Can't decide on chiller...

[ScubaSteve]

A benefit of using a CFC is that you can use a hopback right before you chill the wort, locking in the aromas in a closed system and by the time the wort exits, it will be below 100F and much less volatile. You can't really do this with an IC, but you could mimic it with whirlpool or "burst" hops.

 

[Sanspareil]

50' Dual Coil IC, hands down. I can chill 5 gals of wort down to 74 F. in 8 minutes.
Here is a picture of the one I built

 

[passedpawn]

Also, I always thought it would be kind of a PITA to run sanitizer through a plate chiller beforehand. How do people do this? Use a funnel?

I've never put any sanitizer in my plate chiller (Therminator). Never even thought of it until now, actually. I do what everyone else does, run boiling wort through it for the last 15 minutes of a boil. Requires a pump in your system.

 

[Captain_Bigelow]

Sanspareil - that is one nice looking design.

 

[Sanspareil]

Thanks, It still amazes me how fast it works. We did a club brew a few weeks ago and I brought this monster for people to use. It had everyone running around like chickens with their heads cut off because they were used to having more time to get ready to transfer, and pitch. One important # is the time it takes to get from 212 to under 140, this thing gets it there in 1 1/2 to 2 minutes. Freakin awesome.

 

[prosper]

Yep, my 50' IC is pretty similar, though I'm planning on running the 2 25' coils in parallel rather than in series, to see if there's any performance boost there.

 

[Captain_Bigelow]

As an update on my quest to find the best chiller for my needs... I made a 25ft CFC and got good results with my first test run. I also had Jeff at NY Brew Supply custom make me a 50ft IC with a 1/2" whirlpooling tube (aka Mr Malty's design). It was actually cheaper to have Jeff make it, than for me to make myself with the current cost of copper in my area.

I intend to boil up some batches of water next weekend and post my findings (may be a video??) of all the different methods and times to chill. I figure I will do the 25ft CFC, my existing 25ft 3/8" IC, the new 50ft 1/2" IC and then the 50ft 1/2"IC using the whirlpooling method/ pump.

 

[Sanspareil]

Prosper,
I thought about doing them in parallel. So I did as much research as I could. As one can expect, not much out there. But, many others smarter than me suggested that liquids follow the path of least resistance. Possibly, not flowing through one of the coils at an optimum rate. Also, the water that initially comes out of my chiller is at near boiling, so I don't think there is any great % gain that can be done to improve that heat transfer at the higher temps. (as I had mentioned it goes from 212 to < 140 f in 1 - 2 minutes.)
The difficulty with any cooling system comes when the temp of the liquid to be cooled nears the temp of the liquid doing the cooling. Here is where I think a parallel coil might shine. The greater the dif in temps the better.
It is crazy that it takes almost 3 times longer to go from 140 to 70's F than it does from 212 to 140 f.
When you get yours done can you break down the times for me? I can always seperate my coils and reconfigure them in parallel if yours shows significant performances.
Thanks

 

[prosper]

I agree, I expect the performance difference to be made at the lower end of the temperature range. As to flow rates - my 3/4" garden hose can supply more water than either one of the parallel loops can handle, so I don't think there'll be much problem getting coolant to flow relatively evenly through both coils.

 

[ScubaSteve]

50' Dual Coil IC, hands down. I can chill 5 gals of wort down to 74 F. in 8 minutes.
Here is a picture of the one I built

This is a great design, as you usually can't immerse all the coils in a 50' IC when doing a 5 gal batch. Clean build, great work!

 

[ScubaSteve]

I've never put any sanitizer in my plate chiller (Therminator). Never even thought of it until now, actually. I do what everyone else does, run boiling wort through it for the last 15 minutes of a boil. Requires a pump in your system.

I guess I figured that's what everyone was doing. I shouldn't have assumed What you describe is essentially the same procedure when using a tube style CFC....I do this with my Chillzilla.

Now you've got me looking a little harder at the plate chillers

 

[Captain_Bigelow]

IC v IC Whirlpool experiment

So I just got my 50ft 1/2" IC from NY Brew Supply. Here it is...

Test 1 I boiled 5 gallons of water and used just the IC (no whirlpool) and here are the results.
Ambient temp: 82
Faucet water: 74
Flow rate: 2 gallons per min
212-140: 4 mins
140-100: 8 mins
100-90: 4 mins (somebody came to my door, so I had to stop the experiment at 90).

Total time 212-90 = 16 mins.

Test 2 same 5 gallons of water using the IC and whirl-pooling arm.
Ambient temp: 82
Faucet water: 74
Flow rate: 2 gallons per min
212-140: 2 mins
140-100: 3 mins
100-80: 5 mins

Total time 212-80 = 10 mins.

Conclusion:
As you can see by whirl-pooling you can get your temperature down a lot faster (almost double). For this test I just used straight faucet water. When I am brewing for real, I would obviously use a pre-chiller and ice bath which will get the wort down to pitching temperatures.

Also the 6 minutes I saved = 12 gallons of saved water. So it works out better for the environment also!

 

[ScubaSteve]

Very nice. This is strong evidence that IC's are underrated. I personally use a CFC for form factor, but really appreciate the simplicity and reliability of an IC. Great Job

 

[patrck17]

Captain:

You can't just switch from asking about chillers to giving data based chiller results in the same thread! Now what are we going to debate about for the next few weeks? O well I guess I'll have to go back to trolling the all grain vs extract threads.

Lol, really though great experiment and results. I do think you should create a different thread highlighting your experiment for newbies to read, just something else to show up on the search.

 

[passedpawn]

Great job on the experiment. Nice, conclusive set of data there.

 

[Captain_Bigelow]

I put everything on one thread because I don't like creating lots of new threads and cluttering everything up.

Anyhow I went a head and transferred the data to a new thread. Any discussion about IC v IC (whirlpooling) please post there.
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f11/ic-v-ic-whirl-pooling-192012/#post2229615

Thanks

 

[SamuraiSquirrel]

50' immersion chiller user here. 10-12 minute chill time in the summer (no whirlpool, just stirring). I can't wait to see the chill time when the water is 40-50 degrees in the winter.

I am sure whirlpooling has the set and forget for ten minutes benefit. But I think you can get nearly the same results if you don't mind stirring for ten minutes or just swirling the chiller around in your wort.