Cheapest Electric Setup

[broadbill]

Also for the record I use a HWD element in my Counter-top Brutus and I haven't ever scorched wort before.

 

[ZmannR2]

M

You don't want the td4,mypin has a different one with manual mode eliminating the adjustment knob you listed.

From what um reading in the reviews. The td4 has manual mode

 

[JONNYROTTEN]

The one I ordered is the ta4. Should I cancel?

I think I confused the 2,sorry about that. Now I'm rushing to get the correct info.In a quick look to correct myself it looks like the TD4 is the one with manual mode and the Ta4 doesn't. Do a quick search before you cancel.

 

[augiedoggy]

I think I confused the 2,sorry about that. Now I'm rushing to get the correct info.In a quick look to correct myself it looks like the TD4 is the one with manual mode and the Ta4 doesn't. Do a quick search before you cancel.

The TD4 is the one with manual mode not the ta4...

 

[augiedoggy]

So just to be clear, the rectifier is needed so that the pid/ssr isn't turning on and off a full boar load? Like why have a need to dial it back if the relay is cutting it off automatically?

If your using a mypin td4 with and SSR and temp probe that scr unit is not needed... its an alternative for manual mode only to control the element like a knob on a stove.. With the scr you dont have the ability to set a certain temp and hold it there automatically which you may or may not want depending on how you plan to brew...

 

[ZmannR2]

Ok I see. I did switch to the td4 w/manual control. I'll cancel the scr

 

[Firewalker11]

Ok I see. I did switch to the td4 w/manual control. I'll cancel the scr

Here is the scoop on the manual mode. You hit boil and drop the temp to keep it from over boiling, the boil stops so you bring it up again, it hits the boil and the hot break shoots up over the pot lip.

The SCR is for instant boil control, a cooler SSR and better control of a hard boil. These guys are mad-wizards at the manual control on their PIDs but I'm not and like the infinite control of a SCR over a boil over any day of the week. :rockin:

 

[JONNYROTTEN]

Here is the scoop on the manual mode. You hit boil and drop the temp to keep it from over boiling, the boil stops so you bring it up again, it hits the boil and the hot break shoots up over the pot lip.

The SCR is for instant boil control, a cooler SSR and better control of a hard boil. These guys are mad-wizards at the manual control on their PIDs but I'm not and like the infinite control of a SCR over a boil over any day of the week. :rockin:

This has never happened to me once. Theres only 3 times I touch the PID the entire brew day:

Set to mash temp
After mash out set to 100% power on manual mode
Set to 75% when Boil starts to gat a rolling boil.
Never had an issue

 

[augiedoggy]

This has never happened to me once. Theres only 3 times I touch the PID the entire brew day:

Set to mash temp
After mash out set to 100% power on manual mode
Set to 75% when Boil starts to gat a rolling boil.
Never had an issue

I do the same only I use auto mode to get to 207 degrees with alarm so I dont have to babysit.

 

[wilserbrewer]

I find this kinda funny, the "cheapest electric setup" thread has turned into a discussion on PID management. Lol

Kinda like economy car and how much boost for turbo optimization, and ceramic brake upgrade.

 

[JONNYROTTEN]

If you REALLY want to go cheap theres always this...And yes I built one for the fun of it.Cooked me some ham and eggs..and melt pennies...and lit a fire..and so on..and so on....

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vOj4Cauvhqc[/ame]

 

[mabrungard]

A 5500w ultra low watt density heating element and a 40 amp SSR coupled with one of these controllers: http://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=2_30&products_id=444 will work very well. That will work at either 240v or 120v.

If you can implement 240v, you will be impressed with how quickly you can bring your wort to boil. However, you don't need nearly that much power to maintain a boil. The controller unit is necessary in any case. I have one of those units and it is slick!

 

[augiedoggy]

Here is the scoop on the manual mode. You hit boil and drop the temp to keep it from over boiling, the boil stops so you bring it up again, it hits the boil and the hot break shoots up over the pot lip.

The SCR is for instant boil control, a cooler SSR and better control of a hard boil. These guys are mad-wizards at the manual control on their PIDs but I'm not and like the infinite control of a SCR over a boil over any day of the week. :rockin:

I dont really agree here... When in manual mode and you set the pid to say 75% on our mypins that means than the element is only on for 75% of each second...(unlike auber pids where the minimum cycle time is supposedly 2 seconds) anyway I have brewed over 65 times on my setup and the only boilover was last week when I had company and we brewed an IPA... we had a foam over when adding the 60 min hops and didnt see it till it boiled over.. normally you can just flip the element off for a few seconds to let the foam clear and then resume heating again.

The manual pwm mode on a pid has just as much control (more actually with a repeatable digital readout you dont get with an scr unless you add more hardware.)

 

[augiedoggy]

I find this kinda funny, the "cheapest electric setup" thread has turned into a discussion on PID management. Lol

Kinda like economy car and how much boost for turbo optimization, and ceramic brake upgrade.

They always do... I believe part of the reason is you often have people who may not actually know the pros and cons / advantages and disadvantages of control vs just on and off and 240v vs 120v... I would think the people who ask these questions might value the feedback from others who have different setups or may have already started at the bottom and worked their way up to something faster with more control. or gone from something with more control to something more simple because they never used it.

Sometimes the Cheapest may not be the right move and someone may not realize the tradeoffs or on the flipside someone might be thinking what is a pid and why would I want one or not need one? if the OP wants to recirculate and control mash temps the cheapest option is not the same as just wanting to achieve a steady boil.

Plus everyone likes to weight in with their opinion and why they have it...

 

[augiedoggy]

The controller unit is necessary in any case.

This statement might be confusing. Its totally unnecessary in the case of 120v as others have mentioned unless you want to control specific temps other than a boil. As others have pointed out in this thread.

 

[wilserbrewer]

The controller unit is necessary in any case. I have one of those units and it is slick!

I will take it a step further and say 120 or 240 can both be done without a controller by simply matching element size to required wattage at boil.

I add this in that I think many more would be using electric if they only knew how simple it can be.

Approx 3000w total for 5 gallon batches, and 4000w for 10 gallon batches.

 

[mabrungard]

I will take it a step further and say 120 or 240 can both be done without a controller by simply matching element size to required wattage at boil.

I guess it could be done crudely without a controller, but I've found that having the ability to more closely manage the power input to the observed boil intensity is welcome. Given that element wattage varies in steps of around 1000 watts, I'm not hopeful that matching wattage to batch size is the best (or even acceptable) way to go.

In addition, I can tell everyone that having the capability to hit the wort with a lot of watts is handy for bringing the kettle to a boil more quickly. I'll stick with my original recommendation for brewers to incorporate as much power as their electrical supply will allow and also include a controller to fine tune their boil vigor.

Being cheap does not always pay off.

 

[ZmannR2]

So at 75% manual mode the controller will simply pick up the relay 75% of the time? Interesting

 

[ZmannR2]

Btw I bought the Td-4 and an Auber SYL-2352. Gonna decide which one is better and return the other

 

[ZmannR2]

A 5500w ultra low watt density heating element and a 40 amp SSR coupled with one of these controllers: http://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=2_30&products_id=444 will work very well. That will work at either 240v or 120v.

If you can implement 240v, you will be impressed with how quickly you can bring your wort to boil. However, you don't need nearly that much power to maintain a boil. The controller unit is necessary in any case. I have one of those units and it is slick!

Damn! I wish I had seen this before ordering the PID. Seems like a great choice

 

[doug293cz]

A 5500w ultra low watt density heating element and a 40 amp SSR coupled with one of these controllers: http://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=2_30&products_id=444 will work very well. That will work at either 240v or 120v.

If you can implement 240v, you will be impressed with how quickly you can bring your wort to boil. However, you don't need nearly that much power to maintain a boil. The controller unit is necessary in any case. I have one of those units and it is slick!

Auber has a newer version of that controller that has a temp hold function in addition to the linear power set function. http://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=560 They don't call it a PID but it performs the same function. It also has a "race to boil" then back off to pre-set power function, and a boil timer.

Brew on

 

[augiedoggy]

Auber has a newer version of that controller that has a temp hold function in addition to the linear power set function. http://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=560 They don't call it a PID but it performs the same function. It also has a "race to boil" then back off to pre-set power function, and a boil timer.

Brew on

Ok now ill be the one to say it... The title of this thread is the cheapest Electric setup... You might have confused it with the most expensive?
your link is down for maintenance but.
I hardly consider a single pid/element controllers they sell for over $800 shipped cheap! (or reasonable but thats just my opinion) one could buy the alternative components elswhere and builda controller with all the exact functionalily for about $150-200 if they built it themselves.

 

[augiedoggy]

So at 75% manual mode the controller will simply pick up the relay 75% of the time? Interesting

Yes 75% of the cycle time setting which on a mypin can be as little as 1 second (on .75, off .25 of each second) and from what I'm told, limited to a 2 second minimum cycle time on the auber so you may possibly not see quite as smooth of a boil with an auber pid. (meaning 75% on an auber would be on 1.25 seconds then off .75 then on 1.25 ect) That and apparently its more complicated to switch to manual mode because many put in an ssvr and pot with a switch to switch over to the knob control instead of using the built in pwm mode on the auber units...

 

[wilserbrewer]

I guess it could be done crudely without a controller, but I've found that having the ability to more closely manage the power input to the observed boil intensity is welcome. Given that element wattage varies in steps of around 1000 watts, I'm not hopeful that matching wattage to batch size is the best (or even acceptable) way to go.

In addition, I can tell everyone that having the capability to hit the wort with a lot of watts is handy for bringing the kettle to a boil more quickly. I'll stick with my original recommendation for brewers to incorporate as much power as their electrical supply will allow and also include a controller to fine tune their boil vigor.

Being cheap does not always pay off.

You really should let the people over at Grainfather know that you are not hopeful that matching wattage to batch size is the best (or even acceptable) way to go. The Grainfather w/ only 2000w operates at 100% power to produce a boil, same premise I proposed for the "Cheapest Electric Setup" concept of this thread.

They seem to be selling a sh$t load of them to many happy users who are boiling away "crudely" without a boil controller, with just a switch to full power labeled "boil". The Grainfather is not cheap at all, yet functions well with only the power needed to produce a boil, no more. While the Grainfather has a controller, it is not used to control the boil vigor, but rather just run at 100% to boil.

Yes, I agree with you, having a large amount of power with the ability to regulate it is indeed better, but that is not the point of this thread.

 

[ZmannR2]

Auber has a newer version of that controller that has a temp hold function in addition to the linear power set function. http://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=560 They don't call it a PID but it performs the same function. It also has a "race to boil" then back off to pre-set power function, and a boil timer.

Brew on

Ok after much reading and research I've decided to return all items I've purchased and buy this instead. Looks like exactly what I need coupled with an SSR and a stainless 240V ripple element. Total seems to be about $75 not including the pot and possible a pump for circulation

 

[augiedoggy]

Ok after much reading and research I've decided to return all items I've purchased and buy this instead. Looks like exactly what I need coupled with an SSR and a stainless 240V ripple element. Total seems to be about $75 not including the pot and possible a pump for circulation

Since the link was down at the time I thought he was commenting on the new controllers auber is selling assembled and not just the pwm control module.
I guess you could do it for $75... You still need a heatsink an enclosure not to mention an element and wiring and outlets/connectors ... then some sort of enclosure for the element wiring... I think it might end up being a little more depending on what you buy... I would go with this element since cost is a concern. It has a stainless base that will not rust unlike the regular water heating ripple elements.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Dernord-240...743480?hash=item3f5ac42478:g:qt0AAOSwUV9WmK7m

I used these on a build which also saved a lot over nema connectors,
http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-5mm-Dia-3...587280?hash=item4adbc34490:g:aOAAAOSwT6pVlVu1

 

[doug293cz]

Auber has a newer version of that controller that has a temp hold function in addition to the linear power set function. http://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=560 They don't call it a PID but it performs the same function. It also has a "race to boil" then back off to pre-set power function, and a boil timer.

Brew on

Ok now ill be the one to say it... The title of this thread is the cheapest Electric setup... You might have confused it with the most expensive?
your link is down for maintenance but.
I hardly consider a single pid/element controller for over $800 shipped cheap! (or reasonable but thats just my opinion) one could buy the alternative components elswhere and builda controller with all the exact functionalily for about $150-200 if they built it themselves.

The controller I linked to is $46.95. Far cry from $800. It's a single component that will do the job of a PID + DSPR1 or SSVR (mash temp control + knob for boil power control.) A configuration of interest to many. Not the absolute cheapest way to go, but cost effective for the functionality.

Brew on

 

[augiedoggy]

The controller I linked to is $46.95. Far cry from $800. It's a single component that will do the job of a PID + DSPR1 or SSVR (mash temp control + knob for boil power control.) A configuration of interest to many. Not the absolute cheapest way to go, but cost effective for the functionality.

Brew on

Again the link was down this morning for maintenance. I thought you were linking their newer pre built controllers http://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=8&products_id=539
Not just the bare pwm control module. ..Honest mistake, and big difference.

 

[ZmannR2]

Since the link was down at the time I thought he was commenting on the new controllers auber is selling assembled and not just the pwm control module.
I guess you could do it for $75... You still need a heatsink an enclosure not to mention an element and wiring and outlets/connectors ... then some sort of enclosure for the element wiring... I think it might end up being a little more depending on what you buy... I would go with this element since cost is a concern. It has a stainless base that will not rust unlike the regular water heating ripple elements.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Dernord-240...743480?hash=item3f5ac42478:g:qt0AAOSwUV9WmK7m

I used these on a build which also saved a lot over nema connectors,
http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-5mm-Dia-3...587280?hash=item4adbc34490:g:aOAAAOSwT6pVlVu1

Thanks, ya I bought an aluminum 1/16th DIN enclosure that can act as the heat sink for the SSR as well. It was $21. And I bought this element on Amazon:

240v 5500w Ripple White Stainless Steel Water Heating Element Instant Immersion Heater https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01B4L1Q4W/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

I work for the power company so I have tons of access to all kinds of wire. Just need a plug I guess

 

[cbier60]

I would go with this element since cost is a concern. It has a stainless base that will not rust unlike the regular water heating ripple elements.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Dernord-240...743480?hash=item3f5ac42478:g:qt0AAOSwUV9WmK7m

And I bought this element on Amazon:

240v 5500w Ripple White Stainless Steel Water Heating Element Instant Immersion Heater https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01B4L1Q4W/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

Can you confirm that these elements are 100% stainless? I know Brew Hardware carries all stainless elements like this one. I just want to be sure that these suggested elements are basically equivalent, since it's the base that often rusts.