Cider noob order of operations?

[birdley123]

OK, so I got the beer thing down;
Now, on to cider... (making/BOTTLING, sweet cider)
mix it up, check.
let it ferment...check.
check the SG...check.
rack to secondary...check.
"backsweeten"? ...WTH?
AFTER fermentation is done? Right before its done?
Will it kick it back in?

Can someone shed some light on this for me please? I don't want to go through these steps only to realize I missed a step, ingredient, and now have
dry, fizzy, bottle bomb-to-bes!

As always,

 

[eluterio]

From what Ive been told when you make a cider, im no expert either, you need to kill the yeast before you add back sweetener to it. If you dont you will kick start fermentation with the added sugar. Now heres the bigger question, you bottling it? If your bottling it and want to add sweetness to it you might have to go artifical flavor to sweeten it up. If you are kegging it kill the yeast with campden tablets which is sodium metabisulfite. Then add your sweetness into your keg rack and pressurize.

 

[birdley123]

Now, on to cider... (making/BOTTLING, sweet cider)

...yep, so use priming sugar, like dextrose at bottling time?

 

[eluterio]

that would work just fine as well as honey, molasses, brown and white sugar.

 

[phug]

order of operations is going to vary depending on what type of product you are making.

Completely Dry? or with some level of sweetness?
Carbed? or Still?
Do you have access to Kegging equipment?
Do you care if you add chemicals to your beverage ( Potassium Sorbate, and Potassium Metabisulphate) ? or are you chemical additive averse?

 

[birdley123]

order of operations is going to vary depending on what type of product you are making.

Completely Dry? or with some level of sweetness?
Carbed? or Still?
Do you have access to Kegging equipment?
Do you care if you add chemicals to your beverage ( Potassium Sorbate, and Potassium Metabisulphate) ? or are you chemical additive averse?

definitely some level of sweetness
Carbed
no access to kegging
not chemically additive adverse

Does this help?

 

[Yooper]

Now, on to cider... (making/BOTTLING, sweet cider)

...yep, so use priming sugar, like dextrose at bottling time?

definitely some level of sweetness
Carbed
no access to kegging
not chemically additive adverse

Does this help?

It's almost impossible to make a semi sweet sparking bottled cider without methods like pasteurizing the bottles.

The reason is that the yeast doesn't know your intent, to leave some sweetness but still stay alive to eat some sugar to carbonate your bottles. If the yeast is active, it will take a cider dry.

Making a carbonated dry cider is easy. You add priming sugar to a finished batch, and that's it.

Making a sweet non-carbonated cider is easy. You finish the fermentation, stabilize with campden and sorbate, and sweeten to taste. (The sorbate keeps the yeast from reproducing and not starting up again).

The semi-sweet or sweet cider that is carbonated is the issue.

You could try sweetening with a non-fermentable sweetener (splenda?) and priming, but many people find artificial sweeteners objectionable. Otherwise, the cider needs to be pasteurized before the bottles blow up if a sweet cider is bottled and carbonation is desired. (See the "stove top pasteurization" sticky thread for the details on how to do that).

 

[phug]

what Yooper said,

but to condense it for you, you have two main methods available to you.

no pasteurize method
mix it up, check.
let it ferment...check.
check the SG...check.
rack to secondary...check.
"backsweeten"? ...WTH? ( after it's done fermenting, add non-fermentable sugars to the level of sweetness that you want )
Add Prming sugar, of a fermentable variety
bottle
sit back and let a mini fermentation eat up the priming sugar to give you carbonation

Pasteurize method (tricky)
mix it up, check.
let it ferment...check.
check the SG...check.
rack to secondary...check.
option 1: don't let it go all the way dry, bottle near the sweetness level you like,
let it continue fermenting a little bit in the bottles until they're carbed up.
Follow the stovetop pasteurising thread to make sure they don't explode.
option 2: let it finish fermenting,
backsweeten with a fermentable sugar
bottle it
let it continue fermenting a little bit in the bottles until they're carbed up.
Follow the stovetop pasteurising thread to make sure they don't explode.

 

[birdley123]

"got it"! (finally)
Thx...

 

[Nephthyz]

I use more juice to carb my bottles of cider. When it comes time to bottle I will add in another .5-1 gallon of juice (might be more cider or blueberry or any other flavor you can get your hands on) I let the sugar from that carb my bottles as well as add back some sweetness/flavor.

So my list is normally:

Add juice to Carboy
Add Yeast
Mix
Let ferment for desired time
(Secondary optional)
Bottling time - Add to bottling bucket
Add in .5-1gallon desired juice
Mix
Bottle
When carbonated Pasteurize

 

[TheOrlandoGuy]

I'm venturing Into my first cider as well, but I have the ability to keg. I guess I'd ferment, back sweeten and keg? Can It be that simple?

 

[ericbw]

I'm venturing Into my first cider as well, but I have the ability to keg. I guess I'd ferment, back sweeten and keg? Can It be that simple?

With a keg, it is almost just that simple! I think you need to kill the yeast (chemicals or heat), backsweeten and carbonate in the keg. We have had success with vat pasteurizing (put the fermented cider in a pot and heat to pasteurization temp), then diluting with fresh cider and kegging it. The fresh cider dilutes the alcohol and sweetens it.

Disclaimer: some will say that you're oxidizing your cider when you expose it to air like that. You COULD just backsweeten and not pasteurize, as long as you keep the keg cold. But if you ever bottle from the keg, then you'd have to bottle pasteurize or keep it refrigerated. Since you might give some bottles away, and you never know what someone might do with the bottle, it seems safer to pasteurize in some way.

You could also just sweeten and not dilute, but you'd probably have 7-9% ABV.

 

[ericbw]

This year, I am going to try at least one gallon using Munton's yeast. It is horrible yeast that gives up and leaves a lot of sweetness. Usually you don't want that, but in this case you do.

 

[TheOrlandoGuy]

With a keg, it is almost just that simple! I think you need to kill the yeast (chemicals or heat), backsweeten and carbonate in the keg. We have had success with vat pasteurizing (put the fermented cider in a pot and heat to pasteurization temp), then diluting with fresh cider and kegging it. The fresh cider dilutes the alcohol and sweetens it.

Disclaimer: some will say that you're oxidizing your cider when you expose it to air like that. You COULD just backsweeten and not pasteurize, as long as you keep the keg cold. But if you ever bottle from the keg, then you'd have to bottle pasteurize or keep it refrigerated. Since you might give some bottles away, and you never know what someone might do with the bottle, it seems safer to pasteurize in some way.

You could also just sweeten and not dilute, but you'd probably have 7-9% ABV.

Thanks for the advice Eric. It seems to be kegs for the win once again! Best Investment I've made.

 

[birdley123]

what Yooper said,

but to condense it for you, you have two main methods available to you.

no pasteurize method
mix it up, check.
let it ferment...check.
check the SG...check.
rack to secondary...check.
"backsweeten"? ...WTH? ( after it's done fermenting, add non-fermentable sugars to the level of sweetness that you want )
Add Prming sugar, of a fermentable variety
bottle
sit back and let a mini fermentation eat up the priming sugar to give you carbonation

Pasteurize method (tricky)
mix it up, check.
let it ferment...check.
check the SG...check.
rack to secondary...check.
option 1: don't let it go all the way dry, bottle near the sweetness level you like,
let it continue fermenting a little bit in the bottles until they're carbed up.
Follow the stovetop pasteurising thread to make sure they don't explode.
option 2: let it finish fermenting,
backsweeten with a fermentable sugar
bottle it
let it continue fermenting a little bit in the bottles until they're carbed up.
Follow the stovetop pasteurizing thread to make sure they don't explode.

OK, so I went with Option 2;
I sweetened with 1 can of AJC and just a touch of natural apple flavor;
added 3oz. priming sugar to bottling bucket also.
bottled as normal...
Here's the question: How long should I give it before checking for carbonation? 3 days? 5 days?
Then I'll pasteurize per instructions...

Thanks.

 

[ericbw]

OK, so I went with Option 2;
I sweetened with 1 can of AJC and just a touch of natural apple flavor;
added 3oz. priming sugar to bottling bucket also.
bottled as normal...
Here's the question: How long should I give it before checking for carbonation? 3 days? 5 days?
Then I'll pasteurize per instructions...

Thanks.

The easiest way is to do one plastic bottle. When it's hard like a new soda, it's done. I would check at 3 days just to be safe.

Also, with the AJC, you probably don't need priming sugar, sine the yeast will be eating the sugar in the AJC. With beer you put just enough for the yeast to eat, but you'll have more sugar than you need already.