[Challenge:] Alternative Boiling Methods:

[maztec]

I am looking for all the different ways that a 5g-10g boil can be done. Both in terms of heating supply (and requirements) and in equipment.

The following is the list I have found so far - and I am looking for any that anyone else is aware of or can think of - that are hopefully not just permutations of each other, but some are:

• Solar Kettle
• Propane/Natural Gas (P/NG) Burner & Kettle
• P/NG Gas Stovetop & Kettle
• P/NG Burner & Keggle
• P/NG BrewMagic
• Electric Burner/Stovetop & Kettle
• Induction Burner/Stovetop & Kettle
• P/NG Groen Gas Kettle
• Electric Boiler - Pritchard
• Electric Bruheat/etc

--

Why am I asking? I am in a frustrating position. I bought a townhouse and between the HOA, crappy stove design, and garage setup . . . I just am not finding anything that satisfies both me and SWMBO in order to allow me to brew. I am a week in and frustrated, wanting to brew with all the space I have now, and lacking only one combination of items: HEAT, VAPOR EXHAUST, PROPER HEAT SOURCE. I am going nuts, I have setup for part of each of these, but nothing that covers everything I need, and I Want To Brew. In fact, because of the move, and everything else going on, I haven't been able to brew up a batch in two months, and I am seriously frustrated.

Any help, links, and pointing out of all my options would be great. I am at the point of thinking outside the box. Now, before you ask, "Well, you could brew outside the home, or just go buy a propane tank": I am going to say that (1) I really really do not want to go propane [will if I absolutely have to], (2) do not want to brew outside the home - it rains too much, (3) and if I am going to spend more than $300 on equipment I may as well set the sky as the limit and get something that does everything I need. Thus, my search for options - I want to be fully informed before I settle on something, all prices - cheap to outrageously expensive - are welcome. If you want to suggest using a jet engine under a keggle - have at it, but the more outrageous the more you are required to show pics to prove it is doable.

Thanks!

- M

 

[DeafSmith]

For the heat source, I think you could get a good boil with a combination of the stove, one or two heatsticks, and insulation on the brew kettle. The vapor control will be tougher if you don't have an exhaust fan which exhausts to the outside. Maybe you could rig up some flexible plastic ducting with the opening over or next to your kettle and a fan on the other end exhausting to the outside through a window. You might have to disguise the exhaust so as not to get in trouble with the HOA.

See this thread for info on heatsticks:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f51/heatstick-awesome-142803/#post1624095

 

[Zen_Brew]

Well to the more untraditional and outrageous suggestions side I would add steam systems.
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f51/yuri-goes-big-steam-new-boiler-point-use-water-heater-125953/

Also here is a member working up a system that sits on multiple electric stove elements.
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f51/alternative-electric-solution-144016/

There are several incarnations of self contained all electric kettles and brew systems. Here are just a couple.
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f11/new-10-gallon-herms-pics-76773/

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f51/countertop-brutus-20-a-131411/

Most of those systems require a good deal of time and money to get up and running. Certainly the propane tank and burner is the simplest option. I live in Seattle. Rains all the time. I live in a condo/townhouse, but I have a 6' x 10'
coverred patio that I brew on with my propane tank.

You could also use your stove and give it an assist on the boil with an electric heat stick you insert into the pot. There is a world of very creative people in here, and you'd be amazed the solutions they have come up with.

 

[BargainFittings]

What is your setup in the garage? What sort of breakers? Access to water and sewage?

Tell us about what limits you have in each area.

 

[maztec]

Stove limit: Burners, 8,000 BTU, exhaust is placed 15" above top of stove. Not enough clearance for my brew pan. Plus, I am pretty sure the stove will cave in with 40lb of water on top. There is an island, but it has no exhaust. I have thought of installing a heating unit on/in it, but over the years I would be steaming the paint directly above it on the ceiling.

Garage: Has a small exhaust over the hot water heater at the back of the garage for venting the hot water heater and car exhaust. Has a natural gas line right next to the hot water heater that could be used. Has a water outlet that goes just outside the garage - but not inside. Garage is the bottom floor. There is no drain or sewage line from the bottom floor/garage. Garage ceiling is unpainted, bare drywall ... steam would go straight into it.

And SWMBO is afraid of me tapping into the gas line, using propane, and steaming the ceiling into oblivion.

Thus, attempts to get inventive.

 

[Boerderij_Kabouter]

I think electric is the best for your situation. Depending on how big of batches you need, 120 and a couple heat sticks can get you wherever you need to go.

You may take a look at the 2P-Twent-E and Simple breweries in my sig. I think those systems would be awesome for an apartment/townhouse where space is limited. In fact, that is where the design started!

 

[jrfuda]

I know you said you don't want to do it outside, but do you have a covered back porch/balcony? If so, that's a compromise between in and out (though HOA may say no flame sources, and you said you're not crazy about propane).

Have you considered painting the garage ceiling? Can you make a mobile exhaust hood that you can vent towards the garage's existing vent? If SWMBO is really worried about tapping into the gas line, you could hire a pro to do it for you just to ease her mind... have the pro create some sort of connection that you can connect a NG burner using a flexible propane-tank-to-grill like hose. Add a CO and gas detector as well to further ease her mind. The only issue remaining if you did these things would be water and clean-up, for which you'd have to haul your gear around to the water/drain source.

Alternately, what abut having an electrician install a dedicated 220V outlet in the garage (again, HOA restrictions may be in play). You'd still want to paint the ceiling to be safe, but that would solve the gas leak concerns.

Speaking of painting. I cannot stand when houses have bare walls in the garage; drives me crazy. I painted the walls and ceiling of my garage the first week I moved into the house. Of topic some more.... but just a little We also park BOTH cars and a motorcycle in the garage, and still have room to store a ton of stuff (I installed over $700 worth of shelving in the garage to accommodate all our stuff) and out garage is not big. I have issue with people disrespecting garages and using them as big storage rooms. I can still move the cars out and use it as a workshop when I need to. OK, done venting about garages, I return you to your regularly scheduled topic...

Back on topic now...

If none of these or the other suggestions will work, you may be stuck scaling back to partial boils with 5-gallon batch sizes and doing them on your stove top.

 

[CodeRage]

You'rte going to have a vapor problem no mater where you go unless you are out side so that is something that needs to be addressed period.

Where do you want to brew? Inside, outside? is the garage a good compromise? Can always brew by the garage door.

Do you want your power source to be electric or gas?

You need to answer these questions before you an come up with something you are happy with.

With that said,
This is a little outside of the box but bare with me.

The Green Monti's steam boiler is 6 kinds of bad ass to Sunday. But, it is gas which doesn't appeal to you. Yuri has built an electric steam generating pressure vessels using a corny. I wonder if the boiler principal can be applied to a larger steam vessel like a sanke.

Pressurized and stored steam can store ALOT of power, enough that if you leave a 1500W element running for some time, you can build up your heat source before brewing.
I don't even know if it will be possible to boil with a setup like this. Kladue would be the guy to ask. To build something like this though takes great attention to detail, no cutting corners, and topnotch workmanship. A pressure vessel that size can take out your whole duplex if something went horribly wrong.

 

[CodeRage]

The more I think about it, the counter top brutus sounds like your ticket.

 

[MrH]

Ok, don't blame me, you threw out the challenge...

It sounds like the real problem you're having is the fact that you have SWMBO. Maybe you should just find a more accommodating mate.

Just sayin'

MrH

Erm, since you're not likely to do that, I'll have to agree with CodeRage. Actually the 2P-Twent-E Boerderij_Kabouter made would be really kick-ass for a condo.

 

[maztec]

I think I am going to whip out the paint, paint the garage, and plug into natural gas.

Anyone have a particular paint they recommend for the garage? And should I use a primer with that or not, if so any recommendations?

Then, get the gas detectors, and look at building a vent that exhausts out the garage door area.


As for going outside - (a) rain, (b) neighbor said he brewed outside for a while, but the HOA started to complain.

 

[Sawdustguy]

I think I am going to whip out the paint, paint the garage, and plug into natural gas.

Anyone have a particular paint they recommend for the garage? And should I use a primer with that or not, if so any recommendations?

Then, get the gas detectors, and look at building a vent that exhausts out the garage door area.


As for going outside - (a) rain, (b) neighbor said he brewed outside for a while, but the HOA started to complain.

Man you have everything against you. I feel bad to say this but it sounds like between your HOA and SWMBO and once your next door neighbor detects you are brewing in your garage with gas you are screwed. Maybe try small batch extract brewing on your stove?

 

[northernlad]

Why not brew in the garage with the door open?
Ventilation, covered head.

 

[ScubaSteve]

Screw the HOA. If I can help it, I will NEVER again live in a community with HOA. They can be useful, but most times you're paying an association a large monthly sum to over-regulate your activities. FWIW, HOA usually covers and controls everything OUTSIDE your residence. You require a lot less permission to make changes to the interior. Tacky countertops and knocking out walls may be forbidden, but getting 220 in your garage is a reasonable modification...and will add to the marketability of your home. FWIW, with NG/Propane you will have to brew with the garage door open....and with 220 you can keep it closed on windy/cold days and play music without people complaining.....plus you can use the outlet for a host of other stuff. I say go with 220, you won't be sorry!

 

[maztec]

Reread the HOA rules, it says nothing about (a) gas in the garage, and (b) voltage in the garage. Yay! It just doesn't want me starting an ungodly "smelly" fire on the front lawn. And, apparently that rule came into existence due to the guy who lived here before me, who brewed (I have yet to figure out how he brewed when in the house, I am beginning to think he did small batch - which would require me to buy new equipment), and had burnt a hole in the front lawn and left his uncleaned gear on it for weeks.

I actually think I might have a 220 in the garage, but at the moment SWMBO has it behind unpacking boxes. I just had read that using the drop-in-sticks or whatever they are called can sometimes burn the sugars and ruin a brew.

Ran into this, way outside my rpice range, but cool: http://www.brewmation.com/Brewery.html

 

[CodeRage]

I actually think I might have a 220 in the garage, but at the moment SWMBO has it behind unpacking boxes. I just had read that using the drop-in-sticks or whatever they are called can sometimes burn the sugars and ruin a brew.

Completely unfounded and untrue.

 

[Jumbo82]

Ran into this, way outside my rpice range, but cool: http://www.brewmation.com/Brewery.html

I have two setups made by him. I'm pretty sure its a one man show, but the guy does good work. The first system I bought was two heating elements connected to a control panel which I retrofitted to my 15 gallon kettle. Then I upgraded and got a bigger system for doing electric 1 bbl batches (search Squam Brewery for pictures). His site mostly shows his prefab stuff, but he will make just about anything custom for you too. Just keep in mind, the more stuff you are willing to make/do yourself the cheaper it will be. For my one barrel system, the heating elements and control panel from him were under a thousand bucks, so I just had to buy a 55 gallon kettle to be up and running. I'm not saying that's cheap, but its a lot cheaper than the $4,200 he quotes for a fully automated 15 gallon system.

 

[maztec]

Completely unfounded and untrue.

I think the idea was that if you turned the heating sticks on before putting in liquid, the liquid would scald when it hit, which makes sense, but you shouldn't do that anyway.

 

[maztec]

I just came past this setup:
http://www.theelectricbrewery.com/node/9?page=show

Has anyone here tried it? It looks like a good candidate to me. Except that the Blichmann Kettles are outrageously expensive, but may be worth it. Only problem is if I ever go to another fuel source, I have an expensive kettle with a hole in its bottom!