Chocolate powder and specific gravity

[revjester]

Has anyone used coco powder to make mead and if so did you check specific gravity before and after adding the coco powder?

The reason I am asking:
After two successful batches of JOAM, I decided to jump to trying my hand at chocolate mead. I used the mead calculator found here http://brew.stderr.net/mead_og_calc.html
and figured out for a 6 gallon batch, I needed 18 pounds of honey to get to 1.106 OG. I was aiming for 1.100 but I figured this was close enough. I added in the coco powder (1 pound each of dutched and black) and when I tried to read the gravity, I got 1.140 and 1.138

There is a lot more to the story which I will tell in a couple of years if it turns out, but I am just thinking that coco powder does not mix well with water (I used a blender) tends to float (I did not see any powder floating) and maybe that is throwing off my readings.

 

[bernardsmith]

Hydrometers measure the density of liquids. I presume that it is very possible for cocoa powder to raise the density of a your must. MY working assumption is that 3 lbs of honey in a gallon (US ) will raise the gravity from1.000 to 1.120

 

[revjester]

By the calculator, 0.74 gallons water and 3 lbs honey gives one gallon must with a SG of 1.107. Now that calculator may not be accurate for the specific honey I used, it was raw and sourced locally. But if the powder throws off the reading, that is going to make it difficult to figure out. JOAM calls for 3 1/2 lbs in one gallon and it works. I made it with only 3 lbs and the mead was well received so I figure I should be good. I did dilute it down to 1.100 and it is bubbling away merrily but I am thinking I should add more back to it to make it 3 lbs in each gallon.

 

[revjester]

I decided to make a chocolate mead. I figured this would take two years. I planned on writing the stuff down and posting it when the mead was done. A lot of stuff has happened and rather than trying to keep track for two years I think it will be better to post it now and as things change, than to take the chance that I lose the info later. I guess it was Lord Rhys that got me excited about the chocolate mead. He wrote a really good write-up but almost no recipe really. He didn't say what kind of yeast, mention the starting gravity, explain how he added the chocolate powder (it is not easy), pretty much just says make mead, add coco, wait a few years. I am not giving him credit for what I am making.

Batch 1 and 2 were JAOM and that is my total experience before this but I read a lot.

Batch 3 and 4 both start in 6 gallon carboys. Plan is 3 pounds of honey in each gallon of water. This is not 3 pounds per gallon, this is 18 pounds in a 6 gallon batch. Sometimes it is unclear when people describe their mead, I want to be clear on what I am doing and my intentions.

I read that dutched coco powder gives more flavor but not color and black coco powder gives the best color but weak on flavor so I decided to add a pound of each to each batch. Also coco powder does not mix well with liquid, so I used a blender.

I step fed but there are multiple directions on how to do it and they do not match up. I like the ones by Hightest and Loveofrose because they are clearly and well written.

I also made a yeast starter and a few mistakes.

I have two stick on thermometer strips stuck on to batch 1. One near the top and one near the bottom. I figure they will all be close to the same temp and wanted to see if there was a difference between the top and bottom of the batch (all the same so far, but good to know). That is where all temp readings come from

 

[revjester]

Aug 16, 2014
Start batches 3 and 4 both made identical

18 lbs of honey, variety of local stuff bought from different places, wildflower, star thistle, and some from beekeepers that just label it "honey"
5 vanilla beans, grade B, chopped into 1 inch pieces (mistake)
1 lb dutched coco powder
1 lb black coco powder
2 packs lalvin 71B-1122 yeast (10 grams)
1 1/4 tsp DAP
1 1/4 tsp Fermid K
Spring water to make 6 gallons.

Yeast starter, no thermometer, so warm water and a tablespoon of Go-Ferm. Let it sit for 20 minutes before pitching.

Used a blender to mix the coco powder with the water, made a lot of bubbles. I also used it to mix the honey with the water since it would aerate the must really well. I thought it would be a good idea to chop the vanilla beans up with the blender but it wasn't. I added the Dap and Fermaid K (that is just the first stage nutrients I add more later)

I check the gravity and I read 1.140 and 1.138. I panic. My target was 1.100 so I do some math really fast and pull two gallons out of each and replace it with spring water, the gravity now reads 1.100 and 1.098. I put the excess into a 5 gallon carboy and add a gallon of springwater and that is how I started batch 5. Temperature 72.

 

[revjester]

Aug 17

Wake up to see batch 3 foaming over on the floor. The airlock is full and thankfully it is a three piece. The top of the carboy is full of foam and the foam is very stiff. It takes a bit of effort to push thru it with a hose. Batch 4 and 5 both have also built up foam but not to the airlock yet. I take one gallon out of each and put it in another 5 gallon carboy thus creating batch 6. I clean up the mess and the airlock. Add 3/4 tsp Fermaid K and 3/4 tsp DAP to all 4 batches and swirl the must around in each. By swirl, I mean the bottom of the carboy stays on the ground and I swirl it around so the must spins inside.

Apparently this is how the mead explosion accidents happen. The foam builds up and gets stiff plugs up the airlock and then the pressure builds up until it blows the airlock off. Good thing I made it late at night and checked it first thing in the morning.

Also I should mention cleaning. I used powdered brewery wash (PBW) and then Star San on everything. My equipment is new but I am a bit paranoid and that is a good thing.

 

[revjester]

Aug 18

Internet access has been rare lately but I get to check again and 3 lbs of honey in a gallon should give me 1.107 for SG. I think about this for a while and since I used 3 gallons in my JOAM, I know it is not too much, heck Joe said to use 3 1/2 lbs. Was my hydrometer off, did I read it wrong, or maybe the chocolate powder threw off the readings.

I decide to add more honey to bring the must back up to 3 lbs per gallon and not worry about the hydrometer. My honey supply is a little limited at the moment. I have (3) 1 lb, (2) 1 1/2 lb, and (3) 12 oz containers. I decide to go with 2 lbs in batch 3, 1 lb in batch 4, 2 lb 9 oz in batch 5, 2 lbs 11 oz in batch 6. I approximated on the ounces, just eyeballed it. Just enough water to rinse the last bits of honey out of the containers was also added.

I need more honey and I don't want to buy from the store. Apparently I am step feeding now. I don't know what this will do to the staggered nutrient additions. If I add more honey do I throw off the sugar breaks? The yeast supposedly stops taking up nutrients at a certain point (what point there is some debate). If I add more honey, do I change that?

Lot less worried about the mead explosion happening now. I add 1/4 tsp DAP abd 1/4 tsp Fermaid K to each batch and put a solid bung in the top and shook the hell out of each of them. By this I mean I turned them sideways, picked them up and shook them until the coco powder that had settled on the bottom had gone back into suspension.

temp 79, little higher than I wanted

 

[botigol]

I have a couple of thoughts that won't help with these batches, but might in the future. I think that the cocoa powder should have been added after primary fermentation had at least slowed, if not completed. This would help to protect the chocolate aroma. I haven't used 71B-1122 on a mead yet, but on a wine that I made earlier this summer, I don't remember it foaming too much. The protein in the cocoa powder may have contributed to the foam formation. Using averages from the internet, cocoa powder has roughly forty times the protein content of honey.

 

[revjester]

Aug 19

Batch 3 gets 3 lbs more honey
Batch 4 gets 4 lbs 8 oz more

Every batch gets:
1/4 tsp DAP
1/4 tsp Fermaid K
1/2 tsp Potassium bicarbonate

Shook the heck out of every batch getting the settled powder off the bottom again. I am done adding nutrient. I should have added the Potassium Bicarbonate at the start. I intended to, but forgot. Loveofrose convinced me to add it on his BOMM thread (awesome thread).

Original plan was 3 lbs in each gallon. That is what I put in to start. I diluted with 5 gallons of water so I need to make up for that. I checked my math and realized that I was adding honey and thinking it as 3 lbs added to each gallon. I need more honey to make it up for the added volume. However, I only planned on (2) six gallon batches in two carboys. Now I have 4 carboys going, (2) 6 gallon and (2) 5 gallon. I do not want the carboys full up or the foam will overflow them and the added honey has raised the volume in the carboys. I figure about 5 more lbs and that would bring the volume up to about 19 1/4 gallons. Already with the extra volume the foam it threatening the airlocks in three of the batches.

Also note, the little hand held vacuum pump I got to degas is worthless when there is more than a gallon of head space and the yeast is bubbling away happily, even after vigorous shaking.

Maybe I should have learned about blow off tubes.

 

[revjester]

I have a couple of thoughts that won't help with these batches, but might in the future. I think that the cocoa powder should have been added after primary fermentation had at least slowed, if not completed. This would help to protect the chocolate aroma. I haven't used 71B-1122 on a mead yet, but on a wine that I made earlier this summer, I don't remember it foaming too much. The protein in the cocoa powder may have contributed to the foam formation. Using averages from the internet, cocoa powder has roughly forty times the protein content of honey.

I was thinking making mead, then adding coco powder then aging for two years to avoid the big foam and mead explosion accidents. The problem is that the coco powder does not want to mix in with water, even after blending there were little spots of dry powder that popped up. I could not come up with a way mix in coco powder to mead without adding a lot of air to a finished mead and I believe that would ruin the batch. I am not worried about losing the chocolate aroma, I used double and it has to sit for years to break down. Maybe once the alcohol has formed it will mix with the coco powder better than water?

 

[revjester]

Checking the math. Considering everything to have been mixed evenly every time, and the amounts transferred to be accurate, and the amounts of honey to be added exact, and keeping the goal in mind of 1.100 specific gravity, and using this handy calculator
http://brew.stderr.net/mead_og_calc.html
I believe adding just one pound each to batches 3 and 4 will put me just over the 1.1 for the original gravity. Using only the calculator and ignoring the actual readings I got.

For example on batch 3
-originally I put in 18 lbs of honey in a 6 gallon must
-took out two gallons which would leave 12 lbs in a 4 gallon must
-added two gallons of spring water which would make 12 lbs in a 6 gallon must
-removed one gallon leaving 10 lbs in a 5 gallon must
-added 5 more lbs which makes 15 lbs in a 5.43 gallon must
-if I add one more lb, I will have 16 lbs in a 5.51 gallon must
-that calculates to a gravity of 1.103

That is close enough, just over 1.100 (better than just under)

Also took a three piece airlock to the hardware and checked out what size tube would fit over the little piece that sticks up on the inside. 5/8 inside diameter, 7/8 outside diameter. Apparently I can stick a piece of tubing over that little bit that sticks up in the middle of the airlock, run the other end of the tube into a bottle or bucket with water in it and make a blow-off tube that way. This would do the same job as an airlock with less chance of the foam (actually called Krausen ) spilling on the floor. I say less chance because the krausen can harden, plug up the tubing, build up pressure in the carboy, and still cause the whole thing to blow off spill all over and even spray the ceiling.

 

[revjester]

Aug 20
Shook all 4 vigorously. Temp 73

Giant bubbles that stop about an inch from the airlock. Don't understand why they stop. Bubbling at least once a second.

 

[revjester]

Aug 20 temp 73
Added one pound each to batches 3 and 4. Now all should have 3 lbs honey in each gallon of must.
Shook all batches.

Aug 21 temp 73
Giant bubbles still in batches 3 and 4, stopped in batches 5 and 6. Also batches 5 and 6 are lighter brown color, Apparently I did not get enough of the coco powder into them. I was panicking. But now that I have so much more than I planned on, maybe I could see what happens when I just dump coco powder into alcohol.

I will be away for a day, Maybe try this when I get back, maybe the powder will sink in a mostly finished must?

 

[bernardsmith]

I wonder if the cocoa powder acts to nucleate the CO2. I have generally only used cocoa powder in small batches and used large buckets. One thing I have done is to make hot chocolate - adding boiling water to the cocoa and then allowing the mixture to cool and then using that cooled mixture to the honey. What I do is blend the liquid with the honey in a blender - in part to really whip air into the must and in part to help mix the water and honey together.
My experience has been that it takes an inordinate amount of time for any wine or mead to which I add cocoa to clear. So there are other techniques - roasted cocoa nibs, for example or dark chocolate bars (finely grated) that contain very little cocoa butter... or Hershey's chocolate syrup ( I am experimenting with this last one in a lactomel - fermented milk and honey).

 

[revjester]

Sept 4, 2014
It hasn't really been bubbling for a few days. If I shake the carboys it would bubble away before, but now it has dropped off to one or two bubbles. No big foam any more. The color has changed to a light tan instead of almost black. That is no big deal all the coco powder is at the bottom. Was afraid my yeast had given up. Took a hydrometer reading and it is at 1.002. Now at the start I was reading 1.140 but I now think that was due to the coco powder. I panicked and diluted, then gave it more thought and added more honey so really I have no idea what the real original gravity reading is. I took a sip of the sample and it has a strong alcohol taste, really strong. I am guessing that because of the short ferment, it is what I have heard called fussels or rocket fuel and that it will age out. The plan was two years anyway so no worries. It may still have a little bit more to ferment, but I would not worry about bottling it now if I didn't need it to sit on the powder (and yeast) for a year. Everything looking good, I decided to shake up batch 6 really good and put it back in the other batches. I filled them up and still had a half gallon extra that I decided to put in a gallon jug with a balloon airlock so I could see if it produces much more gas and maybe add a little more honey to just to experiment. I will still call it batch 6.

 

[NZ-beekeeper]

What if you brew the chocolate like you would in a cup? Boiling water would allow the cocoa powder to go into suspension much faster and easier. Let it cool, then give it a good stir, add to honey solution, mix, take sg, pitch yeast etc.

 

[revjester]

I did basically that, but used a blender instead of hot water.
The question at the start that I need an answer to is - Does the coco powder change the specific gravity. I guess at some point I will just go buy more coco powder and do a test on a small amount. Unless you are suggesting that I heat, stir, cool, and then add to a finished mead to prevent the foam over and that might work without adding too much air.
But that will have to wait a few years to test. When I get more carboys I will make something other than chocolate until these batches are finished and I get to see if anyone likes them.

 

[NZ-beekeeper]

Yea, sorry I'm not able to help with your original question. But for your next batch why not try cocoa nibs? I have not done it myself, but there are others who have.

 

[revjester]

I might. I have not looked for them for sale yet, but I don't imagine they can be that hard to find. I did like the idea of stronger flavor with the dutched and darker color with the black, but really final taste should be the main concern.

 

[Briatta]

Have you seen this thread?

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f30/our-chocolate-mead-experiment-94358/

 

[NMZippo]

To quote Charlie Papazian "relax don't worry have a homebrew." When things go wrong try not to freak out. Relax take a minute and drink a beer or in this forum a mead. Things are not always as bad as they seem. If you freak out about little mistakes and then rush to compensate you tend to make bigger mistakes or at least I do. This is a fun hobby and should be enjoyable. It will surprise you how much you can screw things up and still end up with a finished product you enjoy. I would just leave it alone for a while and see how it turns out in a few months. Record detailed notes about how it tastes now so you can compare. If you do this every 3 months or so you can start to see how quickly it is getting better. If you fuss over it every few days you will not see any improvement and it will get frustrating. Again personal experience. Good luck and I hope it turns out great in the end


Sent from my iPad using Home Brew

 

[bernardsmith]

The key thing I take from the post from 2008 is not to seal the bucket when you pitch yeast to make a mead but treat it like wine and ferment in an open bucket perhaps covered with a clean towel. No blow-outs, no ceiling painted with chocolate, no need for blow-off tubes - no problems. When the primary fermentation has all but ceased and you are ready to rack the mead into a glass or plastic carboy then you add the bung and an airlock. Home and dry.

 

[revjester]

Have you seen this thread?

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f30/our-chocolate-mead-experiment-94358/

Yes, read every post before I started, but I based mine off of the extremely vague instructions of Lord Rhys.

 

[revjester]

Well, I racked today. A little over a year since starting.
I cold crashed them last night and there was a weird separation. The top half was very dark brown, so dark that my very bright flashlight could not shine through it the middle quarter was not easy to see through but drastically clearer. The bottom was just yeast and chocolate powder.
The last of batch 6 went back into the other batches
The gravity was 1.002 - 1.004

The dregs had a lot of liquid that I could not get with the racking cane, so I poured that into a gallon jug first and probably got a bit of dead yeast in too. The four batches filled the gallon jug and then some. If I had only one carboy I wouldn't have bothered, but I think I have enough to see if it will separate out and see how much I get.

The cleanup was "interesting". The chocolate powder had mixed with the dead yeast and wanted to stay together but still slid around. I added water and tried to pour it out but it plugged the hole. So I shook it and I had to not think about poop which was easy since the smell was delicious chocolate. It was a very easy cleanup since I did it right away. I don't know how hard it would have been if I left it sit and I don't want to think about it.

Cleaned the airlocks and now only a year to wait. Hope it is worth it. Tasting it at this point the alcohol seems strong.