Caramunich v. Melanoidin in Oktoberfest

[DonRikkles]

All - I'm planning to brew an Oktoberfest in a few weeks. It's my first time brewing this style and I'm trying to nail down the grain bill. I'm satisfied with my proportions so far, but want to get a layered malty and bready flavor. I'm thinking of .25 lb addition of either Caramunich II or Melanoidin. From what I understand, the Melanoidin will give me the character I want, but lots of folks seem to use Caramunich to their satisfaction. Here's my proposed grain bill:

4 lbs Munich
4 lbs Vienna
3 lbs Pilsener
.25 lb (Caramunich) or (Melanoidin)

5 gal, proposed OG is 1.060, but I need to tinker with the numbers in beersmith to account for my new boil kettle.

Thanks.

Edit - typo

 

[stpug]

Why not make it a full brewDAY and decoct this batch? You can forgo the use of caramunich and melanoidin this way, and this batch would benefit from a full decoction mash. If you would prefer to not decoct then I would opt for melanoidin, and about 4 oz seems right.

 

[DonRikkles]

A full on decoction is on my list of things to do, but I'll have first-time brewers with me on this brew day and want to keep this process on the simpler end for their sake.

 

[RonPopeil]

to do this properly it won't be a straight forward brew day.

best way would be triple decoction. next best would be a step mash with melanoiden a little victory or biscuit. third best would be the same victory or biscuit addition with a high mash temp 156-158F.

one way or another you won't have a typical brew day. save this batch for when you can do it justice and make an IPA, ESB, brown ale, tripel, etc.

 

[CadillacAndy]

Instead of doing a full 3x decoction, you can do a mash out decoction. There's a lot less at stake to just pull off 1.5 gallons of thick mash and boil for 20 mins. You get similar flavor, but not nearly the same amount of work as a triple decoction. You also don't have to worry about hitting certain temps. I usually mash for 20-30 mins, until I know conversion is done and then pull the thick mash to boil.

I'm personally not a big fan of caramunich in Oktoberfest - too much caramel richness. I've used small amounts (2-4oz) of melanoidin malt in my Oktoberfest, but I get a dark fruit flavor from it that is inappropriate in a lot of these lighter lager styles.

 

[DonRikkles]

Does one sparge as normal with a single decoction?

 

[CadillacAndy]

Yup. I usually batch sparge, but there's no reason to not do a fly sparge.

 

[mdennytoo]

Instead of doing a full 3x decoction, you can do a mash out decoction. There's a lot less at stake to just pull off 1.5 gallons of thick mash and boil for 20 mins. You get similar flavor, but not nearly the same amount of work as a triple decoction. You also don't have to worry about hitting certain temps.

I have done mashouts as decoctions just because it is an easy way to get a mashout in a plastic cooler that you can't directly fire. I guessed it might give a decoction flavor and maybe it did. I only decocted for the mashout temp.

I have also used melanoidin malt but it didn't make the beer taste like I performed a decoction. It gave it a burnt/ roast flavor like you might have in a light colored porter that didn't have enough crystal in it. I bought a pound and have used about 8 oz in four batches. Caramunich, in other beers I have done, was like putting crystal 120 in. I got raisin and plum flavors. Both or either would make you a good beer, but I doubt you would call the result a normal O'fest Marzen when it was done.

 

[DonRikkles]

Since this is brand new to me, I've been doing some research on how the proper way of doing a mash-out decoction. Opinion seems to be split on whether to scoop a thick mash, boil and return, or to get first runnings (w/o grain), boil, and return. Do you have an opinion or experience on which is better?

 

[stpug]

If your mash is fully converted then using a thin mash (runnings) is perfectly acceptable.