Cider starter

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slimgid

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Just took note of a good amount of fresh pressed (pasteurized but no additives) juice in my area and decided to do some cider. I'm a firm believer in robust starters for beer.

Is a starter for cider recommended? If so how best to whip one up?

Was thinking of just taking some of the juice(1L), yeast nutrient and the yeast and putting it on the stir plate for 24 hrs in my farm chamber.
 
Copy that... I guess I'll skip it. Any reasoning behind not doing it, or just unnecessary work.
 
Just my opinion, but I make starters for wine, mead, and cider in most cases. In the case of cider the reason is I use ale yeasts and I never do less than a 6 gallon batch so I end up with about 5 gallons. And at the standard pitch rate for ales of 500,000 cells per ml you need about 141 billion cells total which you don't get in a regular dry yeast packet (~55 billion) or a liquid yeast vial (~125 billion average). Of course if you're doing =< 3 gallons a starter wouldn't be necessary. I know most dry yeast packets and liquid yeast vials claim they're enough for 5-6 gallons, and they can be given enough time but you'll have a longer lag time until the yeasts build up enough population. This ain't always bad if you want more fruity esters but you do run the risk of stressing the yeast to where they might put out off flavors depending on the other variables. I don't have much experience making cider so this is just book knowledge from making wine and mead but until I get more trigger time that's what I believe to be true. Also lower temperatures favor a larger yeast population as well or the lag time will increase further, so like in the case of certain ale yeasts, if you ferment them at their optimum temperatures of between 63-68 or so, it's probably better to have a higher population from a starter than if you were fermenting at say 72 or so. Up till now I believe my wines and meads came out better by using starters but until I make two identical batches of cider except use a starter in one but not the other I can't say for sure. I'm going to stick with them until I find out different.
 
Slim - If you decide to make a batch using a starter, and if it's 5 gallons or more, I've found 1.5L works good. I've been taking that amount from the 6 gallons I plan to use and when you pitch the starter you end up with the total amount you wanted to start with in the beginning. If you're using dry yeast just re-hydrate it like you normally would with Go-Ferm and then pitch into the 1.5L starter, and if you have a stir-plate like I believe you said you did, turn her on low for about 24 hours and you'll have a hungry batch of yeast cells ready to blitz-krieg your apple juice.

Maylar is right about using yeast nutrient if you're not using a starter. I haven't been using nutrient in addition to my starters because I don't want them fermenting all the way dry if I can help it. I'm figuring by not adding nutrient I'm doing something similar to keeving. But if you're going to go with a straight pitch I'd use the nutrient.
 
I haven't been using nutrient in addition to my starters because I don't want them fermenting all the way dry if I can help it. I'm figuring by not adding nutrient I'm doing something similar to keeving. But if you're going to go with a straight pitch I'd use the nutrient.

I've found that nutrient affects the time but not the FG. My current batch with S-04 took 4 weeks to reach 1.000 without nutrient, but it got there.
 
All great info. Thanks. Made a run to the home brew store today to get some yeast. I like white labs for beer so I went with their British Cider strain. Here goes!!!!
 
I've found that nutrient affects the time but not the FG. My current batch with S-04 took 4 weeks to reach 1.000 without nutrient, but it got there.

Thanks for the info - that's good to know. I want to try a batch with one of the four different yeasts I tried but add nutrients to see how much it affects the flavor. If it affects the fermentation time I'm guessing the flavor probably changes somewhat and that would be interesting to see.
 
Only time I have done anything resembling a starter was when I wanted to use some dregs of a previous batch that were buried in the back of the fridge for an indeterminate time period.

Drained off the residue of the previous lot, added a quart or so of fresh juice, left it on the counter. Poured the whole lot into the carboy when I was sure it was going well.

If using packaged yeasts, esp dry ones, would not bother.

TeeJo
 
The only thing i do is re-hydrate the yeast in 1/4 cup of luke warm water with a little sugar. I let it set long enough to make sure the yeast is active.
 
Ok. May have screwed up bad. I poured out 1L of juice into my flask, didn't boil because it was pasteurized and then added my yeast nutrient right into it and pitched my yeast. I'm used to using the northern Brewer pasteurized starter mixtures so boiling was not on my mind. The nutrient was a brand new container (sealed and everything until 30 seconds before it got tapped out to the measuring spoon) and the measuring spoon came straight from sanitizer. How likely have I contaminated the starter from non-boiled yeast nutrient?

It's in the stir plate now and I didn't realize what I did till just a minute ago.
 
Ok. May have screwed up bad. I poured out 1L of juice into my flask, didn't boil because it was pasteurized and then added my yeast nutrient right into it and pitched my yeast. I'm used to using the northern Brewer pasteurized starter mixtures so boiling was not on my mind. The nutrient was a brand new container (sealed and everything until 30 seconds before it got tapped out to the measuring spoon) and the measuring spoon came straight from sanitizer. How likely have I contaminated the starter from non-boiled yeast nutrient?

It's in the stir plate now and I didn't realize what I did till just a minute ago.

It will be fine!
 
Ayup.

Not gonna hurt anything, just another step that you didn't really need to do is all.

TeeJo
 
Are you worried about contamination or that you added yeast nutrient, i.e., Fermaid K instead of Go-Ferm? I wouldn't worry about contamination at all. If you added Fermaid K instead of Go-Ferm I don't know what effect that will have but I wouldn't worry about it. I never heard of anyone having a problem that did that. I think you're good.
 
Whew! Glad the consensus is no worries about contamination. I'd just trash it and start over but I don't have an easily accessible place to get yeast and I'm all out. Thanks everyone.
 
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