American Amber Ale Caramel Amber Ale

[NobleNewt]

I'm thinking about making this as my next brew. Any thoughts on spreading out the IBUs over the course of the boil? I was thinking of cutting the 60 minute addition in roughly in half and spreading the rest of the IBU profile across a 30, 15, and 10 minute addition lending more hop flavor and less bitterness towards the end of the boil.

I also want the beer to be crisp and malty as an amber, so my moving the hop additions may defeat that entirely.

 

[InspectorJon]

Brewed this per the original recipe substituting Tettnanger for the Willamette hops because that is what the store had and recommended as a substitute. Brewed Dec. 12, bottled Jan 11. It was pretty good after a couple weeks in the bottle. It is tasting really good right now on Feb 20. The hops have settled down a bit and the caramel flavor is coming through. Very happy with this beer.

 

[Parkinson1963]

Brewed this recipe about a month ago, on tap now.

Wow what a wonderful beer, malty flavour and body with just enough hops.

Excellent.

Will brew again this month.

 

[MisterClean]

Brewed this one a 5 weeks ago. It's been on co2 for about a week and I just poured a good glass.

Very good beer. When brewing this one I hit all of my numebrs perfectly (for the 1st time ever) So I was expecting it to be good and I'm not disappointed. Lightly sweet with a good malt backbone and pleasant bitterness that's not in your face.

I expect it to get better as it ages (if it lasts that long). It's still a little young, so I think the bitterness will mellow out some and I'll get more caramel flavor. I also have my keezer set pretty cold (that's how my family likes it), and I think as it warms up it gets better. Before carb it had a fantastic caramel/burnt sugar sweetness I was excited about, and now it's not really there like I was hoping. It's there again if I let it warm up and sit in my mouth a bit, but who wants to do that lol.

I do have one question, I taste a slight astringency in my batch, I want to see if anyone else's is dry and astringent, or if maybe I mashed out too high. It's not astringent enough where anyone outside of myself or maybe a judge would notice but i want to improve my process and beer so I am extra critical. Anyone else's on the edge of dry/astringent?


Oh another question: Maybe mine is a little more bitter than expected because I did the hop addition wrong? I just noticed it says flame out-steep. I just added my hops at flameout and let them carryover through chilling and fermentation, rather than steep them in a bag and remove them. Thoughts?

Also, thanks OP for the recipe. I'm sure this one will be a hit with my homebrew group.

 

[Dr.Jay]

Followed this recipe and got very good numbers. OG 1.050 and FG 1.007. Nice hop flavour and aroma. Fist time I notice this in my beers. I changed going from a hop bag to just putting the hops in loose. I didnt have a thermometer for the candi syrup so I just winged it. Fermented for 10 days, 2 days cold crash and gelatin and keg. Half the batch is in bottles.
This is my 6th batch and to this day, its the best one yet. not too bitter, nice hop flavour and aroma. Not a lot of malt yet, maybe this will get better with time. Great head and color. All in all , a great beer to have! I would say this is the fist one I just want to come home and have a pint.
Thanks a lot for the recipe!

 

[SW Ohio Keith]

I'm thinking about making this as my next brew. Any thoughts on spreading out the IBUs over the course of the boil? I was thinking of cutting the 60 minute addition in roughly in half and spreading the rest of the IBU profile across a 30, 15, and 10 minute addition lending more hop flavor and less bitterness towards the end of the boil.

I also want the beer to be crisp and malty as an amber, so my moving the hop additions may defeat that entirely.

I’ve made this about 4 times now, and I think I’m going to drop the IBUs down to about 30. It’s just a little bitter for me.

 

[Katman]

I am brewing a extract version of this recipe right now. I replaced the Pale malt with 5.25lbs of light LME and am adding half of the bittering hops at 45 min and the other half at 30 min. I just added the candi syrup and the wort taste really good. I will update this post in a few weeks after I have tried one.

 

[Lalo]

Greetings,
I brewed a mini-mash version of this 8 months ago with Safale US-05. OG was 1.051 and FG estimated at 1.007 by the software. I bottled at 1.008 since gravity readings were close enough and stable over a few days. I opened a bottle 3 months ago and the beer came gushing out! I thought it was an infection but the beer is fine--no sourness or off flavors, only a higher ABV that was noticeable (but not in a bad way). Today I opened another bottle, beer gushed out, and took a gravity reading: 1.002 (!). According to an ABV calculator I used, attenuation was 96%. I thought the candi sugar could be responsible for this but such a low FG could only be achieved if the the attenuation was really high (ABV is likely 6.43% instead of ~5%). Can over-pitching do this? Or a fluke yeast batch? What else could cause this? I'm puzzled, but happy because this beer is great! I will brew again with a different yeast, perhaps Kolsch or an English strain for higher FG. Cheers!

 

[FatDragon]

Greetings,
I brewed a mini-mash version of this 8 months ago with Safale US-05. OG was 1.051 and FG estimated at 1.007 by the software. I bottled at 1.008 since gravity readings were close enough and stable over a few days. I opened a bottle 3 months ago and the beer came gushing out! I thought it was an infection but the beer is fine--no sourness or off flavors, only a higher ABV that was noticeable (but not in a bad way). Today I opened another bottle, beer gushed out, and took a gravity reading: 1.002 (!). According to an ABV calculator I used, attenuation was 96%. I thought the candi sugar could be responsible for this but such a low FG could only be achieved if the the attenuation was really high (ABV is likely 6.43% instead of ~5%). Can over-pitching do this? Or a fluke yeast batch? What else could cause this? I'm puzzled, but happy because this beer is great! I will brew again with a different yeast, perhaps Kolsch or an English strain for higher FG. Cheers!

That's almost certainly an infection, even if it's not one that presents off flavors.

 

[Lalo]

That's almost certainly an infection, even if it's not one that presents off flavors.

Definitely NOT an infection.

 

[FatDragon]

Definitely NOT an infection.

If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck...

You had consistent gravity readings right around your expected FG for a few days before bottling. Then the beer slowly attenuated several more points over several months in the bottle. That points strongly to an infection. My guess is that some diastaticus yeast got in there - some of those strains can be pretty hard to kill so it could have survived in the bottling bucket, for example. I suppose a Brett strain might do the same thing, but Brett would probably alter the taste as well.

 

[Oldskewl]

Have you brewed any Saisons or used any other yeast with the STA-1 gene? I have been fighting a similar problem. I traced it back to a saison I brewed. Beers ferment out fine and hold steady for days/weeks. Then when I bottle them the STA-1 gene grows and re-ferments the beer down a few more points and causes gushers. When I keg the cold temps seem to keep things from re-fermenting. I have PBWd, boiled, and star sand everything, but it still happens. Here is an article to better explain.

https://www.chaibio.com/beer-spoilage/diastaticus

 

[kevy]

I don’t know what I did wrong

I followed the simple instructions! This is what I did:
1 cup of water into pot
Began heating
Stirred in 2 lbs of Organic Beet sugar
Stir until dissolved
Temp was at 190 when stopped stirring
Added 2 tsp of DAP
Continued heating slowly for 30 more minutes until thermo read 280 exactly
At 280 I killed the heat and transferred pot to empty sink(for splashing)
Once in sink i poured in 1 1/4 cup of water
Let sit for a few seconds and began to lightly stir

Here’s where I noticed problem
As soon as I stuck the spatula in the pot I felt the goo at the bottom
Real liquidy at the top and hard goo stuck to the bottom of pot
I went ahead and cooled pot in ice bath and tried pouring into a mason jar
Inside the jar you can see the separation of the thick hard stuff and the liquidy stuff
The pot is ruined maybe with this stuff stuck to it. I have it soaking
Anyhow. I hope someone can let me know where I went wrong
Thanks
Here some pics to help

 

[IslandLizard]

I don’t know what I did wrong

I followed the simple instructions! This is what I did:
1 cup of water into pot
Began heating
Stirred in 2 lbs of Organic Beet sugar
Stir until dissolved
Temp was at 190 when stopped stirring
Added 2 tsp of DAP
Continued heating slowly for 30 more minutes until thermo read 280 exactly
At 280 I killed the heat and transferred pot to empty sink(for splashing)
Once in sink i poured in 1 1/4 cup of water
Let sit for a few seconds and began to lightly stir

Here’s where I noticed problem
As soon as I stuck the spatula in the pot I felt the goo at the bottom
Real liquidy at the top and hard goo stuck to the bottom of pot
I went ahead and cooled pot in ice bath and tried pouring into a mason jar
Inside the jar you can see the separation of the thick hard stuff and the liquidy stuff
The pot is ruined maybe with this stuff stuck to it. I have it soaking
Anyhow. I hope someone can let me know where I went wrong
Thanks
Here some pics to help View attachment 648240View attachment 648241

Could it have burned on the bottom? I always stir somewhat from time to time while it's bubbling as you show in the picture, which must have been early on in the process.

Soaking should re-dissolve the sugar, but if it's solid, it may take a while, days perhaps. Just stir it and keep putting in fresh hot water until it comes out. To speed up the re-dissolving process, you could put the sugar pot inside a larger one and bain-marie/double boiler it. (Indirect) heat speeds up the process.

Don't try to scrape the pot, you will likely damage it.
I use a cheap stainless pot with a copper cladded bottom.

 

[kevy]

Yeah. I guess it could have It doesn’t smell or look burnt. It’s just really thick and gooey.
I had read to not stir I don’t know
I’m confused as to what I did wrong

 

[IslandLizard]

Yeah. I guess it could have It doesn’t smell or look burnt. It’s just really thick and gooey.
I had read to not stir I don’t know
I’m confused as to what I did wrong

It may have gotten too thick, and it caked to the bottom. You'll see when the sugar cake comes out what may have caused it. The pot is not necessarily ruined.
I don't stir often, maybe every 5-10 minutes with a long stainless spoon. I do it when I scrape the crystal layer that clings to the side and re-submerge them.

Now in that nice pot you may not want to scrape or stir with anything metal. Plastic will melt, I have proof of that. Use a silicone spatula perhaps?

Try it again, don't give up. Maybe use cheap generic cane sugar first until you got the process down. I do think 2 pounds is sort of the minimum, you need some depth and a decent volume.
It took me several times to get the hang of it. I pyrolyzed my first batch, got too hot. Looked like tar and tasted very acrid.
Slower is better, gives you more good flavor too, the longer it takes the more flavor develops. You can always add a tablespoon of water to the syrup from time to time to keep the temp from rising too much.

Those candy thermometers are very slow reacting to temp changes. Also, while clipped to the side, they don't register the temp in the middle, which could be much higher. Keep that in mind.
My Thermapen (~$80 when they have an "open box" sale) is much, much better for all cooking and brewing things. Wish I had bought one 10 years ago.

 

[kevy]

Thanks islandlizard. I’ll try again tomorrow and let you know

 

[IslandLizard]

Thanks islandlizard. I’ll try again tomorrow and let you know

While it simmers/bubbles, put small drops on a piece of aluminum foil along the way. They give you an idea of color and flavor development.

 

[Lalo]

Have you brewed any Saisons or used any other yeast with the STA-1 gene? I have been fighting a similar problem. I traced it back to a saison I brewed. Beers ferment out fine and hold steady for days/weeks. Then when I bottle them the STA-1 gene grows and re-ferments the beer down a few more points and causes gushers. When I keg the cold temps seem to keep things from re-fermenting. I have PBWd, boiled, and star sand everything, but it still happens. Here is an article to better explain.

https://www.chaibio.com/beer-spoilage/diastaticus

Hi, thanks for the link, this is all very interesting. I wasn't sure it was an infection because I used a refractometer and I thought maybe my readings were a bit off but with this new information I think I have narrowed it down to some of the bottles I used. I have not brewed any Saisons recently (however I now realize after reading the link you shared and milkthefunk.com that I have used some yeasts in the past that have the STA-1 gene). Not all the bottles from that batch refermented down a few points. I reuse German swing-top bottles and some had hefeweizen beer in them (which can have the STA gene). It is possible that I used some of those bottles and that my washing/sanitizing procedures fell short and that some yeast traces (from Hefe or something else) could've stayed in the bottles.

After this, and now a ruined batch (different problem, I got lazy and waited +36 hrs to pitch my yeast and some bug got to my fermenter), I got a bit paranoid. I use Oxyclean or PBW, scrub/soak everything at least twice, then Star San---but now I am adding another step. After soaking/scrubbing with PBW and removing all residue I am using a 5% solution of sodium hydroxide at 80F to rinse my carboys etc. and burn anything organic followed by a vinegar+water solution to neutralize the lye, then soap+brush, and finally Star San. Maybe it's overkill. I don't like much the idea of using lye, but that's where my research took me and from what I've read lye can definitely kill diastaticus yeast. Alternatively, a concentrated solution of sodium metabisulfate (or similar) might be just as effective as lye but I need to look into it some more.

 

[IslandLizard]

I don't like much the idea of using lye, but that's where my research took me and from what I've read lye can definitely kill diastaticus yeast. Alternatively, a concentrated solution of sodium metabisulfate (or similar) might be just as effective as lye but I need to look into it some more.

Lye is a cleaner, a strong degreaser. It removes/destroys biofilm, even stubborn ones, which is where bugs reside. But be careful it's (very) caustic and will damage (dissolve) skin and could cause blindness if even a small splatter gets in your eyes. Wear gloves and face shield. It works even better when hot and is mostly used in CIP applications due to its causticity. Pros use it that way. They keep their plate chillers filled with it when idle.

"Meta" is a sanitizer not a cleaner. You can't sanitize something that's not clean in the first place.
IMO, Starsan is a better overall sanitizer, as is Iodophor. For more thorough sanitation use Peracetic Acid. That's what pros use, as well as lye.

 

[9Kegs]

I don’t know what I did wrong

I followed the simple instructions! This is what I did:
1 cup of water into pot
Began heating
Stirred in 2 lbs of Organic Beet sugar
Stir until dissolved
Temp was at 190 when stopped stirring
Added 2 tsp of DAP
Continued heating slowly for 30 more minutes until thermo read 280 exactly
At 280 I killed the heat and transferred pot to empty sink(for splashing)
Once in sink i poured in 1 1/4 cup of water
Let sit for a few seconds and began to lightly stir

Here’s where I noticed problem
As soon as I stuck the spatula in the pot I felt the goo at the bottom
Real liquidy at the top and hard goo stuck to the bottom of pot
I went ahead and cooled pot in ice bath and tried pouring into a mason jar
Inside the jar you can see the separation of the thick hard stuff and the liquidy stuff
The pot is ruined maybe with this stuff stuck to it. I have it soaking
Anyhow. I hope someone can let me know where I went wrong
Thanks
Here some pics to help View attachment 648240View attachment 648241

Problem might be with your candy thermometer. I tried making homemade cottage cheese with one and I over shot my maximum allowed temp. Next time I used my thermopen and was successful.

 

[kevy]

Well. Looks like I did it. I changed a few things so not sure what exactly led to success but I feel like I went way slower and kept it to a low simmer I think that was the key
I also used pure cane sugar rather than beet sugar but I don’t think that mattered
Slow is better.

 

[IslandLizard]

Well. Looks like I did it. I changed a few things so not sure what exactly led to success but I feel like I went way slower and kept it to a low simmer I think that was the key
I also used pure cane sugar rather than beet sugar but I don’t think that mattered
Slow is better.

Glad to hear you had success this time. You hit the nail on the head: Slower is better.
The D-90 I make (I think mine is better) takes almost 2 hours of slow simmering, adding a tablespoon or 2 of water every now and then. You get a feel for that. I do use 4 pounds of sugar, twice the usual amount, making it worth the effort, time spent, and energy used.

One thing I do differently: Instead of water I use the actual beer wort. I save 2 quarts of boiled wort out, or if I want it stronger, save first runnings. This provides more extensive Maillard reactions, producing more melanoidins. I add the syrup to the beer, thinned down with the extra saved out wort, when fermentation has slowed down a lot.

I don't think there is any difference between beet and cane sugar, at least the products we get. They're chemically the same, sucrose. Perhaps there is when it's unrefined, different impurities. I think there's a lot of hype around beet sugar.

 

[kevy]

I agree on the beet sugar thing
I have my caramel amber ale in the fermenter now. Can’t wait.
I did send the whole 2lbs batch of the syrup however. I was gonna weigh out 1lbs but said why not and did the whole 2. Hopefully I won’t regret that
Sure looks good tho

 

[IslandLizard]

I agree on the beet sugar thing
I have my caramel amber ale in the fermenter now. Can’t wait.
I did send the whole 2lbs batch of the syrup however. I was gonna weigh out 1lbs but said why not and did the whole 2. Hopefully I won’t regret that
Sure looks good tho View attachment 648867

2 pounds is quite a lot. Most of the sugars from the syrup will ferment out, boosting the alcohol level, and may "thin out" the beer somewhat as alcohol doesn't provide body. Neither do the unfermentables in the sugar syrup, they just add some residual sweetness and flavor. You added a lot of caramel flavor, it probably balances out just fine.

BTW, that's some of the clearest first runnings I've ever seen!
Interesting brew stand for your mash tun too! Even has a hitch.

A small detail. Perhaps use a longer hose to keep the end on the bottom to prevent sheeting and splashing. Reduces oxygen take up.
And watch out lifting full, heavy kettles... speaking from experience, ended up with a small hernia.

 

[kevy]

Thanks I will keep that in mind.
Yeah I even have a folding table across my truck bed to hold hot above the mash tun. Nice three tier set up with the Tundra I’ll let y’all know how the beer turns out with 2lbs of syrup

 

[kevy]

2 pounds is quite a lot. Most of the sugars from the syrup will ferment out, boosting the alcohol level, and may "thin out" the beer somewhat as alcohol doesn't provide body. Neither do the unfermentables in the sugar syrup, they just add some residual sweetness and flavor. You added a lot of caramel flavor, it probably balances out just fine.

BTW, that's some of the clearest first runnings I've ever seen!
Interesting brew stand for your mash tun too! Even has a hitch.

A small detail. Perhaps use a longer hose to keep the end on the bottom to prevent sheeting and splashing. Reduces oxygen take up.
And watch out lifting full, heavy kettles... speaking from experience, ended up with a small hernia.

What is sheeting?

 

[IslandLizard]

What is sheeting?

That's what you see in your picture, a film of wort going down the side of the kettle. For the time it lasts there's a super high area exposed to air. You should try to avoid (e.g., LODO brewing) or at least limit ("sensible" brewing technique) O2 uptake, which is not improving your wort.

 

[kevy]

That's what you see in your picture, a film of wort going down the side of the kettle. For the time it lasts there's a super high area exposed to air. You should try to avoid (e.g., LODO brewing) or at least limit ("sensible" brewing technique) O2 uptake, which is not improving your wort.

Would the o2 not boil out?

 

[IslandLizard]

Would the o2 not boil out?

Once wort oxidizes it can't be reversed. Yes, any surplus O2 left behind will boil off, but the damage has already been done before that.

LODO brewers boil their brewing water first to drive off as much dissolved O2 as possible, then chill it down to strike temp. They take measures in every step and process to prevent, or at least limit, any air (O2) exposure as much as possible.

I'm not 100% LODO (yet) but use many of their techniques, wherever I possibly can. In most cases it's just a really small effort of doing things slightly differently. Then once you've done it, you never want to go back. Seeing and understanding where O2 can cause problems and being aware of them is all it takes. Like not splashing hot wort; or not splashing beer into a bottling bucket; or leaving the lid on a fermenter; etc.

If you're interested, LODO has its own subforum here:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/forums/lodo-discussion-and-techniques.282/