Canner or glycol chiller

[strick88]

If you had to choose between starting to can beers or having a glycol chiller for temp control which would you pick and why? I am looking at getting either the brewbuilt glycol chiller or the cannular top can seamer. Any advice would be great.

 

[Golddiggie]

I have both the IceMaster Max4 and the Cannular Pro seamer. Depending on where you are in the world/country, would determine which would be of more use to you right away. If temperature is a concern year round, get the chiller. If you're someplace with cool/cold months, then the environment can help you out (like where I am in NH). I would advise getting the Cannular Pro over the manual model. I had the 'standard' one initially. Using it we had cans that didn't seal correctly often enough to be a problem. With the Pro, I've not had a single bad seal.

 

[Jag75]

Temp control is more important then Canning.

 

[Golddiggie]

Temp control is more important then Canning.

True, but depending on location, winter could help delay the purchase of the chiller (tax return?) while getting the seamer now. Or the purchases could get flipped.

BTW, if you do get the can seamer, make sure you get the shield for it. Unless you want to get hit by the foam flinging off the can as it spins.

 

[Jag75]

True, but depending on location, winter could help delay the purchase of the chiller (tax return?) while getting the seamer now. Or the purchases could get flipped.

BTW, if you do get the can seamer, make sure you get the shield for it. Unless you want to get hit by the foam flinging off the can as it spins.

Tax return .... what's that lol

Maybe true about where you live but let's look at being able to lager , cold crash ect. When depending on your local weather could fluctuate. Let's say you have a space where the temp stays at say 65 . The room may be 65 but active fermentation will spike the temp of the beer possibly to high. So weather and location does help , but temp control doesn't depend on weather and is more reliable.

Also I might add to the conversation of what the budget is here . I built my glycol chiller for cheap . It's over 2 yrs old and running strong. You could possibly diy chiller and buy canner and be very close to budget .

 

[The_Antikveik]

Canning home brew reminds me of bottling days with a lot more hassle and waste. Unless you need a glycol chiller, which is much more useful than a canner, I’d say package home brew in kegs.

 

[Golddiggie]

Canning home brew reminds me of bottling days with a lot more hassle and waste. Unless you need a glycol chiller, which is much more useful than a canner, I’d say package home brew in kegs.

I never liked bottling. I fill a small keg (2-1/2 or 3 gallon) of each batch and can the rest for others to take with them. Since I carbonate in conical, canning off that is easy. Especially with the right equipment.

 

[jerrylotto]

It depends a lot on what gear you own and how you control temperature now. If a glycol chiller would improve your accuracy, stability or cooling time, that would be the choice I would make.. I built keezers in which I ferment and lager - glycol has no place in my process.

 

[superiorsat]

I've built 2 one ton glycol chillers for super cheap but I would have no way to build a can seamer so I would have to buy that item. I say get the seamer and DIY a chiller.

 

[JAReeves]

I've built 2 one ton glycol chillers for super cheap but I would have no way to build a can seamer so I would have to buy that item. I say get the seamer and DIY a chiller.

This^^

I built a 10,000 btu glycol chiller from an A/C unit and beer cooler. Works great and cost about $450 including the cooling systems for the 3 5G fermenters that are pumped through it. I'd buy the canner if you really want to can vs. bottle or keg.

 

[OLBrews]

It would be helpful to know a bit about your current process/brewing equipment to assess. If, for instance, a glycol chiller would allow you to introduce temperature control for the first time it would be my preference.

In my case, I already had temperature control via old refrigerators with Inkbird controllers and pressure fermentation in used kegs. A glycol chiller and stainless fermenters would be cool to look at, but would not fundamentally change the quality of my beer. A canner, on the other hand, makes it far easier to give away my brews and has that wow factor. I went with the Oktober SL1 and have zero regrets.

 

[The_Antikveik]

I never liked bottling. I fill a small keg (2-1/2 or 3 gallon) of each batch and can the rest for others to take with them. Since I carbonate in conical, canning off that is easy. Especially with the right equipment.

I’ve always used a beergun and bottles for handouts. I don’t think I’ll ever buy into canning home brew.

 

[Golddiggie]

I’ve always used a beergun and bottles for handouts. I don’t think I’ll ever buy into canning home brew.

I started with the original beergun for filling bottles from keg (as needed). I still use it to bottle mead (not carbonated). But, for canning I'm using the Tapcooler counterpressure can filling setup. They missed a few marks on their redesign. Namely NOT having an option where you can mount it on a table like you could with the previous design. I had to make mounting hardware to get it to work on my wire mesh cart. I have it right next to the Cannular Pro to seal the cans once filled.

IME, the Tapcooler and Cannular Pro are as easy to use as a beergun and cap crimping item. Especially if you start off with carbonated beer/product.

I have a batch that I plan to keg and can some night this week (or Saturday morning if I can't get to it before then).

 

[JAReeves]

I started with the original beergun for filling bottles from keg (as needed). I still use it to bottle mead (not carbonated). But, for canning I'm using the Tapcooler counterpressure can filling setup. They missed a few marks on their redesign. Namely NOT having an option where you can mount it on a table like you could with the previous design. I had to make mounting hardware to get it to work on my wire mesh cart. I have it right next to the Cannular Pro to seal the cans once filled.

IME, the Tapcooler and Cannular Pro are as easy to use as a beergun and cap crimping item. Especially if you start off with carbonated beer/product.

I have a batch that I plan to keg and can some night this week (or Saturday morning if I can't get to it before then).

I would love to see your setup, if you don't mind posting a picture of the filler/canner production line.

 

[Jag75]

For those of you that can , is there a technique to getting the can full and staying hard? My aunt got a canner a couple years ago and we tried it out . It seemed like the cans were plyable once filled , kind of squishy.

 

[strick88]

It would be helpful to know a bit about your current process/brewing equipment to assess. If, for instance, a glycol chiller would allow you to introduce temperature control for the first time it would be my preference.

In my case, I already had temperature control via old refrigerators with Inkbird controllers and pressure fermentation in used kegs. A glycol chiller and stainless fermenters would be cool to look at, but would not fundamentally change the quality of my beer. A canner, on the other hand, makes it far easier to give away my brews and has that wow factor. I went with the Oktober SL1 and have zero regrets.

so I have yet to have any temp control for fermentation. Best I was able to do is hope and pray the house didn’t get warm.

 

[Golddiggie]

@JAReeves Here's some pictures I just took... I don't have the Tapcooler installed in the can holder in the pictures. Otherwise, it's pretty much as I use it. I do have a container at the back of the cart that I put Starsan in and then put the cans to be filled into to sanitize them before filling. I use another container for the lids. Has worked out very well to date.


I made the item that the Tapcooler can holder is mounted to (use four screws, not the two in the pic) as well as the base (last image). The base works a hell of a lot better than what they sold for the previous generation setup. It also was easier to make than the first one I made. I bought the medium duty clamp you see in the pictures too (blue) since the one that came with the first gen hardware was flimsy. I like being able to raise/lower the setup since it makes it easier to fill. Plus the can is on the base when being filled. Makes it better as far as overflow.

@Jag75 I carbonate in conical to a bit higher than I serve the beers at. Since there's a slight loss of CO2 in the process. Using the counterpressure setup also helps a lot. I set the pressure relief to open up about 1-2psi below the conical pressure level. This has two benefits. First it keeps the beer going into the can at a pressure closer to what's desired. Second it makes the flow more controlled/slower to get a better fill. I just have to watch the fill level to make sure I stop it in time (to prevent high fill levels). I try to leave just enough of a gap so that the cans float when placed into the tote filled with water. That also helps to clean the foam/overflow off the cans.

 

[Golddiggie]

so I have yet to have any temp control for fermentation. Best I was able to do is hope and pray the house didn’t get warm.

That's another reason I ferment in the basement. Cooler than the rest of the house year round.

 

[JAReeves]

In SoCal, fermentation control is crucial and I didn't have room for another refrigerator/freezer. So I kicked around the bar fridge-fermentation box idea, but ultimately settled on the A/C unit glycol chiller as the most economical and utilitarian for the space I have.

 

[Golddiggie]

I had a fermentation chamber for when I was using kegmenters. Part of the reason I switched to conical fermenters was ease of movement. The chamber was large, to handle a few batches (plus the mini fridge). I'm space limited in the basement I have currently. With the glycol chiller in a corner now, and the conicals placed where needed, I have more room to move around in the basement.
I had made the fermentation chamber with the end (opposite the fridge) on hinges as well as the top with gas springs to keep it open (for the top/lid). That made it easier to get full fermenters into it. Once they went in, they left after being emptied.
One advise I would give, for a glycol chiller, get something larger than you think you'll need (right now). Make sure you factor in the room temperature into your choice as well. Performance will be different for a room even 10F warmer.

 

[Jayjay1976]

Canning sounds like a nightmare. Bottles are at least reusable and don't require special equipment to close. If you make friends with a local pub that serves a lot of bottled beer, you have a nearly endless supply of free bottles. Cans are $$$ and cost a lot to ship and take up a lot of space to store. I would rather slam my junk in a car door than accept a free canner. Yikes.

Edit: also, there is the perception that better quality craft beer comes in bottles, cans are for cheaper/crappier beers. Change my mind.

 

[Velnerj]

I'm with @Jayjay1976 canning homebrew seems like a hassle and a waste of time/resources. Unlike bottling cans aren't reusable and create waste and extra costs (bottles are practically free).

I would understand if you're pumping out a huge volume and shipping it across the country as cans weigh significantly less than bottles. But otherwise canning looks like a novelty that would lose its luster pretty fast.

Since OP doesn't currently have temp control glycol looks like a good plan.

 

[Golddiggie]

I'm with @Jayjay1976 canning homebrew seems like a hassle and a waste of time/resources. Unlike bottling cans aren't reusable and create waste and extra costs (bottles are practically free).

I would understand if you're pumping out a huge volume and shipping it across the country as cans weigh significantly less than bottles. But otherwise canning looks like a novelty that would lose its luster pretty fast.

Since OP doesn't currently have temp control glycol looks like a good plan.

NOT needing to clean bottles is not a minor aspect IMO. Storing cans (empty or full) is also far easier than bottles. When I started brewing I had horrible luck getting caps to crimp onto bottles. To the point where I ditched that type completely and went to the swing tops (NOT cheap). I still have a few of those IF I want to use them for some strange reason.
Another aspect of cans is you don't care about getting them back.
Not to mention how the better can seamers have a more positive seal than bottles (pretty much zero chance of leaking if done right).
I have the 500ml cans that are for all my 'low' ABV brews (under 7-8%). I also have some 12oz cans for bigger beers. Of course, I can use the larger for everything if I wanted to.
IF you're not getting your bottles "for free" and want to get new ones, supply can be spotty. The LHBS I go to has had issues getting bottles in. They have some in stock, that move slower. But beer bottles seem to be hard to be more difficult to get. Hell, even bottles I wanted to package some mead I had ready wasn't easy. I had to order them online which involved shipping costs.
With how many breweries are shifting away from bottles, to cans, I don't see this as a novelty item. As I mentioned, I'm having far better results with cans than I ever did with bottles.

 

[matt_m]

I could could certainly get away without a canner and probably get away without a chiller. The chiller provides a lot of utility though in keeping more constant fermentation temps and the ability to cold crash and carbonate in the fermenter. I don't miss washing bottles and don't find canning to be any easier or harder than bottling. Like @Golddiggie said, they are more efficient to store and I quite enjoy giving friends 4 packs.

 

[Golddiggie]

The good friends that come up for cans of homebrew also bring the rings back, plus more. I currently have more on hand than I've bought. Even with giving them out with cans of brew.

 

[Wayne1]

I have both a glycol system and the cannular seamer. The glycol system is critical to my brewing process. The seamer is a nice toy.

I picked up a used, long draw, tap line glycol chiller for $150.00 that was being used by a kombucha company to cool their fermenter. They upgraded and I bought the old one. I use it with 3) Inkbird ITF-308 WIFI controllers and some 120 volt solenoids. My fermenters are Kegland Fermzilla with the cooling coils I have 2) 27 L and 1) 55L I also have a Keg King 35L Unitank. The small glycol system can control 3) fermenters perfectly.

 

[kartracer2]

My opinion is that my beer would improve with better temp control. A different package (keg,can,bottle) won't make my beer any better than what it is now. Can't make a silk purse with a sow's ear, so to speak.
Add to that, the state of flux the can market is in with Ball's policy changes would help me make a decision right now also.
Just my 0.02 worth.
Cheers,
Joel B.

 

[matt_m]

Add to that, the state of flux the can market is in with Ball's policy changes would help me make a decision right now also.

Well, I don't think any of us are ordering pre-printed pallets of cans so maybe out of the woods there. But that said, I ordered $160 worth of cans to be safe and should be good for a hot minute.

 

[Golddiggie]

Well, I don't think any of us are ordering pre-printed pallets of cans so maybe out of the woods there. But that said, I ordered $160 worth of cans to be safe and should be good for a hot minute.

Between the first case of 500ml cans I ordered and when I needed to order more, they went up about $30. So I ordered two cases to be sure I wouldn't have to worry about getting them again too soon (if the prices went up more). Hopefully by the time I need more of those the price will either be the same I paid on the second order, or closer to the first order.

 

[matt_m]

I'm under 3 hours from Oktober so I couldn't get shipping much cheaper but I paid about $100 shipped for 192 16oz cans early last fall and bought 2 more cases for the same price around the holidays. I bought a stack of 4-pack holders but also asked friends to save them and am getting as many back as I give out even though some of the beer is traveling out of state. If I get 6 pack holders I trim off 2 and add the remaining 4 to the stack.

 

[Golddiggie]

I'm under 3 hours from Oktober so I couldn't get shipping much cheaper but I paid about $100 shipped for 192 16oz cans early last fall and bought 2 more cases for the same price around the holidays. I bought a stack of 4-pack holders but also asked friends to save them and am getting as many back as I give out even though some of the beer is traveling out of state. If I get 6 pack holders I trim off 2 and add the remaining 4 to the stack.

Not bad on the pricing, even shipping to NH. I'll keep them in mind for when I need more cans.

 

[WesBrew]

I’d go for the glycol chiller. Fermentation control, set it and forget it and it’s pretty much a one time expense. Canning sounds really cool but I’d wait until I had the brewing running the way i want it

 

[OLBrews]

For those of you that can , is there a technique to getting the can full and staying hard? My aunt got a canner a couple years ago and we tried it out . It seemed like the cans were plyable once filled , kind of squishy.

Some suggestions for can filling:

• Cap on foam
• I found I would lose some volume in the transfer to the canner, even using a gentle squeeze. I now keep one finger on the cap pressing down, then tilt the can so I can get my second hand under it. That way, I can transfer from the fulling station to the canner without any pressure on the sides.
• Give can conditioning a go – just leave about ½ inch clearance at the top and add your priming sugar. Nice part about cans is that you can tell when they firm up that they are ready to go.

 

[sicktght311]

Another vote for building a Glycol chiller, and buying a seamer. I built my glycol chiller for probably $150 at most and it works fantastically well for 2x 7gallon Chronicals. Bought an Oktober SL1 with the funds i saved

 

[Gus_13]

I'm personally going for Glycol first. I live in MS. We have like 4-6 weeks of cool weather then everything else needs to be temp controlled. I have keezers now but moving to a larger conical and want to temp control it so Glycol is my obvious choice. But then after that, I'll definitely be eyeing a can seamer to have for sharing beers.

 

[davidabcd]

Without further info, I'd get the chiller. Last time I checked canning out, the cost was up there for supplies and the waste doesn't thrill me.

 

[pinemarten]

I have an IceMaster 100 and a Cannular. The Cannular is very cool. The IceMaster has become my favorite thing in the brewery. If you ferment outside of a fridge or freezer and often have more than one beer fermenting at a time it’s a massive convenience.