Chicago water science.
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TheBreweryUnderground
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Bump! I wanna see this too. I use to not do anything but then let it sit out to get rid of chlorine, but I'm not sure if that's effective for chloramine or what is actually in Chicago water. Never tasted a difference between any brews.
I run my water through a drinking water safe hose to a GE whole house filter housing with active carbon filter. That's it. Tomorrow I'm brewing and I'm tossing in a ld Carlson button salts packet. I'm brewing an English IPA so we will see. I think any pale ale and IPA I brew in the future I will add gypsum.
The_Mad_Scientist
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I have lived in the City proper, Park Ridge area, and now in Lake Bluff. Here is what I have learned about the water in the three different places.
City proper water: Best IPA's I have ever done with this water, Very good Pales, Ambers anything that you want that Hop flaver with a kick. Horriable for my outmeal stout and sweater beers.
Park Ridge: A good all around kinda water....everything comes out good nothing fantastic
Lake Bluff: only 3 beers in....IPA not bad, Cream ale...fantastic very crisp and clean, Wheat...failed (but I think that is more me than the water)
And the best water I have ever had to make sweater stouts and malty beers....like oatmeal, milk, bourbon barrel ect....North Minneapolis
Just my .02
City proper water: Best IPA's I have ever done with this water, Very good Pales, Ambers anything that you want that Hop flaver with a kick. Horriable for my outmeal stout and sweater beers.
Park Ridge: A good all around kinda water....everything comes out good nothing fantastic
Lake Bluff: only 3 beers in....IPA not bad, Cream ale...fantastic very crisp and clean, Wheat...failed (but I think that is more me than the water)
And the best water I have ever had to make sweater stouts and malty beers....like oatmeal, milk, bourbon barrel ect....North Minneapolis
Just my .02
Beer smith suggests I add this to "Burtonize" my water.
20.24g Gypsum
8.34g Epsom Salt
.52g Calcium Chloride
4.20g Baking Soda
1.62g Chalk
What do you think? Oh its a 5.5 gallon batch of English IPA.
20.24g Gypsum
8.34g Epsom Salt
.52g Calcium Chloride
4.20g Baking Soda
1.62g Chalk
What do you think? Oh its a 5.5 gallon batch of English IPA.
In order to know what to add I need to know what you are starting with and what you are trying to get to. If the target is physically realizable (many aren't) it can be achieved by the addition of a few salts. However for Burton like water one of these is calcium carbonate which must be dissolved with carbonic acid (i.e. by sparging CO2). This is a time consuming process and as soon as the water is heated the calcium carbonate will just precipitate back out so you will have wasted your time and effort unless your object is to brew a beer starting with a water as close as possible to that with which the original Burton brewers were confronted i.e. authenticity is the goal.
In general, anyone who advises you to add bicarbonate (baking soda) and/or carbonate (chalk) to brewing water is giving you bad advice indeed. Those salts may be required but if they are it is because of very high dark malt content. IOW they wouldn't be required in an IPA. The determination that they are needed is made by measuring the pH of the mash.
The proposed gypsum addition would take the sulfate level to nearly 600 mg/L. According to the EPA if water contains more than 300 mg/L SO4 it is not 'aesthetically pleasing'. IOW it tastes bad. It hardly seems likely that a beer made with such a water could taste good but some brewers use sulfate up to the MCL (300 mg/L) and like the result. One of these is a professional. His customers don't like the result so I guess he doesn't do it much but he does. My local guy's best sellers are his really hoppy ales. He can squeeze lots of hops in because his water only runs 47 mg/L SO4. This is too much for Pils but OK for most other styles.
WRT sulfate the best ales are made with low sulfate but here 'best' is defined in terms of best tasting beer for most people. Some, as noted above, enjoy a higher sulfate level through its effects on the perception of hops. If you are one of those or if 'best' for you is defined in terms of authenticity, then have at the sulfate. The only way to find out where you fall is to brew the beer both ways (low and high sulfate levels) and pick the one you like best.
There is a Primer in the Stickies here which gives general advice on how to get started in water treatment.
In general, anyone who advises you to add bicarbonate (baking soda) and/or carbonate (chalk) to brewing water is giving you bad advice indeed. Those salts may be required but if they are it is because of very high dark malt content. IOW they wouldn't be required in an IPA. The determination that they are needed is made by measuring the pH of the mash.
The proposed gypsum addition would take the sulfate level to nearly 600 mg/L. According to the EPA if water contains more than 300 mg/L SO4 it is not 'aesthetically pleasing'. IOW it tastes bad. It hardly seems likely that a beer made with such a water could taste good but some brewers use sulfate up to the MCL (300 mg/L) and like the result. One of these is a professional. His customers don't like the result so I guess he doesn't do it much but he does. My local guy's best sellers are his really hoppy ales. He can squeeze lots of hops in because his water only runs 47 mg/L SO4. This is too much for Pils but OK for most other styles.
WRT sulfate the best ales are made with low sulfate but here 'best' is defined in terms of best tasting beer for most people. Some, as noted above, enjoy a higher sulfate level through its effects on the perception of hops. If you are one of those or if 'best' for you is defined in terms of authenticity, then have at the sulfate. The only way to find out where you fall is to brew the beer both ways (low and high sulfate levels) and pick the one you like best.
There is a Primer in the Stickies here which gives general advice on how to get started in water treatment.
The_Mad_Scientist said:
So you don't treat it with anything at all? I find it hard to imagine without acidifying your sparge that you get good tasting beer, for hoppier styles at least. It's all in the taste of each brewer though. Anything with low hops I have found to be ok.
Op, at minimum I would treat your sparge with a little acid...our ph is close to 8. Your mash should be ok with nothing changed.
My experience with Chicago water is different than mad scientist, my stouts and dark beers turn out great with no treatment, ipas are harsh and unpleasant.
TyTanium
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Good thread, thanks for starting.
I'm in the western burbs, but I'd imagine most people with city water have a similar profile:
34 Ca / 14 Mg / 8 Na / 18 Cl / 32 SO4 / 105 CaCO3
Overall great, soft brewing water. Remember, Milwaukee (Go Brewers!) is a historic brewing city with a rich German tradition...
I've had good results with simple additions: 1-3 grams CaCl, 1-3mL lactic acid to acidify the mash, and occasionally 1-2g of CaSO4; all style dependent.
As for chlorines / chloramines - last fall I called one of the treatment plants, and they said they're required by law to have a certain concentration of Cl at the farthest line out...which means, closer you are to the source, higher concentration of Cl. Most places use strictly CL2 gas. He said he wasn't aware of anyone using chloramines, but said some may in peak times.
Filtering removes chlorines, but to remove chloramines via filter it requires ~5mins on contact time with the carbon - not practical (filling brew kettle 1 drip at a time...)
I just add 1/2 a campden tablet, crushed, to my brewing water (usually 8-10 gallons) when I'm making my other additions - supposedly it zaps both instantly
Here's the City of Chicago water analysis:
http://www.cityofchicago.org/conten...ndreports/comprehensive_chemicalanalysis.html
And this thread from last summer is great:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f128/chcicago-lake-michigan-water-questions-249745/
I'm in the western burbs, but I'd imagine most people with city water have a similar profile:
34 Ca / 14 Mg / 8 Na / 18 Cl / 32 SO4 / 105 CaCO3
Overall great, soft brewing water. Remember, Milwaukee (Go Brewers!) is a historic brewing city with a rich German tradition...
I've had good results with simple additions: 1-3 grams CaCl, 1-3mL lactic acid to acidify the mash, and occasionally 1-2g of CaSO4; all style dependent.
As for chlorines / chloramines - last fall I called one of the treatment plants, and they said they're required by law to have a certain concentration of Cl at the farthest line out...which means, closer you are to the source, higher concentration of Cl. Most places use strictly CL2 gas. He said he wasn't aware of anyone using chloramines, but said some may in peak times.
Filtering removes chlorines, but to remove chloramines via filter it requires ~5mins on contact time with the carbon - not practical (filling brew kettle 1 drip at a time...)
I just add 1/2 a campden tablet, crushed, to my brewing water (usually 8-10 gallons) when I'm making my other additions - supposedly it zaps both instantly
Here's the City of Chicago water analysis:
http://www.cityofchicago.org/conten...ndreports/comprehensive_chemicalanalysis.html
And this thread from last summer is great:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f128/chcicago-lake-michigan-water-questions-249745/
Ok I bought some gypsum and some lactic acid for my IPA tonight.
I think 2 teaspoons of gypsum and depending on the mash pH lactic acid. Should I treat the sparge water with lactic acid to stain a specific pH?
I think 2 teaspoons of gypsum and depending on the mash pH lactic acid. Should I treat the sparge water with lactic acid to stain a specific pH?
TyTanium
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Fly or batch sparge? For batch sparge I don't think it matters, but for fly sparging I think you should acidify to keep pH low on the last runnings.
Edit: 2 tsp CaSO4 is ~ 8 grams...EZ water says that takes Ca to 80 and SO4 to 150? (Assuming ~10 gallons) Does that sound right?
Edit: 2 tsp CaSO4 is ~ 8 grams...EZ water says that takes Ca to 80 and SO4 to 150? (Assuming ~10 gallons) Does that sound right?
TyTanium said:
I have done both. I usually BIAB but I pull out the old keggle mash tun when my grain bill is 15# or more.
Which I have to use tonight, I was thinking of fly sparing. Another question, if I adjust the pH will it increase my efficiency?
TyTanium
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Not sure on efficiency - there are so many factors it's tough to isolate just one. I'd imagine you'd get better conversion, but I don't know.
8g CaSO4 seems like a lot to me, but I don't like bitterness. Calcium seems fine, but Sulfates seem high, esp. compared to the low Cl level....maybe go 4g CaSO4 and 4g CaCl2? Take what I say with a grain of salt (haha, good pun)...I don't understand enough of the chemistry to know what I'm talking about.
ajdelange knows his stuff...I refer to this often:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f128/brewing-water-chemistry-primer-198460/
8g CaSO4 seems like a lot to me, but I don't like bitterness. Calcium seems fine, but Sulfates seem high, esp. compared to the low Cl level....maybe go 4g CaSO4 and 4g CaCl2? Take what I say with a grain of salt (haha, good pun)...I don't understand enough of the chemistry to know what I'm talking about.
ajdelange knows his stuff...I refer to this often:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f128/brewing-water-chemistry-primer-198460/
TheMan said:
What do you like better about brunwater?
I thought ez water calc was confusing until I looked at brunwater. The thing is- there is no magic potion. You still have to have some knowledge of what different minerals/ salts do.
Mermaid
Well-Known Member
^^bump^^ I have city water, suburban Cook County (Schaumburg). Am going to start brewing again soon (as soon as it cools down a bit !) and was wondering if I need to treat for chloramines (my water report doesn't say there's chloramines.. but with city water.. one never knows).
Had to use a pH stabilizer (pH reducer) when I was on the east coast, as the water there was rock hard and loaded with chlorine and chloramines. What's the gH/kH like here? (I understand the pH is around 7.5 or so out of the tap?...I asked about the pH at a local aquarium store - as I'm into fishkeeping as well).
Had to use a pH stabilizer (pH reducer) when I was on the east coast, as the water there was rock hard and loaded with chlorine and chloramines. What's the gH/kH like here? (I understand the pH is around 7.5 or so out of the tap?...I asked about the pH at a local aquarium store - as I'm into fishkeeping as well).
TyTanium
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See my post above (#11)...your water in Schaumburg is probably almost identical to mine in Wheaton. Ours is not rock hard, thankfully.
Usually 1-3mL Lactic Acid puts me right where I need to be for mash pH. And 1-3g of CaCl2 and/or CaSO4 and that's it. I just hit my brewing water with 1/2 a campden, crushed, at the start of brewday to get rid of any chlorines/chloramines.
Usually 1-3mL Lactic Acid puts me right where I need to be for mash pH. And 1-3g of CaCl2 and/or CaSO4 and that's it. I just hit my brewing water with 1/2 a campden, crushed, at the start of brewday to get rid of any chlorines/chloramines.
