Can you spot the ground fault?

[KramE]

Hey all,

I'm rebuilding my ebiab system. I moved from a 240v 5500w to a single 120v 2000w with stove top assist.

My ground fault circuit is tripping the second I touch the power cord to the outlet. I can plug other electronics into the outlet without issue, which tells me the gfic is working.

There are only two points of wiring; the element and the plug. Here are pictures of both.


IMAG0584 by M. A. E., on Flickr

and


IMAG0585 by M. A. E., on Flickr


IMAG0586 by M. A. E., on Flickr

Of Note, The ground is secured between the outlet box back plate and the flange. I have also tried reversing the ground and the neutral.

I do not know if the 2000w element has a positive or a negative terminal, there was nothing marked or noted in the product info page.

Please advise!

Mark

 

[MrNatural]

What is breaker rated at? 2000W would stress 15A breaker.

 

[KramE]

The breaker is 20 amp. It's the GFIC that is tripping, not the breaker. Perhaps I wired the outlet incorrectly?

 

[KegWrangler]

Not seeing anything obvious yet...

Could it be that the outlet is only rated for 15A?

Does the outlet openings have a horizontal slit in the middle of one of the two vertical slits?

 

[KramE]

It does. I updated the OP for a picture of the outlet and the box

 

[Barnesie]

the simplicity of the plug would almost have to dictate that the fault is around the element, no?

 

[AnOldUR]

GFCI Outlet Tester

 

[FourSeasonAngler]

Is your element or the base of the element touching metal?

 

[LandoLincoln]

I notice that your pot is sitting on an electric stove...I don't know...try moving it to the counter and see if it still trips.

 

[KegWrangler]

Might be a nick in the insulation near one of the ends of the romac?

Maybe try disconnecting from the heater element (insulating/isolating the ends to avoid contact) and try plugging in with no load to reduce the search area?

 

[Reelale]

If there is a gasket between your element and the box you are grounding to, you do not have the element grounded.

 

[passedpawn]

In order for the GFCI to trip, current must be getting to the earth ground (green).

For that to happen, there just be a short between that earth ground (green) and one of the other two wires (black and white). If you have an ohm meter, look fo that short. It's also possible that the short is in the element, so test with the element detached too.

 

[KramE]

The element is secured via the Kal method. The only change is the addition of a washer on the inside of the kettle to prevent further damage to the kettle wall.

 

[KramE]

Okay, now I am slightly worried. I moved it off the stove, and it worked. I moved it back on the stove, it worked.

How often do these problems fix themselves?

 

[AnOldUR]

Are you using rigid romex cable as a cord?

Could be the bending has created a short.

 

[alien]

My advice would be to rewire with stranded cable instead of Romex. Solid wire is not suitable for stuff that gets moved around.

 

[passedpawn]

Okay, now I am slightly worried. I moved it off the stove, and it worked. I moved it back on the stove, it worked.

How often do these problems fix themselves?

Hmmm. Flakey is only good with pie crusts.

It's really hard to fix a problem that isn't repeatable. As a minimum attempt to make things right, I'd replace that piece of romex there. There's not much else you can do now.

Just make certain that all metal that you can touch, and all metal that touches the wort, is tied to the earth ground wire somehow. This is how your breaker and the GFCI will save you.

 

[KramE]

Thank you all for your help. I I'm going to ditch the romex cable and start there. If I don't post within the next week, I should have called an electrician!

 

[TheModestMeader]

on my kettle I over tighten the collar going into the box and crushed the insulation on one of the power lines which then touch the ground making it dump straight to ground.

 

[KramE]

Hmmm. Flakey is only good with pie crusts.

Love it

 

[BadNewsBrewery]

Here are a few suggestions:
It looks like the ring terminal on the bottom in your photo of the element may be touching the j-box. Try throwing some electrical tape on there.

If you have a multi-meter, put it into OHM mode, touch one end to the ground on your plug end, touch the other end to one of the other legs. If you see current, you know you have a short somewhere in that line.

Unscrew the rings from the element and secure them so that they're not touching anything (wrap in electrical tape to be safe). Plug in the system. Does it trip? If yes - you have a short in the wiring or the plug. If no, the problem is in the element or the connection method.

Plug something that you know works into the outlet. Does it trip? If yes - there's something wrong with the outlet. If no, you know it's in your wiring.

Doing the above should help to narrow it down to at least the portion of your setup that's faulty.

EDIT - I missed that there was a Page 2. Romex is definitely not good. Electrical problems don't heal themselves. By moving it, you just shifted whatever short you had so that it's not touching. The new stranded cable should eliminate any problem that may have existed in the Romex. Be careful with the rings when you put it back together and you'll be golden.

 

[thadius856]

Hmmm. Flakey is only good with pie crusts.

And biscuits.

 

[processhead]

In order for the GFCI to trip, current must be getting to the earth ground (green).

For that to happen, there just be a short between that earth ground (green) and one of the other two wires (black and white). If you have an ohm meter, look fo that short. It's also possible that the short is in the element, so test with the element detached too.

+1

A multi-meter is your friend, and will help you find problems that you would not otherwise see with your eyes.

Agree with replacement of the romex as well.

Rule out the obvious things first.

If you continue to have problems only when the kettle is setting on your stove, you may have a grounding issue with the range.

 

[KramE]

Just a quick follow up, I'm still not dead.

I went out to the local HD and picked up an appropriate power cord and an Ohm meter to play around on.

I should be ready to brewagain by next week. Woo.

 

[papajess]

In order for the GFCI to trip, current must be getting to the earth ground (green).

For that to happen, there just be a short between that earth ground (green) and one of the other two wires (black and white). If you have an ohm meter, look fo that short. It's also possible that the short is in the element, so test with the element detached too.

That's somewhat right. It doesn't mean the current is going to the ground it mean you have current going somewhere you don't want it. If current was going to ground than your breaker should trip. Gfcis trip because they measure the current going out and back to the outlet. So if you have 10 amps going out and 9 amps coming back than it trips.

 

[jesserizzo]

That's somewhat right. It doesn't mean the current is going to the ground it mean you have current going somewhere you don't want it. If current was going to ground than your breaker should trip. Gfcis trip because they measure the current going out and back to the outlet. So if you have 10 amps going out and 9 amps coming back than it trips.

If the current is not returning through the neutral than it is necessarily going to ground. And GFCIs are quite a bit better than your example. If 10 amps goes out and 9.995 amps comes back in, it will trip.

 

[passedpawn]

If the current is not returning through the neutral than it is necessarily going to ground. And GFCIs are quite a bit better than your example. If 10 amps goes out and 9.995 amps comes back in, it will trip.

Yes and yes and thanks. If you had a direct short to ground the GFCI would trip, it's far after than the breaker. I think.