Can't stop thinking about sours...

[BarnabyHooge]

Recently I've been obsessing on a few of the sour beers I've had recently and have been thinking about brewing one. I had a couple small batch sours from Goose Island, a Jolly Pumpkin, and another that I think was La Folie from New Belgium.

I've only got a hand full of extract batches under my belt, but they've all been great and I think I've gotten a handle on the process. I'd like to do something a little more intense that I can let age for a good long while.

Anyone have a good starting recipe? How about books on the topic? I understand Wild Brews is supposed to be a good one, but the reviews I've read say it's only for very experienced all grain brewers.

 

[Jack]

Unless you're sour mashing, souring is all fermentation-side so it has nothing to do with all grain versus extract.

Really, you can make any beer sour by adding a souring culture to it (e.g. WLP655). I think generally, people recommend adding the souring culture after a normal saccharomyces beer yeast has been used. You can also use a souring culture in lieu of normal beer yeast.

There are a couple sour styles that pop into my head (in order of decreasing sourness, I think): gueze, Flanders red, lambic, Flanders brown, Berliner weisse. What kind of sour beers to you like?

 

[BarnabyHooge]

Honestly, I haven't had a sour I didn't like. The Jolly Pumpkin Bam Biere was great with a minimal amount of sour, but I've had excellent beers from GI and New Belgium that had heavy sour flavors without a ton of "funk". The problem is those were special batches for Hopleaf and I can't get any info on them anymore. The one I had last night was a Saison Sour Brown, and it had just a hint of the "horse blanket" flavor....it was awesome.


I'd be interested in brewing anyone thats a good starting point.

 

[Edcculus]

For first starting out, a Flanders Red would be easiest. Lambics can get tricky and take much longer. For the Flanders, I suggest listening to the "Jamil Show" podcast on that style. If you want to brew sour beer, get Wild Brews. It does go into a good bit of all grain stuff. It mainly talks about the critters in the beer.

The best route, which Jamil talks about is to ferment your beer with a regular strain of yeast. Then pitch in whatever "souring" culture you want to.

 

[talleymonster]

I have only had two or three sours, but I really like them. In fact, a very generous brewer here has a bottle of Deschutes The Dissident in the mail for me as I type this.

 

[Chriso]

Mmmmmmm. I can't stop thinking about sours either. I can still taste the Cantillion from a couple weeks ago.

Never had a Flanders, though, my experience has been limited to saison/funkhouse, a couple lambics, and gueze.

 

[IrregularPulse]

Also interested in sours. Had one a year ago and was quite pleased. But cannot get them locally.
I can however get Orval. Is Orval considered a sour? It has a certain sourness to it and I think it's secondary fermented with Brett but that may have just been from my head. I've not ever heard it mentioned in sour conversation though.

 

[jjp36]

Mmmmmmm. I can't stop thinking about sours either. I can still taste the Cantillion from a couple weeks ago.

Never had a Flanders, though, my experience has been limited to saison/funkhouse, a couple lambics, and gueze.

For your first flanders may i suggest Duchesse De Bourgogne. It's pretty spectacular

 

[Edcculus]

Also interested in sours. Had one a year ago and was quite pleased. But cannot get them locally.
I can however get Orval. Is Orval considered a sour? It has a certain sourness to it and I think it's secondary fermented with Brett but that may have just been from my head. I've not ever heard it mentioned in sour conversation though.

It isn't technically a sour, but it is "wild". It definitely contains some brett.

 

[Killinger]

I have three Duchesse de Bourgogne (Flanders Red) in my beer fridge and drank down a Hanssens Oude Kriek last night. I'm kind of going through a sour phase.

I'm considering brewing something sour someday, but I've heard vague rumors of brewhouse infections and extra steps to avoid them (use different equipment in a different area of the house etc.).

What's the word? Who's done a sour and lived to (horse) tale?

 

[Chriso]

If no one gets to it first, I have a bunch of links to other good discussions I've been in recently on sour beers and how to do them... Heading to bed right now - but if you bump this thread in the AM tomorrow, I will round up the links @ work asap, I know right which ones I want to pass on, and get that up here asap. Cheers!

 

[z987k]

Berliner Weisse is defiantly the easiest to make, especially if you do a sour mash or really take the easy way out and just add lactic acid. Both of which I believe are inferior to the lacto based fermentation.

Past that fruit lambic is easy because the fruit can help hide flaws a lot.

The flander's beers are a little more difficult because you really need the right amount of different besties and a good long aging period (18+months). Just pitching wlp655 into a red isn't going to make a flanders red.

I'd recommend the Jamil Shows on the various sours.
and this website
Brewing Flemish Red Ale, by Raj B. Apte

 

[Saccharomyces]

All kinds of potential for sour beers if you want to get creative. At a party over the weekend I tried a sour porter on tap. Wow! It was great...

 

[Edcculus]

I have three Duchesse de Bourgogne (Flanders Red) in my beer fridge and drank down a Hanssens Oude Kriek last night. I'm kind of going through a sour phase.

I'm considering brewing something sour someday, but I've heard vague rumors of brewhouse infections and extra steps to avoid them (use different equipment in a different area of the house etc.).

What's the word? Who's done a sour and lived to (horse) tale?

If you are scared, just get a separate racking cane and hose. If you keg, thats a different story. I would use one keg for sour beer (mark it). On the other hand, Jamil says he takes every keg apart and cleans it no matter what kind of beer he puts in it. Therefore, he does not use separate kegs for wild beer.

The only other equipment that would be affected would be carboys. They are glass and cannot harbor infections. Just soak in PBW and hit it with starsan.

As far as I know, it is much harder to do top fermentation and wild beer in a commercial brewery. The large scale makes it much harder to clean certain equipment. Once the bugs get in, they are there to stay. On a small scale, we can easily zap them, or just have an extra set of tubes.

 

[Killinger]

If you are scared, just get a separate racking cane and hose. If you keg, thats a different story. I would use one keg for sour beer (mark it). On the other hand, Jamil says he takes every keg apart and cleans it no matter what kind of beer he puts in it. Therefore, he does not use separate kegs for wild beer.

The only other equipment that would be affected would be carboys. They are glass and cannot harbor infections. Just soak in PBW and hit it with starsan.

As far as I know, it is much harder to do top fermentation and wild beer in a commercial brewery. The large scale makes it much harder to clean certain equipment. Once the bugs get in, they are there to stay. On a small scale, we can easily zap them, or just have an extra set of tubes.

Thanks for the info. I'm not exactly scared, but the idea of contaminating my brew area had me looking before I leapt. Extra equipment, especially the small stuff, is no big deal.

OK, so I'll give it a shot at some point.