Carbonation causing color change?

[cegan09]

So I've noticed lately that my beer is changing visually as it spends time in the bottle. Let me lay out the observations.

3 batches of the same beer, all the same recipie, followed the same steps, etc. Beer is the northeast IPA from this thread: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=568046

When the beer is new (within a week of going into the bottle) it is a bright hazy yellow/orange. However the longer it sits in the bottle the more it darkens up, ending more brown and murky than anything. The taste doesn't seem to be changed, it's still good.

Now the reason I leaned toward carbonation being the driver. I have a mix of purchased bottles and saved commercial bottles. Recently I noticed that my capper doesn't seem to like the shorter fatter bottles (think sierra nevada) If I don't adjust it some it doesn't give a good solid crimp. Last night I poured two bottles side by side. One tall bottle that had good carbonation, and one short that did not (no hiss when the cap came off). Both are the same age, from the same batch, etc. The tall bottle poured brown. The short bottle was still a nice bright dark yellow.

Both tasted the same (minus the short bottle not really being carb'd). So i'm not worried there. I'm just trying to understand the reason for the color shift, and if it's something that can be combated.


I'll try to find good pictures tonight to show the difference.

 

[lilbova3]

Sounds like oxygenation.

Not properly capping will cause that or an improper transfer can cause it too. Throw away the short squatty bottles and just use long necks. I'm surprised you say the flavor doesn't change. When that happens to a few of my bottles I notice a darker color and muddled flavor. Kind of a sweetness with some bitter but no hop flavor.

Us bottlers are always fighting oxygen getting into our beer.

 

[cegan09]

But the beers changing color are the ones in the properly sealed tall bottles. The ones staying bright are in the shorter not completely sealed bottles. That's what's throwing me. All bottles got the same oxygen exposure.

 

[dwhite60]

Both are the same age, from the same batch, etc. The tall bottle poured brown. The short bottle was still a nice bright dark yellow.

Was the short bottle contents clearer than the tall bottle?

I think you're getting some settling of finer particles once it's bottled and carbonates. They actually make the beer look lighter than it really is.

It's pretty much normal.

All the Best,
D. White

 

[cegan09]

I opened two more bottles last night and took pictures. This was the best lighting to get it close to true appearance with the camera. The color difference is still a bit more pronounced in real live vs pictures. Same deal, shorter bottle with a worse cap seal poured closer to the color right from the fermenter. The taller better sealed bottle is much darker.

Both bottles have the same non-excessive layer of sediment on the bottom. Honestly the only thing I can figure is different between the two is the cap seal and resulting carbonation.

 

[lilbova3]

How old are the beers? You said they both taste ok, right? The only other thing I could think of is some type of infection...? Which one is properly carbed you think? Were short bottles filled first or last? How much priming sugar did you use and how much beer was bottled? Lots of questions!

I'm stumped.

 

[cegan09]

data dump. Batch was bottled May 15th, so just over 3 weeks now?

The tall bottles are capped fully, and have more carbonation, and are the ones changing color.
The short bottles are the one I need to adjust my capper for, and are carbing less, and aren't changing.
To clarify the cap thing. The tall bottles get an indent on the top from the capper. The short don't. I'm using a standard two hand wing capper. Taller bottles give the normal pressure hiss when opened. The short ones give significantly less.

Short bottles were filled randomly. I didn't do all of one first, I just grabbed off the bottle tree at random. So I have data points from early fill, late fill, etc.

just over 3 gallons was bottled, and I primed with table sugar aiming for 2.6 volumes of CO2 (calculator says in the region of 2.8oz sugar).

It all tastes fine, just the tall bottles have more carbonation, so flavor changes slightly to reflect that. Otherwise same aroma, same taste. Slightly different mouth-feel because of carbonation.

 

[freisste]

Maybe there is too much oxygen present in the headspace when you cap. This actually allows some of the newly-created CO2 to purge the headspace and thus avoid oxidation? Kind of a guess.

Wait a few weeks (leaving them out so they are warmer and age faster) to potentially further highlight the difference in taste between the two. Like put a tall and a short in a closet for a month, then chill for a few days and serve side-by-side. Taste then to see if there is more of an oxidized flavor. You may be missing the oxidized flavor early because it isn't strong enough to overpower the taste of hops in an IPA.

For the record, I've had a great IPA look just like your tall bottle version after a few weeks. It definitely got the musty cardboard flavor later. I have stopped cold crashing in the fermenter after reading some other threads on this forum. (Not enough batches to say it avoids oxidation better.)

 

[lilbova3]

Personally I have found carbing to 2.5 vol or higher didn't work great for bottle conditioned beer. But that could just be me. I like freisste's idea to wait a little longer. I think you might start to see a difference. But am still baffled that the short ones aren't darkening faster/at all compared to a properly capped one.

 

[jr72023]

But am still baffled that the short ones aren't darkening faster/at all compared to a properly capped one.

Me too. Is there a difference in the color of the bottles or composition?

 

[A2HB]

Recently I noticed that my capper doesn't seem to like the shorter fatter bottles (think sierra nevada) If I don't adjust it some it doesn't give a good solid crimp.

I had this exact same issue and had to start using only the tall bottles or my liter swing tops for bottling. Those wing cappers do not like the short stubby types for some reason, and I had a few too many drain pours due to lack of carbonation so I just decided to only use the taller ones and save the headache. Unfortunately most of the commercial beers I really like come in those stubbys so I can't reuse them.

 

[freisste]

I had this exact same issue and had to start using only the tall bottles or my liter swing tops for bottling. Those wing cappers do not like the short stubby types for some reason, and I had a few too many drain pours due to lack of carbonation so I just decided to only use the taller ones and save the headache. Unfortunately most of the commercial beers I really like come in those stubbys so I can't reuse them.

Ditch your capper. Never tried a stubby bottle before switching to a bench capper, but a couple broken bottle necks was enough for me...

 

[thedon986]

I noticed my Red Baron capper will not seal on the short, fat bottles so I don't use those at all. I have never broken a bottle neck and that is the only issue I have had with my capper so I just don't use those bottles. No idea why the color is changing in the taller bottles though. Odd.

 

[cegan09]

Me too. Is there a difference in the color of the bottles or composition?

No, they're the same color, best I can tell by eye. All the short bottles are either reclaimed Sierra Nevada or Allagash. Tall bottles are a mix of purchased new bottles or reclaimed commercial.

They're all filled as similar as I can. Cheap filler wand, let it fill right to the top then remove and that's your head space. I guess technically the tall bottles would have a little bit more since more of the wand is in those bottles, I hadn't considered that until just now.

I'll take the suggestion and put two bottles aside for a few more weeks and see what happens.