Can't trust my yeast.

[passedpawn]

I thought about maybe inoculating one with the starter and inoculating the other with the yeast out of the kegs. I would hate to find out that it ruined one of them but, at least I'd have the other to drink and I know if the starter was bad or not, for sure. I like to hear what you say and I'd like to not be worried about it but, when I taste that sour taste, it makes me think that the whole batch is going to go bad if I put it in there.

It's just beer. Do your experiment, do what you like, report back here.

 

[DBhomebrew]

What is it about yeast in suspension that you prefer? I find suspended yeast to be rather...sour.

 

[slayer021175666]

It's just beer. Do your experiment, do what you like, report back here.

Yeah. It's just beer, which is very important to me. And, it's the whole day's work and whatever ingredients were put into it and the idea of another soured failure.

 

[IslandLizard]

pitch that yeast. You cannot taste a yeast starter and like it.

Maybe it's an acquired taste, but I always taste my yeast starters (or supernatant after cold crashing) before I pitch or save out. I find that an essential part of my yeast/ fermentation quality control.
I think (or at least hope so) I'm able to spot anything unusual, such a sourness or off-flavors.

When encountering off flavors, occasionally it's OK to pitch. But most often not so, and that yeast also get pitched, onto the compost pile, that is!
I still need to beef up a stir plate so I can easier acid-wash yeast that is a little suspicious.

It's a good habit to only brew if you have (healthy) yeast, ready to pitch. Plan your yeast starters and brew day accordingly.

 

[slayer021175666]

What is it about yeast in suspension that you prefer? I find suspended yeast to be rather...sour.

The first thing that ever got me off of Budweiser was widmere hefeweizen. After that, I fell in love with the idea of cloudy suspended yeast beers. Yeast os damn good for you and as we all know, you don't get near the hangovers off of homemade beer that you do off of commercial beer. I think that the more yeast you have in it the more that you can drink and not have ill effects. Besides that, I just like a nice thick cloudy beer. Just a matter of opinion, I guess.

 

[DBhomebrew]

Indeed. Cheers

 

[slayer021175666]

Maybe it's an acquired taste, but I always taste my yeast starters (or supernatant after cold crashing) before I pitch or save out. I find that an essential part of my yeast/ fermentation quality control.
I think (or at least hope so) I'm able to spot anything unusual, such a sourness or off-flavors.

When encountering off flavors, occasionally it's OK to pitch. But most often not so, and that yeast also get pitched, onto the compost pile, that is!
I still need to beef up a stir plate so I can easier acid-wash yeast that is a little suspicious.

It's a good habit to only brew if you have (healthy) yeast, ready to pitch. Plan your yeast starters and brew day accordingly.

I completely agree. If that starter tastes weird, there is no reason to inoculate your beer with it if you have another route. Besides that, I want to know what a good yeast starter should taste like. If they're supposed to taste like crap, fine. What crap exactly should they taste like? That's what I want to know! I don't want to sit in uncertain wonder or nerd out on a microscope. I think that the best way and the old way was to taste it, smell it and make a determination. I'm not going to put that sour tasting starter in my beer. I'm going to use what's on the bottom of the kegs because right now, it's the only thing that I can do and I know that it works. I've done it before. And, it tastes rusty. Not sour.

 

[IslandLizard]

I thought about maybe inoculating one with the starter

I'd use some of that "sour" smelling/tasting yeast starter to ferment a gallon or half gallon of your wort. Just for kicks, and to prove, or disprove your first impression of the starter being potentially infected. You can keep the remainder in the fridge, just in case it's all good.

The main reason to test it that way, is that we can do that, and should, because it's a hobby, and you can learn much from it.

I must admit, Hefeweizen yeast can be an acquired taste, it certainly is for me.

 

[slayer021175666]

I'd use some of that "sour" smelling/tasting yeast starter to ferment a gallon or half gallon of your wort. Just for kicks, and to prove, or disprove your first impression of the starter being potentially infected. You can keep the remainder in the fridge, just in case it's all good.

The main reason to test it that way, is that we can do that, and should, because it's a hobby, and you can learn much from it.

I must admit, Hefeweizen yeast can be an acquired taste, it certainly is for me.

I like your idea but I really don't have the fridge space to do it and if I did, I'd have to warm it back up to room temperature to pitch the yeast. I don't like the idea of it sitting around with the possibility of some other bug getting in it whether in the fridge or on the counter. I could take a gallon out or something and inoculate it with a little bit of that "sour" yeast starter though, just to tell if my thinking is correct. If it sours the one gallon then, it would have soured the 10 gallons!
It's an American hef like Widmere. It's nothing like the German ones. They're way overbearing to me, as well!

 

[slayer021175666]

I'd use some of that "sour" smelling/tasting yeast starter to ferment a gallon or half gallon of your wort. Just for kicks, and to prove, or disprove your first impression of the starter being potentially infected. You can keep the remainder in the fridge, just in case it's all good.

The main reason to test it that way, is that we can do that, and should, because it's a hobby, and you can learn much from it.

I must admit, Hefeweizen yeast can be an acquired taste, it certainly is for me.

Island lizard,
If I were to do that with a half gallon of it or something, how do you suggest I get it out of the fermenter. Pour it right through the spigot or sanitize a container and dip it out or? Once I close a ball valve, I don't like opening it anymore. I figure that maybe there's a possibility that opening it would introduce some of the germs that are on the outside of the ball (or whatever type of valve you're using. You always have to realize that one side of it is constantly exposed to the air.) back into the inside of the fermenter. You guys probably think that I'm too freaked out about everything but, when you've had as many beers sour as I have, you are one sanitizing freaked out MOFO!

 

[passedpawn]

Maybe it's an acquired taste, but I always taste my yeast starters (or supernatant after cold crashing) before I pitch or save out. I find that an essential part of my yeast/ fermentation quality control.
I think (or at least hope so) I'm able to spot anything unusual, such a sourness or off-flavors.

When encountering off flavors, occasionally it's OK to pitch. But most often not so, and that yeast also get pitched, onto the compost pile, that is!
I still need to beef up a stir plate so I can easier acid-wash yeast that is a little suspicious.

It's a good habit to only brew if you have (healthy) yeast, ready to pitch. Plan your yeast starters and brew day accordingly.

I hope you're not giving this advice in the new brewer forums.

Yeast starters don't ever taste like good beer. Nobody should taste their yeast starter to determine if it's worthy of pitching. Sure, an experienced brewer might detect a problem, but generally it'll taste bad.

 

[slayer021175666]

I hope you're not giving this advice in the new brewer forums.

Yeast starters don't ever taste like good beer. Nobody should taste their yeast starter to determine if it's worthy of pitching. Sure, an experienced brewer might detect a problem, but generally it'll taste bad.

Understandable that it will taste bad. I just don't think that it should taste sour. But, I don't know and neither do you. You don't taste yours and I haven't tasted mine enough. Not trying to argue. Just saying there's some way that the ******* monks 600 years ago made sure!

 

[IslandLizard]

sanitize a container and dip it out

That's what I recommend. Spigots can easily become bug traps.

Preferably use a glass/Pyrex measuring cup, if you have one.
Sanitize the lid closure area well before opening. Sanitize hands and wrists before dipping the measuring cup (not your hands) into the wort. Re-sanitize lid and rim again before closing it up.

 

[IslandLizard]

You guys probably think that I'm too freaked out about everything but, when you've had as many beers sour as I have, you are one sanitizing freaked out MOFO!

That many, ouch!
Something is being missed. What sanitizer are you using?

 

[slayer021175666]

That's what I recommend. Spigots can easily become bug traps.

Preferably use a glass/Pyrex measuring cup, if you have one.
Sanitize the lid closure area well before opening. Sanitize hands and wrists before dipping the measuring cup (not your hands) into the wort. Re-sanitize lid and rim again before closing it up.

Looks like, we agree on many things. Tasting your damn Yeast starters and not opening spigots after they're closed on your fermenter, to name a couple.
And, I think that after enough tasting them, I'll become good at knowing what they should taste like whether, it's bad tasting or not. Like the ones out of The keg which I know for positive SURE, are good, they taste a little bit Rusty. I will take Rusty over sour, any day!

 

[slayer021175666]

That many, ouch!
Something is being missed. What sanitizer are you using?

Star san. In copious quantities!

 

[IslandLizard]

Like the ones [yeast] out of The keg which I know for positive SURE, are good, they taste a little bit Rusty.

I hope there's no rust in your kegs.

There could be some yeast autolysis going on, mixed with fine, trub, and other beer components (e.g., hop dust) that settled out in the (cold) keg.
Marmite flavors come to mind (which contains much autolyzed yeast).

You should see what can drop out of already clear Lagers after 4 weeks at 34-36°F.

 

[slayer021175666]

I hope there's no rust in your kegs.

There could be some yeast autolysis going on, mixed with fine, trub, and other beer components (e.g., hop dust) that settled out in the (cold) keg.
Marmite flavors come to mind (which contains much autolyzed yeast).

You should see what can drop out of already clear Lagers after 4 weeks at 34-36°F.

I don't think there's any actual rust in my stainless steel corny kegs. I think it's the autolysis that you mentioned. Still, its a lot more trustable than a sour tasting yeast starter.
And yes, I was surprised to see what's actually floating around in the yeast that I poured out of the kegs after drinking such a nice beer off of them. I didn't realize there'd be that much trub in it when I use a hop strainer and vorlauf and all.
That trub's getting dumped in too, though! I'm not going to try to rinse that little amount of yeast. It made about the same inch or so only, this time, in a quart jar. Not, a pint jar.

 

[IslandLizard]

That trub's getting dumped in too, though!

You don't have much choice, it's probably like dust, hard to filter out. It will be fine, even with a little trub. And having a little trub offers nourishment to the yeast, don't forget.

I'm not going to try to rinse that little amount of yeast.

Good choice! When rinsing yeast you stand to lose half the yeast with it, easily.