Cider smells...

[gedion]

OK so I have been brewing beer for a few years now and recently I decided to give my hand a try at cider making. I realized I had extra yeast I could use so why not right? Recipe is as follows. (I dont know the difference between a cider or an apple wine so bear with me)

Cider.

Three gallons Mott's apple juice

2 x 46oz kerns pear juice

3 x old orchard apple juices concentrate

Formax yeast nutrients

Sweet mead yeast

73°-75° temp (peaked at 80° one after noon)

O.G 1.060 (if I remember correctly)

Alright, its been bubbling away for the last few days and I just happen to notice the smell. Its very ...sulfur like? Not really but its hard to explain. Is this not so pleasant smell normal? Its not the regular beer smell I'm use to, and doubt I have an infection but it doesn't stop me from pacing back and forth in my head.

Advice?

 

[UpstateMike]

You got a case of the "Rhino Farts".

Yeast nutrient, yeast energizer, and a lower temp (65 -70) would have helped prevent this.

It will go away on its own, and the cider will be fine.

 

[Aa760]

Interested in your question also. I did a Perry with 5 gallons fresh squeezed pear juice. Hit it with Camden for 24 hrs, the pitched a 1.2 L starter of WLP 002. Fermented and conditioned at 67 for a month then bottled. It's been in bottle for about a month, and I get a notable hit of sulfur on the nose. I thought it was perhaps a characteristic of the yeast choice. Interested in the feedback from others. Similar experiences? Knowledge of cause? Will is fade with time? How to avoid in the future?

 

[gedion]

You got a case of the "Rhino Farts".

Yeast nutrient, yeast energizer, and a lower temp (65 -70) would have helped prevent this.

It will go away on its own, and the cider will be fine.

Glad to hear it will go away. I did nutrients but no energizer. And would you recommend the lower temps even if it was outside the recommended temp for the yeast? Ideal temp is between 70°- 75° granted there was a spike to 80° but would such a short period of time be enough to cause that?

 

[UpstateMike]

If you used Wyeast 4184 Sweet Mead yeast, the temperature range is 60-75 F.

If you used WLP720 Sweet Mead / Wine yeast, the temperature range is 70-75 F.

You should always try to operate within the temp range of your yeast.

If the temp in the carboy went up to 80, that is enough to stress the yeast and cause the Rhino Farts.

 

[Yooper]

Adding nutrients now will help- dissolve it in some of the cider or water first to avoid a volcano- as it doesn't always go away if the yeast is greatly stressed.

 

[gedion]

If you used Wyeast 4184 Sweet Mead yeast, the temperature range is 60-75 F.

If you used WLP720 Sweet Mead / Wine yeast, the temperature range is 70-75 F.

You should always try to operate within the temp range of your yeast.

If the temp in the carboy went up to 80, that is enough to stress the yeast and cause the Rhino Farts.

Yeah I used the WLP720 yeast.
Its funny how such a few degrees can be enough to effect the process.

 

[gedion]

Adding nutrients now will help- dissolve it in some of the cider or water first to avoid a volcano- as it doesn't always go away if the yeast is greatly stressed.

I put them in at the beginning. Another addition would help now?

 

[Yooper]

I put them in at the beginning. Another addition would help now?

Yes. The ones added at the beginning are used up.

 

[gedion]

Awesome, I'll give it a go!

 

[Mr_fleabite]

My rule of thumb is if it's above 5 brix (1.0197 sg) add some more nutrient, if less than 5 brix, but not dry use copper and a splash rack (the sulfur smell (H2S) bonds to copper). If the cider is dry you can soak sanitized copper pipe or gently stir with one (no aeration) and it can help.

Earlier it's treated the better. As mentioned above even temps help a great deal, IMHO lower temps (60-65) and a slightly longer ferments keep fruitier characters around. Caveat, this is a general rule and slower/ longer/ lower temps doesn't mean better.

 

[schwiz]

I've read that copper in cider is bad, will turn your cider green and possibly toxic...

 

[Yooper]

I've read that copper in cider is bad, will turn your cider green and possibly toxic...

It's one treatment for bad H2S, but I wouldn't try that unless it was really turning into H2S. Some nutrient and/or a bit of stirring (and make sure it's off of the lees, of course) will probably improve it just fine.

 

[gedion]

Yes. The ones added at the beginning are used up.

This actually brings up another question. If the nutrient is added and the fermentation stops soon after. Will they add any off flavors/smells? They don't smell very good themselves so I'm wondering if there really helping the cause.

 

[Mr_fleabite]

In my experience, yes (the main reason for my 5 brix rule). If you have unused nutrient left in cider or wine it can leave a yeasty or dough-like aroma/flavor. It can also provide a source of nutrition for unwanted bacteria, so it's important to stay on top of your ferments (I'm a detail & proactive kind of guy so that's my style).
If you aren't going to ML ferment/ "secondary ferment" the cider/wine once you hit your RS target (sweet or dry). Rack off lees, hit with SO2, Cold crash ASAP.

 

[gedion]

In my experience, yes (the main reason for my 5 brix rule). If you have unused nutrient left in cider or wine it can leave a yeasty or dough-like aroma/flavor. It can also provide a source of nutrition for unwanted bacteria, so it's important to stay on top of your ferments (I'm a detail & proactive kind of guy so that's my style).
If you aren't going to ML ferment/ "secondary ferment" the cider/wine once you hit your RS target (sweet or dry). Rack off lees, hit with SO2, Cold crash ASAP.

i just took a reading on it, i went from about 1.06 to 1.01. coming out about 6.5% right now. maybe a tad more cause i got some lees in there. the taste is almost perfect as far as dryness. could use minimal sweetening and just a touch more apply goodness. but other than that its good.

i do however get a prominent "Doughy/yeasty" taste to it. its been in there for just under two weeks though. should i leave it for a few more and then rack to a secondary for a month or so? im working with brew buckets so my only concern is oxygen eventually getting in. as far as airlock activity, i get a nice bubble every couple minuets so its still active.

 

[Yooper]

i just took a reading on it, i went from about 1.06 to 1.01. coming out about 6.5% right now. maybe a tad more cause i got some lees in there. the taste is almost perfect as far as dryness. could use minimal sweetening and just a touch more apply goodness. but other than that its good.

i do however get a prominent "Doughy/yeasty" taste to it. its been in there for just under two weeks though. should i leave it for a few more and then rack to a secondary for a month or so? im working with brew buckets so my only concern is oxygen eventually getting in. as far as airlock activity, i get a nice bubble every couple minuets so its still active.

If you have buckets, then you've got a problem. You really need a jug/carboy/demijohn or something with no headspace to let this age a bit now that fermentation is slowing.

At this point, it is yeasty because it is not finished and it needs time to finish before it will clear.

 

[gedion]

If you have buckets, then you've got a problem. You really need a jug/carboy/demijohn or something with no headspace to let this age a bit now that fermentation is slowing.

At this point, it is yeasty because it is not finished and it needs time to finish before it will clear.

yeah that's what i was afraid of but i haven't really had the means to get a large carboy. i have a 1g glass one ill be racking some mead into in a few weeks but that doesn't really help with the other few gallons. what would you recommend for this situation?

 

[Yooper]

yeah that's what i was afraid of but i haven't really had the means to get a large carboy. i have a 1g glass one ill be racking some mead into in a few weeks but that doesn't really help with the other few gallons. what would you recommend for this situation?

More small jugs? I went dumpster diving for mine, but I have friends who bought Carlo Rossi in gallon jugs, and used it for sangria, and got their jugs that way.

 

[gedion]

More small jugs? I went dumpster diving for mine, but I have friends who bought Carlo Rossi in gallon jugs, and used it for sangria, and got their jugs that way.

yeah thats probably not going to happen for me unfortunately. ill cross my fingers and hope everything comes out ok.

 

[Apple_Jacker]

Visit some recycling centers. You'll find plenty of free 1 gallon or 4 liter glass jugs. That's how I started compiling my cache of tester jugs for cider and wine experiments.