficiency when fly sparging.



Wort clarity in the boil is a meaningless metric. Everything settles out in the fermenter, and you can get crystal clear beer from very cloudy wort.



Brew on

What he said all depends on how you sparge

 

[CGVT]

From the FWIW department: I read too much before I started brewing. I found a round cooler because I was going to eventually fly sparge. I started with a braid and batch sparged, then got a false bottom and try fly sparging. I found that it added nothing to my beer and only added time to my brew day. If I had it to do over again I would get a cheap rectangular cooler and set up exactly as Denny has it set up. It is cheap, easy and makes beer just as good as any other method. I always recommend that and refer new brewers to his link when asked.

(Time for the Cult of BIAB to chime in...)

 

[Whatsgoodmiley]

Remember it's porous...wort doesn't enter and run around the braid. Everything drains at the outlet. A straight piece of braid will work just as well and be easier to use. Take a look at this...www.dennybrew.com .

I understand what you mean. You're saying the wort farthest from the drain will choose to travel a straight line through the circular braid. Will that still be true with 8# of grain blocking that route? I'd much rather take the path around a packed crowd than through it.

As for sparging techniques, I understand the false bottom is better optimized than the straight braid for fly sparging, however, IF the circular braid works out the way I described earlier, it should have similar results when fly sparging.

That being said, I'm started with batch sparging. I would just like the option of doing something else later on if I'd like to.

I do agree that I read too much on it though.

 

[Denny]

I understand what you mean. You're saying the wort farthest from the drain will choose to travel a straight line through the circular braid. Will that still be true with 8# of grain blocking that route? I'd much rather take the path around a packed crowd than through it.

As for sparging techniques, I understand the false bottom is better optimized than the straight braid for fly sparging, however, IF the circular braid works out the way I described earlier, it should have similar results when fly sparging.

That being said, I'm started with batch sparging. I would just like the option of doing something else later on if I'd like to.

I do agree that I read too much on it though.

The wort will bypass that circle and flow through both the braid and grain bed to the outlet. As long as you're batch sparging now, put a short length of straight braid in there and go for it. Should you ever decide you want to fly sparge, put in a false bottom.

Every new brewer seems to want to start with batch sparging but leave the option of fly sparging open. Few ever find a reason to do that.

 

[wilserbrewer]

Fluid wants to take the path of least resistance, in a fast draining batch sparge approach that path is within the first several inches of braid next to the bulkhead and out of the tun. With a quick runoff, everything past 6" of braid carries very little to none of the wort IMO.

 

[brewbama]

There is another option: use a bag as a filter vs the braid or false bottom. Mash in a bag, drain, boil, cool, pitch, ferment, keg, cold crash, drink.

http://www.brewinabag.com/collections/frontpage/products/the-brew-bag-for-coolers

 

[wilserbrewer]

Yes, the bag in the cooler is the easiest approach, buy a cooler with drain and a bag, and your mashing in 5 minutes with no building...we sell quite a few for coolers and also conventional MT's with false bottoms to keep the run off clean for pumps and plate chillers.

 

[Tactical-Brewer]

I got all fancy with mine, thought to myself "I'll get a nice super long piece of stainless mesh hose and make a circle" similar to the picture you shown. Of course I wanted to do fly sparging because, that's awesome and that's how the "Pros" do it...

What I ended up with was crummy efficiency and a ridiculously long stainless mesh tube that did nothing of what I thought it would. Again, I didn't think about it being porous or how actual mashing worked. I even stirred and stirred every 20 minutes through the mash and thought to myself, "Man I'm gonna have killer efficiency this time around!" Nope.

The last batch I did was the last batch I'll do fly sparging until I get my false bottom and pick up tube done. And truth be told, I'll probably not even want to go to fly sparging from the success of what everyone here has said about batch sparging being just as efficient. Now I know I will because I want to make a cool percolator that will drop hot water down from my HLT and me stand there and watch it like a knucklehead while I drink a beer, but I guarantee that nostalgia will wear off soon because it'll add another 45-60 minutes to a brew day vs batch sparging.

But anyways, just my .02 cents. No matter what, have fun and enjoy it bud

 

[doug293cz]

I got all fancy with mine, thought to myself "I'll get a nice super long piece of stainless mesh hose and make a circle" similar to the picture you shown. Of course I wanted to do fly sparging because, that's awesome and that's how the "Pros" do it...

What I ended up with was crummy efficiency and a ridiculously long stainless mesh tube that did nothing of what I thought it would. Again, I didn't think about it being porous or how actual mashing worked. I even stirred and stirred every 20 minutes through the mash and thought to myself, "Man I'm gonna have killer efficiency this time around!" Nope.

The last batch I did was the last batch I'll do fly sparging until I get my false bottom and pick up tube done. And truth be told, I'll probably not even want to go to fly sparging from the success of what everyone here has said about batch sparging being just as efficient. Now I know I will because I want to make a cool percolator that will drop hot water down from my HLT and me stand there and watch it like a knucklehead while I drink a beer, but I guarantee that nostalgia will wear off soon because it'll add another 45-60 minutes to a brew day vs batch sparging.

But anyways, just my .02 cents. No matter what, have fun and enjoy it bud

A well conducted fly sparge will beat a well conducted batch sparge slightly in lauter efficiency. Maybe by a couple of percentage points. However, a badly conducted fly sparge will under perform, even a mediocre batch sparge. It's much easier to get acceptable batch sparge results than acceptable fly sparge results. Fly sparging isn't quite rocket science, but it requires correctly designed equipment and following best practices procedures.

Brew on

 

[Whatsgoodmiley]

Thanks everyone! I've thought about everyone's suggestions and I am going to start small and easy - a simple straight braid!

 

[Denny]

Fluid wants to take the path of least resistance, in a fast draining batch sparge approach that path is within the first several inches of braid next to the bulkhead and out of the tun. With a quick runoff, everything past 6" of braid carries very little to none of the wort IMO.

I've proven this, at least to myself, by using braid from 2 ft. to 3 in. long. All had the same runoff speed.

 

[Denny]

Thanks everyone! I've thought about everyone's suggestions and I am going to start small and easy - a simple straight braid!

Smart man. For 18 years and 500 batches, my brewing has been driven by my laziness...er, "pragmatism". I'll do whatever it takes to make great beer, but I've spent a lot of time figuring out what matters and what doesn't. If it doesn't improve my beer or doesn't make the brewing process more fun for me, I don't do it. After all, this IS a hobby...it's supposed to be fun. If you stress over it, you're doing it wrong.

 

[purplerat]

Yes, the bag in the cooler is the easiest approach, buy a cooler with drain and a bag, and your mashing in 5 minutes with no building...we sell quite a few for coolers and also conventional MT's with false bottoms to keep the run off clean for pumps and plate chillers.

It's the easiest initial setup but having gone from the bag to a braid recently myself I found the latter far easier each brew. The hour or so I spent building my braid and setting up the cooler was easily made up for after 2-3 batches of not having to clean a mesh bag afterwards. Hosing out a cooler/braid is much easier than cleaning spent grain out of a fine mesh bag.

 

[Denny]

It's the easiest initial setup but having gone from the bag to a braid recently myself I found the latter far easier each brew. The hour or so I spent building my braid and setting up the cooler was easily made up for after 2-3 batches of not having to clean a mesh bag afterwards. Hosing out a cooler/braid is much easier than cleaning spent grain out of a fine mesh bag.

I timed the last cooler/braid I built. Just under 15 min. start to finish.

 

[jtp137]

I started with a cooler made three batches and then I built a herms system now I am thinking of going back to the cooler and braid can anyone honestly say they switched to herms fly sparge and beer got better?

 

[kh54s10]

Use a water heater supply line instead of a sink supply line for your braid. It is stiff enough that you can beat the crap out of it with your mash paddle and not crimp it down...

 

[Denny]

Use a water heater supply line instead of a sink supply line for your braid. It is stiff enough that you can beat the crap out of it with your mash paddle and not crimp it down...

I have used a sink supply line, with no reinforcement, for 500 batches and never had a problem with it. The key is to get the right braid. You want Lasco brand (part number 10-0121 or 10-0321) .

 

[wilserbrewer]

I think also worth mentioning is to stir the mash gently in the direction of the braid. Some braids take hella abuse cause people think they need to stir like an outboard motor.

 

[Whatsgoodmiley]

Any more procedural techniques?

 

[Schmoltsbeer]

I think also worth mentioning is to stir the mash gently in the direction of the braid. Some braids take hella abuse cause people think they need to stir like an outboard motor.

Some of us can't help pretend we're an outboard motor...

 

[Denny]

Any more procedural techniques?

See www.dennybrew.com

 

[rippajak]

I'm a big fan of the "cobble it together with hardware store parts" school of thought, sometimes to my own detriment.

I went the SS braided hose route in building my mash tun, but I just used a straight line rather than a circle. Used a coupler and a hose barb adapter to attach to my bulkhead, then hose clamped the braided stainless to the hose barb. I used a stainless steel bolt and a hose clamp to plug up the other end of the line.

30+ batches and I haven't had any issues. Consistently run 75-80% efficiency, unless I'm brewing something irresponsibly big. As others have said, it's a bit difficult to clean. Make sure you have a way to take it apart and run water through it.