Carbonating by the bottle

[MT2sum]

I've got 5 gallons of Apfelwein and 5 gallons of Cran-Apfpplewein brewing right now, and I intend to keg each of them as still wine, becuz we will be taking a trip out of state that may last a month to 6 month (as yet undecided). I'd like to see what a sparkling wine would be like of each of them, so since I brew beer, I figure I can save out a 22 oz. bomber of each one and carbonate it as we travel for 5 or 6 days. Not that I'm going to open it right away, I figure on ageing it for a couple of weeks or a month, after we get to our destination. The still wine will be aged in the keg for a couple more months.

My question is; has anyone bottled some wine in these large beer bottles and how much priming sugar (honey) would be appropriate/safe to add to each 22 oz. bottle? Also, would I be better off using 12 oz. beer bottles instead, and if so, what would be a appropriate/safe priming rate for a 12 oz. bottle? I prime with raw honey becuz it seems to give a better finish (to my reckoning anyways).

I really don't want any bottle bombs (been there, done that!), as we will be traveling in a carpeted sleeper van, it won't be in the trunk of a car! The first and only time I ever carbonated by the bottle. the recipe called for 1 tsp priming sugar (corn sugar) per bottle and about half of them were bottle bombs. (Boy, was the buyer unhappy with the condition of the carpet when I sold out). That was a lesson to me and from then on I always primed in my bottling bucket using accepted priming rates for each different style of beer I brewed. We have brewed wines before, but never tried to carbonate them for sparkling wine.

Any opinions/advice on priming amounts would be greatly appreciated.
TIA

 

[Yooper]

I never used raw honey, so I don't know the priming rate. But if you just use as much as you do for beer, you'd be fine.

 

[MT2sum]

Thanks Yooper, I guess I didn't word it right, but I'm only going to carbonate 1-22oz. bottle of each or maybe 2-12 oz beer bottles of each, not the whole keg.

 

[ong]

One easy and quick way to do this is using a carbonation cap and a 1 liter soda bottle. But yeah, as long as they’re at a stable FG, you can use a regular beer carbonation calculator. For sparkling wine I’d think you’d go towards the high side of carbonation.

 

[MT2sum]

One easy and quick way to do this is using a carbonation cap and a 1 liter soda bottle. But yeah, as long as they’re at a stable FG, you can use a regular beer carbonation calculator. For sparkling wine I’d think you’d go towards the high side of carbonation.

@ ong - Where would I find a beer carbonation calculator for a 22 oz bottle? The rest of the 5 gallons will be kegged as still wine.
TIA

 

[ong]

All the calculators I’ve seen let you input the beer volume. 22 fl oz = 0.172 gallons.

 

[MT2sum]

Thanks, I didn't realize they would do something that small, I was on brewtoad the other day and it was by the gallon AFAICS, I musta missed something! Since you gave me the 0.172 gallons, that outghta work! Much appreciated!

 

[MT2sum]

As I was searching around (I still can't figure out BrewToad), I happened to find an old thread here that gave me pretty much all the info:

Quick calculation:
Redneck units: ( 1oz sugar / 128fl.oz cider ) * 12fl.oz bottles = 0.0937oz sugar per bottle
The rest of the world: ( 7.5g sugar / 1L cider ) * 0.355L bottles = 2.66g sugar per bottle

That will produce quite a bit of carbonation. I use 1oz sugar per 1gal beer for most things. Stouts I'll drop to 3/4oz while some wheats and Belgiums I'll bump to 1.25oz. But, I like carb.

Conversions: 1 US oz weight ~ 28.35 g
1 US gal ~ 3.785 L

After some quick calculations I believe that a 22oz bottle would take about 0.1717826 oz sugar for priming cider/juice @ 1 oz/gal. (My oz/gram scale doesn't go that far down, so I'll have to research how I can figure that out!) Apparently he uses that rule of thumb for his beer also.
I also read in a recipe from the early 1700's that they primed with 1 or 2 raisins per bottle for Molasses Beer ..... just for kicks and giggles, and not knowing what size their bottle was, I'm going to try that formula with a 12 oz bottle and see if that will work. Hopefully it won't produce any bottle bombs.

 

[MT2sum]

I think I've got it figured out:
1 gal. = 128 oz.
128/22=5.818 22 oz. bottles per gal.
128/12=10.66 12 oz bottles per gal.
According to the Northern Brewer Priming Sugar Calculator (https://www.northernbrewer.com/pages/priming-sugar-calculator), the amount of honey for 1 gal. @ 3 volumes/70F is 1.43 oz. (Mike @ NB suggested 3 volumes for Sparkling Cider/Juice).

1.43 oz. honey / 5.818 22 oz. bottles/gal. = 0.2457 oz. honey per 22 oz. bottle.
1.43 oz. honey/10.6666 12 oz. bottles/gal. = 0.1340 oz. honey per 12 oz bottle.

Using an online calculator to convert the OZ. to tsp. :
0.2457 oz = 1.474 US tsp honey for priming a 22 oz. bottle. (1 1/2 tsp?)
0.134 oz. honey = 0.77245 US tsp. for priming a 12 oz. bottle. (3/4 tsp?)

Whaddya think, did I do the math correctly or not? I'm no math whiz, I almost failed math in High School 55 years ago! Any opinions, advice, corrections?
TIA

 

[bamajo]

I have 5 gallons of apfelwein nearing completion and 3 gallons of mead ready to bottle. I want to prime just a few bottles for each. I bought a case of 12 750mL bottles at a brewing store a few weeks ago. The guy was calling them saison bottles but they look like the belgian style in my catalogs. I'm planning on just using white cane sugar. I would think for small amounts honey would just be complicated to work with due to its viscosity.

 

[RPh_Guy]

https://www.morebeer.com/content/priming_sugar_calculator

Use this next time.

Seems to match your numbers.
I would not use honey for four reasons, 1. the sugar content is variable, 2. it is difficult to measure small amounts, 3. it takes longer to carbonate, and 4. raw honey contains microbes, which you don't really want to introduce at bottling unless it's fully dry and sulfited.

BTW I have used honey and don't find it any better than corn sugar for priming.

Cheers

 

[MT2sum]

@ bamajo & RPh_Guy
I prime my beers with honey, and have had no problems with the length of carbonation, nor with any microbes (I'm assuming you are referring to infections). I don't really think I want sulfites in my beer or wine if I can help it.
I dissolve raw honey in a cup of filtered water which has been heated to boiling and then cooled/warmed to the temp of the wort, depending on how long I let it set whilst cleaning up my equipment - I have also dissolved raw honey in a cup of warm wort as it cools down after the boil (after about 80F has been reached), which had no problems either. Besides all that, Organic honey is supposed to be good for you and works well for me when priming my beers.

1. Viscosity problem is taken care of by dissolving the honey in warm water/wort prior to transferring it to the bottling bucket.
2. Measuring out teaspoons of honey is not a difficult task for me, which is why I chose that conversion method.
3. I've never had issues with slow carbonation using honey - does anyone have any scientific notes or articles that may help me understand this difference of opinion?
4. As noted above, I don't really want any sulfites unless they are already there in the apple juice/cider/beer.
5. I feel that my beers are a bit smoother (in my mind, of course) when I use raw organic honey rather than GMO corn sugar. I have issues with using/eating GMO foods due to research I've done on what is involved in creating GMO products.
6. My questions above were not to start a flame war or disagreement on priming preferences, I was just asking whether my math was correct, and I thank you for addressing that question.

Ultimately, it is all in the eyes of the beholder. I've used Jaggery, Piloncillo, Panela, white table sugar, DME, LME, and corn sugar for priming over the years, and all of them are good ways to prime your beers, however until I am shown some sort of proof of potential harm/infection, my personal preference is honey - raw and organic if available.
This is my first time working on making a sparkling wine, and we have used honey for a sugar source in some of our wines, so I fail to see any microbe problems for priming. I've never made a mead, but I don't believe that a person would boil the honey to kill any microbes before adding it to the fermenter - I think (without looking up a mead recipe) that honey and yeast are the only ingredients, unless there is some water involved - and if you lived in my town you wouldn't even drink that water! Now I'm off to look up a mead recipe to see just what's in mead.

Thanks for the replies, I'm forever learning and will keep these responses in mind as I research your objections.


Ult

 

[RPh_Guy]

I didn't mean to cause a fuss. Not really interested in debating all of this.
Enjoy your trip!

 

[MT2sum]

I didn't mean to cause a fuss. Not really interested in debating all of this.
Enjoy your trip!

that was what I was trying to say - thanks!