Checking gravity during Primary Fermentation

[Harbrook]

Hi, first brew, first question. I've been reading and researching and looking forward to getting to this stage.
I'm brewing a kit beer and the first days have gone well, initial fermentation was good and lots of bubbling from the airlock.
I'm going to leave it a good while before I think about the next step but I want to check the gravity over a few days to make sure its stable as the airlock has now stopped bubbling and although I know this is not an indication that fermentation has finished, I would like to learn as much as I can from this first brew and would like to keep an eye on the gravity while the beer evolves.
When I lift the lid to take a sample, can i just put the hydrometer in the bucket to take a reading or is it important to draw a sample and use the trial jar? I think the first option would be quicker and easier, but not sure if its bad practice?
thanks for your help in advance.
Darren.

 

[brewbama]

If you don't have a spigot to draw a sample from, I recommend you clean and sanitize a wine thief to draw a sample to test. I have to admit, when I started brewing in the 90(s) I'd float a hydrometer in the fermenter but I don't recommend it.

 

[IslandLizard]

Hi Darren, welcome to HBT and beer brewing!

It's best not to open the lid of a bucket until you're ready to bottle it. Your beer should be done in about a week. Leaving it another week is fine, often recommended as it can "condition out" a bit and give it time for most of the yeast to settle on the bottom.

Also, regardless of your recipe's instructions do not use a secondary. There is no need for those except in a few rare cases.

If you want to take a sample, while leaving the lid on, remove the airlock and snake a skinny hose (1/4"-5/16" OD) down that hole. You need about 2 feet of it. When it's about half way down into the bucket, start a siphon by sucking on the loose end until beer flows, and let it run into a small jug or container, like those pint or quart takeout containers for soup.

When enough beer has been collected, pull the hose out of the beer in one smooth motion, to prevent beer from flowing back. Replace airlock.

Sanitize the lid area around the airlock before you start working on it. A spray bottle with Starsan, or a small washcloth drenched in Starsan works great. Good sanitation is half of brewing.

Take a hydrometer reading and taste the sample. Make notes.

 

[IslandLizard]

The problem with removing the lid is 2-fold.

1. You would be exposing the beer wide and open to air and the environment, which potentially can cause infections. There are always bacteria and wild yeasts floating around, clinging to clothes, skin, etc. Anything could drop into that beer.

2. After fermentation the space in your bucket above your beer is rich in CO2, and low in oxygen. Removing the lid will blow all that away and fill it with air. This will cause some oxidation, especially over time, as the oxygen permeates the beer where it binds to "beer" molecules.

 

[Harbrook]

The problem with removing the lid is 2-fold.

1. You would be exposing the beer wide and open to air and the environment, which potentially can cause infections. There are always bacteria and wild yeasts floating around, clinging to clothes, skin, etc. Anything could drop into that beer.

2. After fermentation the space in your bucket above your beer is rich in CO2, and low in oxygen. Removing the lid will blow all that away and fill it with air. This will cause some oxidation, especially over time, as the oxygen permeates the beer where it binds to "beer" molecules.

Ok, So I've got a bit of a problem then..... oops.. 1st brew, silly mistakes!.
I've opened the lid a few times now... I guess this could be the why the airlock has stopped bubbling, The CO2 has all leaked out and fermentation has slowed so its not pressurising the void space enough.....
I've now checked the gravity and its down from 1.050 to 1.020 but needs to reach 1.012, so fermentation has a way to go....
I will leave it now for a good few days before i draw a sample as instructed in the previous reply..
any other advice for me?

 

[IslandLizard]

If and when you have to remove the lid, spray Starsan around the bottom of the rim area of the bucket and/or wipe those areas liberally with a small washcloth drenched in Starsan. Also spray/wipe the top of the lid. When prying up the lid, make sure your hands and forearms are clean, washed and sanitized. work quickly and diligently. Do not allow pets or kids to get near your open fermentor.

Again, good sanitation helps against infections.

 

[Harbrook]

If and when you have to remove the lid, spray Starsan around the bottom of the rim area of the bucket and/or wipe those areas liberally with a small washcloth drenched in Starsan. Also spray/wipe the top of the lid. When prying up the lid, make sure your hands and forearms are clean, washed and sanitized. work quickly and diligently. Do not allow pets or kids to get near your open fermentor.

Again, good sanitation helps against infections.

Im using Starsan in a spray gun for sanitising smaller bits and bobs. on the directions it states 15-25ml per 10litres of water..
I'm missing smaller batches at 1ml starsan per litre of water. Is that right?
thanks

 

[IslandLizard]

Ok, So I've got a bit of a problem then..... oops.. 1st brew, silly mistakes!.
I've opened the lid a few times now... I guess this could be the why the airlock has stopped bubbling, The CO2 has all leaked out and fermentation has slowed so its not pressurising the void space enough.....
I've now checked the gravity and its down from 1.050 to 1.020 but needs to reach 1.012, so fermentation has a way to go....
I will leave it now for a good few days before i draw a sample as instructed in the previous reply..
any other advice for me?

We've all been there, and we learn by making "silly" mistakes.

Lids are notorious for not sealing very well, and you're right, the CO2 production has slowed down considerably, so there won't be a lot of airlock activity. That doesn't mean the yeast is done working!

Put the fermentor in a warmer place, low 70s is good, to help her finish out the beer. Leave it there for a week, leaving the lid and sampling alone for that time. The beer may or may not get to your predicted FG of 1.012, it depends on lots of factors, mostly beyond your control at this point. make notes.

Again, do not rack to a "secondary" of any sort.

 

[Harbrook]

When enough beer has been collected, pull the hose out of the beer in one smooth motion, to prevent beer from flowing back. Replace airlock.

this may be a stupid question, but do you stop the syphon before you pull out the tube, or do you use the pulling out of the pipe in the smooth motion to stop the flow? which way would minimise flow back best?

 

[Harbrook]

We've all been there, and we learn by making "silly" mistakes.

Lids are notorious for not sealing very well, and you're right, the CO2 production has slowed down considerably, so there won't be a lot of airlock activity. That doesn't mean the yeast is done working!

Put the fermentor in a warmer place, low 70s is good, to help her finish out the beer. Leave it there for a week, leaving the lid and sampling alone for that time. The beer may or may not get to your predicted FG of 1.012, it depends on lots of factors, mostly beyond your control at this point. make notes.

Again, do not rack to a "secondary" of any sort.

Thank you again for taking the time to reply. If the beer doesn't reach its normal FG of 1.012, has the beer failed or will it still be ok to bottle and drink.
regards
Darren

 

[Harbrook]

Only other question was that you said that racking to a secondary was a big No No.. just want to check that its ok practice to syphon over to a bottling container for priming and bottling. it will only be in that container for the time it takes to bottle and prime..

 

[IslandLizard]

Im using Starsan in a spray gun for sanitising smaller bits and bobs. on the directions it states 15-25ml per 10litres of water..
I'm missing smaller batches at 1ml starsan per litre of water. Is that right?
thanks

Spraying Starsan is good and fast. I like mopping larger or thin surfaces though, like the inside walls of buckets, bucket rims, etc. I use both techniques, aside from dunking that is. I always have a 3.5 gallon bucket with 2 gallons of Starsan ready. Sometimes full 6 gallon buckets. The stuff works fine for weeks, even if it gets cloudy. Just cover and put out of harm's way if you have little ones or pets around.

Five Stars recommends 1 fl.oz per 5 U.S. gallons, which comes down to 1.6 ml per liter. Fill a syringe and squeeze out what you need, leaving the rest for next time.

 

[SmokeyMcBong]

Only other question was that you said that racking to a secondary was a big No No.. just want to check that its ok practice to syphon over to a bottling container for priming and bottling. it will only be in that container for the time it takes to bottle and prime.

I wouldn't go as far as saying that a secondary is "a big no no". Its more like personal preference. Most think its not a necessary step in the process anymore. I do either or, depending on circumstances.

Racking to a bottling bucket with priming sugar in it is a very good way of getting your carbonation sugar into the beer before bottling. Just siphon gently and avoid splashing...

 

[IslandLizard]

Only other question was that you said that racking to a secondary was a big No No.. just want to check that its ok practice to syphon over to a bottling container for priming and bottling. it will only be in that container for the time it takes to bottle and prime.

A bottling bucket is not a secondary. It will only be in there for an hour or less. Read up on siphoning without sucking air. Try it with a bucket of water to get some practice. Try having a second set of hands available when racking and bottling that batch. It's a fun job for 2.

Many kit instructions still have the "rack to secondary after xx days" embedded. This can be a major cause of "beer trouble" for unwitting, novice brewers, the exact same brewers many of those same kits are marketed to.

Racking to secondaries is an advanced technique, not difficult by itself, but takes some diligence and knowledge if, when, and how to do correctly, without defeating the whole purpose of it. Again, it's rarely necessary unless you do TRUE secondary fermentations like with sours, adding fruit, or long term bulk aging high gravity beers. Preventing excessive air/oxygen exposure during and after transfer is paramount if you want good beer in the end.

 

[PADave]

Also, don't be surprised if you don't go below 1.020. Read up on extracts and only getting to 1.020.

Sure your first brew is all new and you want to check things out, but the best thing to do is leave everything sealed up till bottling day.

 

[IslandLizard]

this may be a stupid question, but do you stop the syphon before you pull out the tube, or do you use the pulling out of the pipe in the smooth motion to stop the flow? which way would minimise flow back best?

Just pull the hose out of the grommet (airlock) hole, in one swift motion, without hesitation. That prevents the beer from running back. A skinny hose (1/4" OD) is better than a wider one (3/8" OD), as there is less chance for breaking the siphon and beer flowing back from the end your mouth has been. A larger OD hose also requires removing and later reinserting the rubber grommet...

You could start the siphon with a turkey baster, preferably dedicated to beer, as the one in your kitchen drawer is probably a hearth of infection. But you'll need to splice a few pieces of larger vinyl tubing together to get it to the size where the baster tippy fits inside. It's a lot of extra trouble, while the end results should be the same.

 

[Harbrook]

A bottling bucket is not a secondary. It will only be in there for an hour or less. Read up on siphoning without sucking air. Try it with a bucket of water to get some practice.

do you mean buying a auto syphon with a pump, or is it the technique where you fill the syphon tube with water first, tap one end and insert the other in to the beer? , I've tried googling, but not sure what I'm looking for...
Many thanks for you time, it is much appreciated!

 

[IslandLizard]

I wouldn't go as far as saying that a secondary is "a big no no". Its more like personal preference. Most think its not a necessary step in the process anymore. I do either or, depending on circumstances.

Racking to a bottling bucket with priming sugar in it is a very good way of getting your carbonation sugar into the beer before bottling. Just siphon gently and avoid splashing...

Secondaries are really not for beginning brewers. They're proven unnecessary, even detrimental in most cases (see the threads on infections and stalled beers) except those few I noted in a previous reply, and as you said, per personal preference. A beginning brewer really can't have developed one yet.

 

[SmokeyMcBong]

Secondaries are really not for beginning brewers. They're proven unnecessary, even detrimental in most cases (see the threads on infections and stalled beers) except those few I noted in a previous reply, and as you said, per personal preference. A beginning brewer really can't have developed one yet.

I don't disagree with most of what you're saying at all. There are reasons to use the secondary and reasons not to. I was just saying that its not "a big no no" Its a valuable tool for the brewer in a lot of situations. Its not as dangerous of an action as this forum would lead you to believe sometimes. I also agree that it's probably not the best thing to do on your first brew, as it adds another process to an already overwhelmed new brewer but to lead people to believe that its wrong and

even detrimental in most cases

Is very much like fear mongering. It is inarguable that it can be detrimental in some cases but not even close to most cases...

 

[IslandLizard]

do you mean buying a auto syphon with a pump, or is it the technique where you fill the syphon tube with water first, tap one end and insert the other in to the beer? , I've tried googling, but not sure what I'm looking for...
Many thanks for you time, it is much appreciated!

Sure, use an auto siphon if you want or already have one.

Yes, the other method is with a prefilled tube. Using one of those siphon clippies on the side of the bucket helps to keep the siphon in place somewhat (but not very well).

Having a tight clamp on the bottom end of the tubing or a small (rubber) stopper in it is also handy, while you fiddle around with the cane and tubing.

I've learned to use my stainless racking cane from the beginning, and it's now hard to imagine going back to anything else. But it's a bit of a learning curve. Hence, get the procedure down and your hands wet with a bucket of water.

 

[PurpleJeepXJ]

It is by all means possible to pull a reading but all readings from the fermenter will be off if using a hydrometer. The CO2 released by the yeast will screw with the readings. Only way to get a true reading from an active fermentation is to draw a sample and cold crash the yeast. Pour off the liquid minus the yeast and let warm to room temp. Then take reading.

 

[IslandLizard]

even detrimental in most cases

Is very much like fear mongering. It is inarguable that it can be detrimental is some cases but not even close to most cases...

Oh no, not my intention to monger fear, brewing is a wonderful hobby, and it takes one to all kinds of interesting places, from wet shoes to secondaries.

With "most" I was referring to the number of beers brewed all around the world including homebrewers'. "Most" never go through a secondary fermentation because they don't need one. I'm not talking bright or lagering tanks here, or adding dry hops, spices, lemon zest, etc.

 

[IslandLizard]

It is by all means possible to pull a reading but all readings from the fermenter will be off if using a hydrometer. The CO2 released by the yeast will screw with the readings. Only way to get a true reading from an active fermentation is to draw a sample and cold crash the yeast. Pour off the liquid minus the yeast and let warm to room temp. Then take reading.

You can get the dissolved CO2 out by shaking, stirring, or just let it sit for a few hours.

 

[PurpleJeepXJ]

You can get the dissolved CO2 out by shaking, stirring, or just let it sit for a few hours.

It is constantly making new CO2...

 

[PADave]

It is constantly making new CO2...

How, if it's done fermenting?

 

[PurpleJeepXJ]

If it is done fermenting then yes of course it is accurate. But doesn't the OP say during fermentation? I may be wrong.